NFL 2016: Playoffs: Super Bowl LI

garion333 wrote:

Fwiw, Mort did attempt 84 FGs over 50 yds, while Lowery attempted half during his career.

See, almost all of the arguments for Andersen involve stat accumulation. Having the most of everything because he played for a quarter of a decade.

And yes, he did attempt 50+ more often than other kickers of the time on a year-to-year basis, not just in career totals. But is that enough? Ehh.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Fwiw, Mort did attempt 84 FGs over 50 yds, while Lowery attempted half during his career.

See, almost all of the arguments for Andersen involve stat accumulation. Having the most of everything because he played for a quarter of a decade.

And yes, he did attempt 50+ more often than other kickers of the time on a year-to-year basis, not just in career totals. But is that enough? Ehh.

Sorry, I wasn't attempting to argue in favor or stat accumulation as anything other than longevity, but that he made a decent percent of long kicks and kicked a lot of attempts, while Lowery didn't.

Rat Boy wrote:

Alex Mack has a fractured fibula. Hopefully for Atlanta this isn't a bad omen a la Eugene Robinson's little legal kerfuffle the night before Super Bowl XXXIII.

Mack has been injured for a couple of weeks. Unless it got significantly worse during the past two weeks, I expect it's something of a nonissue as he played through at least the last playoff game with the injury.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Fwiw, Mort did attempt 84 FGs over 50 yds, while Lowery attempted half during his career.

See, almost all of the arguments for Andersen involve stat accumulation. Having the most of everything because he played for a quarter of a decade.

And yes, he did attempt 50+ more often than other kickers of the time on a year-to-year basis, not just in career totals. But is that enough? Ehh.

You (a generic you; not a specific you) can't argue that Terrell Davis shouldn't be in the HoF because his career wasn't long enough and argue that the NFL's career leader in games played, field goals made and points scored shouldn't be in the HoF because his career was so long.

Of course, this is the same group of voters who put TD, Kurt Warner, a kicker and daggone Jerry Jones in ahead of TO, so what the hell do I know?

Enix wrote:

You (a generic you; not a specific you) can't argue that Terrell Davis shouldn't be in the HoF because his career wasn't long enough and argue that the NFL's career leader in games played, field goals made and points scored shouldn't be in the HoF because his career was so long.

It's not the length of Andersen's career that's the issue per se, it's that length is just about the only thing going for it. There is almost no section of that career in which Andersen was the clear dominant player at his position. He's one of those players getting in on the back of a bunch of Pro Bowls that he earned for being a more recognized name than others.

He had 2 years at the early point of his career - 85 and 86 - where he was probably the league's top kicker. He ranked #2 and #1 in FG% in those years, and went to the Pro Bowl, deservingly, those seasons. Then his accuracy dropped off and he kept going to Pro Bowls. He dropped to 72% (14th in the league) in 1988 and still was the Pro Bowl pick. Never mind Eddie Murray kicked 95.2% that year, Andersen was the NFC's Pro Bowl kicker.

A long career with a clear dominant peak somewhere in there is good. But where is Andersen's peak? Just those 2 early years? As I pointed out, he rarely finished in the top 5 of kickers in field goal percentage. When Ray Guy went in, it was easy to point to him being in the top 5 in net punt yardage 10 times in a 14 year career. With Andersen, all I see is, "he eventually scored the most points" and "he kicked a lot of 50+ yarders". The former does not move me at all, and the latter just isn't enough.

*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:

You (a generic you; not a specific you) can't argue that Terrell Davis shouldn't be in the HoF because his career wasn't long enough and argue that the NFL's career leader in games played, field goals made and points scored shouldn't be in the HoF because his career was so long.

It's not the length of Andersen's career that's the issue per se, it's that length is just about the only thing going for it. There is almost no section of that career in which Andersen was the clear dominant player at his position. He's one of those players getting in on the back of a bunch of Pro Bowls that he earned for being a more recognized name than others.

He had 2 years at the early point of his career - 85 and 86 - where he was probably the league's top kicker. He ranked #2 and #1 in FG% in those years, and went to the Pro Bowl, deservingly, those seasons. Then his accuracy dropped off and he kept going to Pro Bowls. He dropped to 72% (14th in the league) in 1988 and still was the Pro Bowl pick. Never mind Eddie Murray kicked 95.2% that year, Andersen was the NFC's Pro Bowl kicker.

A long career with a clear dominant peak somewhere in there is good. But where is Andersen's peak? Just those 2 early years? As I pointed out, he rarely finished in the top 5 of kickers in field goal percentage. When Ray Guy went in, it was easy to point to him being in the top 5 in net punt yardage 10 times in a 14 year career. With Andersen, all I see is, "he eventually scored the most points" and "he kicked a lot of 50+ yarders". The former does not move me at all, and the latter just isn't enough.

I agree with everything about this post, except for the fact you neglected to make a Jerome Bettis or Art Monk joke in the process.

iamdisappoint.jpg

*Legion* wrote:

It's not the length of Andersen's career that's the issue per se, it's that length is just about the only thing going for it. ...

That, and the fact that he's the league's leading all-time scorer. Those field goals didn't kick themselves!

If you're trying to find any consistency in HoF picks, especially this year, you'll make yourself nuts.

Enix wrote:

That, and the fact that he's the league's leading all-time scorer. Those field goals didn't kick themselves!

Sure, but that's largely a function of how long he played. Guess how many of those 25 individual seasons he led the league in scoring in?

Spoiler:

Zero.

If you're trying to find any consistency in HoF picks, especially this year, you'll make yourself nuts.

Well there's consistency in that they drive me nuts every year.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I agree with everything about this post, except for the fact you neglected to make a Jerome Bettis or Art Monk joke in the process.

iamdisappoint.jpg

You're right, I'm sorry. It's the kind of joke that needs to be made repeatedly over a long period of time for it to really make an impact.

Is there an actual game today or are we skipping straight to off season kicker talk?

Since when did The Elder Scrolls get robots?

Rat Boy wrote:

Since when did The Elder Scrolls get robots?

They always have but the dwarves disappeared and so did upkeep on their creations.

Something like that.

I'm so uninterested in this game. Could be the new baby lack of sleep though.

Welp, here comes the outrage.

I'm watching the game with 2 Trump supporters. Wheeeeeee!

Top_Shelf wrote:

I'm watching the game with 2 Trump supporters. Wheeeeeee!

How awkward can it be? It's not like Mike Pence was there to witness the Hamilton cast's ad lib.

Who had more sacks than points at the end of the 1st Quarter?

It's a great Super Bowl so far if you love coverage sacks.

So far this has been an awful year for commercials.

The refs totally missed that late hit by that one kid on Cam.

Julio took over for a second.

Atlanta's defense isn't complicated here. They're in man coverage every play and going to force the WRs to beat their defenders. No zones for Brady to pick apart, no disguises that he'll see right through.

New England is running their man-beater drag routes but Atlanta is tackling cleanly, not allowing YAC.

Maybe it's because last year's X-Files soured me, but I have zero interest in more 24.

They have been doubling/bracketing Julio most pass plays, but not that sideline throw.

...methinks the crowd's mainly on New England's side. Or Fox has crappy audio.

Nobody has come back from 11 or more. Safe to turn off?

Rat Boy wrote:

...methinks the crowd's mainly on New England's side. Or Fox has crappy audio.

I'm hearing the opposite. Pro ATL crowd?

Top_Shelf wrote:

Nobody has come back from 11 or more. Safe to turn off?

10 was the number I saw in my Twitter timeline.

Top_Shelf wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

...methinks the crowd's mainly on New England's side. Or Fox has crappy audio.

I'm hearing the opposite. Pro ATL crowd?

It sounded to me rather quiet after the TD catch.

I'm okay with the current score.

*Legion* wrote:

Atlanta's defense isn't complicated here. They're in man coverage every play and going to force the WRs to beat their defenders. No zones for Brady to pick apart, no disguises that he'll see right through.

New England is running their man-beater drag routes but Atlanta is tackling cleanly, not allowing YAC.

Perfect for Beasley to get enough time to mess with Brady. Pretty good gameplan that.

I'm curious how second half will play out as adjustments are everything.

To continue my annual Halftime smoke out or watch to see what Lady Gaga will do that'll be memed the crap out of for the next year...