GWJ Conference Call Episode 536

Nier Automata Demo, Ultima VII, ASTRONEER, Minecraft Story Mode, Nintendo Switch Thoughts, 2017 Games We're Looking Forward To, Your Emails and More!

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This week Shawn, Cory, Julian and Amanda talk about the fresh Nintendo Switch announcements and some of their most anticipated 2017 games!

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind.

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Asking Questions - Echoside - http://echosidetracks.bandcamp.com/ - 29:26

Riding High - Echoside - http://echosidetracks.bandcamp.com/ - 56:14

Comments

I forgot to link to Kate's Video Dames podcast talking about Overwatch. Here is it!

Certis wrote:

I forgot to link to Kate's Video Dames podcast talking about Overwatch. Here is it!

Bless.

Ok it didn't end up releasing last year, and it's still one of my most anticipated, so I'll just re-up last year's post with a new video link

Mermaidpirate wrote:

Maybe this is spoilers for 'that goty I never saw coming' but I think Fortnite was robbed for anticipated stuff this year. It doesn't have any official timetable but man, it seems pretty far along. It's in closed "alpha" which is very much playable, the visuals are no 'programmer's art' and they are adding polish all the time.

I'm in the alpha so I'll keep my comments to things you could gather from the development videos they've released. The fort building mechanics are really robust, lots of shapes and combinations to make. Who doesn't like building a little fort and letting enemies smash against it?

l think it could be a big game because it's got a younger-friendly theme without being as childish as something like Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare (although the trailer for the PvZ sequel did wow me). Something parents and children could play together.

They've committed to the updates via livestream thing. I love the intro of the latest one. AFAIK that's the foyer of the main Epic office.

https://www.twitch.tv/fortnitegame/v...

In this update video you see new character art IIRC, a new blueprint mini-challenge to show players how to build fancy shapes, the work-in-progress block party mode, and some regular gameplay.

B Dog wrote:
EvilDead wrote:
MrB0ssMan wrote:
B Dog wrote:
EvilDead wrote:

Weird, this episode isn't showing up on my podcast player. Overcast on iOS.

Same here. Not in my feed. I'm also using Overcast.

I'm having the same issue with Sticher Radio.

Just checking my list of podcasts this is also the only show, out of 10, where show descriptions don't show up under the episode number. I think it has always been that way on Overcast. I wonder if there is a syntax issue that is now affecting the new release. Hopefully they respond to Certis's tweet soon.

Huh. Never noticed that before, but you're right.

Adding my data point, that I did not get episode 536 appearing in the iOS Overcast app either. I deleted the feed, then re-added it, same result. The other episodes are still there, but not the newest one. I checked in the Apple Podcast app, and I could see episode 536 there.

Concerning the description, yeah, there's never been a truncated episode description that appears with the title of the episode (in GWJ's case, just the episode number), but if you clicked the info button, the full description would pop up.

Folks having issues with the podcast feed, I think I found the issue. Earlier this week I deployed a fix to the feed generator because it was frequently timing out when attempting to get the length of the MP3 from Libsyn. I flipped the mime-type and length values in that fix, though, so the enclosure tag values on the feed were messed up. I think it should be resolved now!

And it just appeared in my feed. Thanks, doogiemac!

I'm don't know if Nintendo should exit hardware completely and go to mobile like Cory said, but there is a huge untapped market I believe that they're missing.

Their handhelds are largely a youth market. But their software is tons of legacy titles that everyone played as a kid and then grew out of (mostly). But imagine what they could do if they released their software with mass market appeal! Look at how the nostalgia ran rampant with the NES Classic this past holiday. If they made a Zelda or Mario or Metroid game on PS4 or Bone they'd sell like crazy!

I just don't think they Switch will have any staying power, and while I know N makes profitable hardware from day one, they're not going to have a revolutionary super-gimmick like they did with the Wii again.

Minotaar wrote:

If they made a Zelda or Mario or Metroid game on PS4 or Bone they'd sell like crazy!

I've said it plenty before, but I honestly think this is the opposite of truth. I imagine that anyone that claims they'd buy a Nintendo game if it were on PS4 or Xbox One would actually not buy such games in favor of the more stereotypical core gamer type of title. The proof is in the hardware owned. If you really do care about Nintendo's titles, then you will own that system. If all those third party core games mean more to you than anything Nintendo offers, then hardware doesn't actually matter. At best you'd pick the games up on a Flash sale or PS+/Live Gold or a Steam Sale and never touch them like so much other pile games people own.

Perhaps this is me being pessimistic, but there's a pretty big difference between "Oh that looks cool, I'd like to play that" and "where can I pre-order?". And those looking to pre-order, such as myself, have a Switch secured already.

There's also the matter of Pokemon GO influencing 3DS and Pokemon core game sales, and I've seen plenty of accounts of parents with children previously disinterested in or ignorant of Mario suddenly developing an interest after Mario Run.

Nintendo's mobile titles are as third party as they need to go to create interest in their properties, and thus their systems.

I respectfully disagree. I think there's a solid market of people who enjoy Nintendo titles and would certainly play them but aren't willing to commit to a whole other system.

Also, if they'd start to publish for an older, mass market audience they might expand their brands to fit that demographic. A slightly more mature Metroid or Zelda title, per se. That would draw in the Nintendo crowd that's grown up and out of their products.

Minotaar wrote:

Also, if they'd start to publish for an older, mass market audience they might expand their brands to fit that demographic. A slightly more mature Metroid or Zelda title, per se. That would draw in the Nintendo crowd that's grown up and out of their products.

Oh now this is where I greatly disagree. The games industry is filled to the brim with M-rated games. It's the exact opposite problem of Hollywood, which caters to the PG-13 rating in order to get more seats in theaters. I like the idea of being able to play a Zelda or Metroid in front of my nieces or nephews without worrying about blood or language. Let them be T at the most, because there's no shortage of M-rated bloodiness out there. Want a bloody Zelda game? Play Darksiders. But I like the fact that I was able to gift my niece Twilight Princess for Christmas at the age of 11.

I mean really, think about it. When we were younger we had Mario and all, yeah, but we also had the stuff that was more mature without being bloody or filled with foul language. We got to grow up with a variety. Without Nintendo, what do kids have outside of LEGO and Minecraft?

ccesarano wrote:
Minotaar wrote:

If they made a Zelda or Mario or Metroid game on PS4 or Bone they'd sell like crazy!

I've said it plenty before, but I honestly think this is the opposite of truth. I imagine that anyone that claims they'd buy a Nintendo game if it were on PS4 or Xbox One would actually not buy such games in favor of the more stereotypical core gamer type of title. The proof is in the hardware owned. If you really do care about Nintendo's titles, then you will own that system. If all those third party core games mean more to you than anything Nintendo offers, then hardware doesn't actually matter. At best you'd pick the games up on a Flash sale or PS+/Live Gold or a Steam Sale and never touch them like so much other pile games people own.

Perhaps this is me being pessimistic, but there's a pretty big difference between "Oh that looks cool, I'd like to play that" and "where can I pre-order?". And those looking to pre-order, such as myself, have a Switch secured already.

There's also the matter of Pokemon GO influencing 3DS and Pokemon core game sales, and I've seen plenty of accounts of parents with children previously disinterested in or ignorant of Mario suddenly developing an interest after Mario Run.

Nintendo's mobile titles are as third party as they need to go to create interest in their properties, and thus their systems.

I'm going to respectfully disagree here,

Basically you're saying that the only people who are truly willing to buy Nintendo games are willing to pay $300 for the ability to spend $60 later. This doesn't take into account the people who can only buy one system and who like both mainstream AAA titles as well as, say, Mario games. As someone who likes both Doom and Mario Kart, if I had to pick one system I would choose to buy the one that can play Doom, because the available library is larger and more diverse (and also includes the ability to play Mario Kart knockoffs). I can live without Mario if I can play Doom, Rocket League, Metal Gear Solid V, Shadow of Mordor, etc. I wouldn't be as happy having access to Mario, Zelda and a collection of motion mini games at the expense of those previously mentioned titles.

I can afford two systems. Some people can't, and to those people the value proposition just isn't there if they like more than just Nintendo games.

Maybe the switch will have such amazing third party support that that argument is rendered invalid, though I doubt that Doom will be a priority port. Maybe everything will port to Switch, PC, PS4 and XBox1 and the prospect of owning one system won't come down to whether you prefer Mario or Master Chief. But right now, if I didn't have to own a Nintendo system to play Nintendo games, I wouldn't buy one. I'd still buy Zelda, if it were available elsewhere, for economic reasons. It's economically unsound to pay $300 if I don't have to. (For certain definitions of "have to.")

Nintendo's exclusivity model exists to sell hardware, and it's likely Nintendo don't think they could make enough money in software sales to make up for the lost hardware sales if people could play Mario games on a PlayStation. That's a perfectly valid business position, but it's also a valid consumer position to say that playing this generation's Mario game is worth $60 but not worth $300 for new hardware on top of the price of the game, especially if that consumer only wants Mario but doesn't care about, say, 1-2 Switch or Zelda. Nintendo is, deliberately or not, saying they only want money from hardcore Nintendo fans and people affluent enough to buy an extra system just to access the Nintendo portfolio as well as Sony's and/or Microsoft's.

B Dog wrote:

And it just appeared in my feed. Thanks, doogiemac! :)

I can confirm that it now appears in my feed in Overcast as well. Thanks!

ccesarano wrote:

Oh now this is where I greatly disagree. The games industry is filled to the brim with M-rated games. It's the exact opposite problem of Hollywood, which caters to the PG-13 rating in order to get more seats in theaters. I like the idea of being able to play a Zelda or Metroid in front of my nieces or nephews without worrying about blood or language. Let them be T at the most, because there's no shortage of M-rated bloodiness out there. Want a bloody Zelda game? Play Darksiders. But I like the fact that I was able to gift my niece Twilight Princess for Christmas at the age of 11.

I 100% agree with this statement. There is an overabundance of M-rated fare and not nearly enough family friendly games I can play in front of my kids without reservation.

ccesarano wrote:

I've said it plenty before, but I honestly think this is the opposite of truth. I imagine that anyone that claims they'd buy a Nintendo game if it were on PS4 or Xbox One would actually not buy such games in favor of the more stereotypical core gamer type of title. The proof is in the hardware owned. If you really do care about Nintendo's titles, then you will own that system.

For the same reasons you state in the first paragraph, I would argue that Nintendo may very well flourish on Xbox One or PS4. There is such a dearth of quality content that isn't M-rated on both of those systems that I think a company such as Nintendo may fill an unrecognized niche. Not only would the Nintendo faithful still buy their products, but families looking for quality games that are family friendly would be interested as well. Try and buy a quality, kid-friendly game for a family that owns an XB1/PS4 and it seems that you're pretty much limited to Minecraft, Lego, or Skylanders. I'd love to buy my nephew the newest Zelda or Mario game, but he only owns an Xbox One.

Minotaar wrote:

Their handhelds are largely a youth market.

Under what metric? Because I seem to recall a wide range of people buying DS systems 5-6 years ago. Not to mention the popularity of their handhelds in Japan where portable gaming isn't nearly as stigmatized as it is here. And their portable software is among some of their best offerings.

But their software is tons of legacy titles that everyone played as a kid and then grew out of (mostly). But imagine what they could do if they released their software with mass market appeal! Look at how the nostalgia ran rampant with the NES Classic this past holiday. If they made a Zelda or Mario or Metroid game on PS4 or Bone they'd sell like crazy!

I think they'll continue to do little one-off products like the NES Classic as a way to get people who like Nintendo's software but aren't willing to buy a full-fat console just to play it. It's a great way to sell that back catalog to people who can't or won't pay $300 to get access to the virtual console service.

Minotaar wrote:

I respectfully disagree. I think there's a solid market of people who enjoy Nintendo titles and would certainly play them but aren't willing to commit to a whole other system.

And I'm on the opposite side of that mirror where I'm increasingly less willing to pay an extra $400 every few years just so I can get my Final Fantasy and Persona fix via Sony hardware.

That's the rub with Nintendo though isn't it? They have the most attractive and most diverse first party IP among the major platform holders. Nintendo knows this and they know quite well that people will pay $300 (or less as time goes on) for the privilege to play their titles.

I also think that Nintendo going full-on third party would completely toss out half of what makes their games interesting. They're the only company currently that's willing to regularly take risks on new forms of input and play. Without Wii leading the way there would've been no Kinect, no Playstation Move. DS successfully demonstrated touch interfaces could make for compelling gameplay (something Palm failed to do in the late 90's/early 2000's) and iPhone took that and ran with it. N64 brought analog controls and rumble ahead of Sony's DualShock. Shoulder buttons. The D-pad. And so on.

When you have Nintendo stop making their own hardware they are then entirely at the mercy of what more conservative companies like MS and Sony want to do with their hardware. Miyamoto has a good idea for something that needs motion control? Tough luck, maybe wait a couple years for Sony to decide that it's worth wheeling out the EyeToy again. That will kill their inventiveness and experimentation with new software ideas because Sony isn't interested in doing anything other than selling you a new iteration of the same appliance every 5 years with more Ps and Hertzes on the spec sheet.

What makes Nintendo so compelling in my mind is that unique synergy of hardware and software which you don't get as frequently with the other companies. If they toss out the hardware division they're then left with a much weaker software portfolio.

ccesarano wrote:

We got to grow up with a variety. Without Nintendo, what do kids have outside of LEGO and Minecraft?

Not a whole lot else. That's part of the reason mobile has eaten into Nintendo's market share. But this also works as a rebuttal for doubtingthomas' point. If you've got young'uns Nintendo might actually be worth it as the sole platform for a 5 year stretch before they "outgrow" Nintendo and want to move onto one of the other platforms.

I feel like they've never focused on the virtual console as a key feature of the Wii U and now the Switch. Especially after seeing the success of the NES Classic. This feature should be front and center but most people who don't own a Nintendo console don't know much about the virtual console. Seems like it would be easy sell - buy a brand new system with brand new Nintendo games and get their games for every previous generation. If the NES classic is in such demand why couldn't this be more of a driving force.

I must be in a disagreeable mood tonight.

The only non-Nintendo kids games are Lego and Minecraft?

That's news to me. My daughter has been playing Little Big Plantet since she was three. That and Ratchet and Clank All 4 One, Create, The Unfinished Swan, Tricky Towers, Mod Nation Racers, de Blob, Sly Cooper, Puppeteer, Tearaway, katamari damacy, hohokum, small radios big televisions, Road Not Taken, Contraption Maker, Plants Vs Zombies, Stacking, and a bunch of other non-Nintendo games that I can't even remember. And yes, they do play lego and minecraft as well.

Nintendo games are kid friendly, sure, and they make it easy to find kid friendly games, but to describe the rest of the game industry as some blood soaked wasteland of debauchery and destruction is the sign of someone who isn't looking very hard.

Shifter wrote:

I feel like they've never focused on the virtual console as a key feature of the Wii U and now the Switch. Especially after seeing the success of the NES Classic. This feature should be front and center but most people who don't own a Nintendo console don't know much about the virtual console. Seems like it would be easy sell - buy a brand new system with brand new Nintendo games and get their games for every previous generation. If the NES classic is in such demand why couldn't this be more of a driving force.

They haven't given any details about Virtual Console on Switch yet, but it seems like they're planning on doing a little more to at least promote it through the free monthly rental you get with the online connectivity fee.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

That's news to me. My daughter has been playing Little Big Plantet since she was three. That and Ratchet and Clank All 4 One, Create, The Unfinished Swan, Tricky Towers, Mod Nation Racers, de Blob, Sly Cooper, Puppeteer, Tearaway, katamari damacy, hohokum, small radios big televisions, Road Not Taken, Contraption Maker, Plants Vs Zombies, Stacking, and a bunch of other non-Nintendo games that I can't even remember. And yes, they do play lego and minecraft as well.

Consider me schooled

That said, how many of those can you currently get on a PS4 or XBox?

There was a incorrect statement made about The Witcher. It is true that you can go into each game without playing the previous game but you can import your save into the next game. So playing each game will give you a different experience but you don't have to.

So the game is kind of like Mass Effect and its ability to import a save from the previous game.

shoptroll wrote:
doubtingthomas396 wrote:

That's news to me. My daughter has been playing Little Big Plantet since she was three. That and Ratchet and Clank All 4 One, Create, The Unfinished Swan, Tricky Towers, Mod Nation Racers, de Blob, Sly Cooper, Puppeteer, Tearaway, katamari damacy, hohokum, small radios big televisions, Road Not Taken, Contraption Maker, Plants Vs Zombies, Stacking, and a bunch of other non-Nintendo games that I can't even remember. And yes, they do play lego and minecraft as well.

Consider me schooled

That said, how many of those can you currently get on a PS4 or XBox?

I can't speak for the Xbox1, but PS4 games on that list are: Little Big Planet 3, Tricky Towers, Hohokum, Unfinished Swan, Tearaway, Road Not Taken, and Small Radios Big Televisions. I had also forgotten to mention Knack, which was a PS4 launch title that wasn't terrible. Also coming soon is De-Formers, which is a cute looking arena multiplayer game.

There are others that are kid friendly this gen (like Shiftlings), that my kids don't like but your mileage may vary.

I'll agree that Corey is absolutely nuts for thinking Nintendo should abandon everything to go purely into the wasteland of mobile development. But don't worry, I still love you.

If they are going to drop their own hardware then it makes sense to develop for the mainstream consoles, but I'm not convinced they need to. I've never owned a Nintendo console until I was given a Wii recently, and have previously only owned a 360 for a few months until the game prices got to me. But the Nintendo experience and parental control features make it very appealing for when my daughter is a few years older and the prices have come down a bit. (Nintendo stuff is ridiculously expensive in this country thanks to being imported by the Apple importers.)

And I think that even if the console 'tanks' like the Wii U with 13 million units, the lower availability of games on the system means the games have a better chance than competing in the more competitive Xbone/PS4 markets.

doogiemac wrote:

Folks having issues with the podcast feed, I think I found the issue. Earlier this week I deployed a fix to the feed generator because it was frequently timing out when attempting to get the length of the MP3 from Libsyn. I flipped the mime-type and length values in that fix, though, so the enclosure tag values on the feed were messed up. I think it should be resolved now!

It worked. Thank you!

Amanda.

I love Witcher 1. Love it. But having said that I don't really recommend you try play it. It is rough. It has all the hallmarks of a passion project, and the love for the material shows. But it's a weird bird. The combat is strange, the second chapter drags and it has nasty difficulty spikes. Once you get through chapter 2 it opens up to something really special.

It provides some context to events that come later, but nothing essential. As I say I love it, but I wouldn't want to see you bog down 1/20th of the way into the series and miss what comes later. The game is about 50 hours.

What I do recommend is you read The Last Wish and play Witcher 2. Last Wish provides context for a lot that happens in Witcher 2 & 3. Mechanically W2 is also starting to become a more conventional 3rd person action game which 3 builds on. You can also burn through it fairly quickly, as Shaun says. Although it's best if you play it twice. Not essential though.

Maybe after finishing 3 go back and play the original to see where the series comes from.

If you do really want to play the original that's cool, the Catch All has advice to work through the speed bumps. But just don't allow yourself to get bogged down.

Rabbit wrote:

Nobody wants jumping puzzles in anything!!

OBJECTION!!! I adore jumping puzzles, a lot. I love them so much that when I started playing Guild Wars 2 a while back, I set out to do - every - single - one.
Yup, I know, I'm a bit cuckoo.

Rat Boy wrote:

I imagine Certis would have been sold on Day of the Tentacle if Julian told him the puzzle solving works more like...

Spoiler:

Hamster in the freezer -> hamster in the microwave -> hamster in a mini-sweater.

Objectively the best puzzle in adventure gaming history.

shoptroll wrote:
Minotaar wrote:

Their handhelds are largely a youth market.

Under what metric?

My bad. I ran a Gamestop for 15 years and was purely drawing from personal experience, not worldwide data. It's easy to see that it's a youth dominated market from the other side of the sales counter, but obviously that doesn't necessarily hold true for a world's wealth of data.

As to your other point about innovation, I'd only point out that those technologies haven't really stood the test of time. They were crazy popular fads, but fads nonetheless. Gaming has marched on and it's with a regular controller and a TV (or mouse/keys and monitor

That's not to say that people don't want innovation, but touch mechanics and cameras and toy guitars have a limited appeal, it seems.

Bold statement - the same will happen with VR.