Community Game of the Year: The First 10 Years - Results!

Great work Gravey.

One interesting part of this thread is, as a long time goodjer, noting how some games have aged well in our minds over time (DA:O, ME2, Portal) while others are looked on with less nostalgia (Bioshock: Infinite, Fallout 3). I wonder why that is.

Thanks, Gravey.

I can't say that I'm too surprised by the results, either at the top or the bottom. Portal really was an instant classic that reshaped the video game business, for better or for worse. Bioshock Infinite and Dragon Age: Inquisition were controversial at the time and have only gotten more so. I was a little surprised when both of them won, and I'm not surprised that the general opinion of them seems to have fallen.

oilypenguin wrote:

Another heart-breaking loss for Mass Effect 2.

Crushing. Just crushing. Not a lick of justice in this world. I mean, hasn't it suffered enough this month already?

Wow, interesting. I didn't expect Portal 2 to do as well.
Thank you so much, Gravey, for doing all the leg work!!!

Budo wrote:

One interesting part of this thread is, as a long time goodjer, noting how some games have aged well in our minds over time (DA:O, ME2, Portal) while others are looked on with less nostalgia (Bioshock: Infinite, Fallout 3). I wonder why that is.

This thread has got me thinking I should give Dragon Age: Origins another shake, if it's held up this well. I bounced off it when I tried it on 360 years ago (er, when I tried it on the Xbox 360, years ago; not when I tried it on three hundred and sixty years ago), for reasons including not generally being a fan of party-based RPGs. But maybe managing a party might be easier on PC (IIRC you can "program" your mates), and then I can take another crack at the new sh*t.

Considering that I was very disappointed that BioShock Infinite won GOTY for its year, I'm happy to see that it ranked second to last on this list. As for last place, DA Inquisition, I didn't play it, so I have no opinion.

oilypenguin wrote:

Another heart-breaking loss for Mass Effect 2.

What do you mean another loss? It won GOTY in 2010, beating the game that I thought was the best of that year, RDR.

MeatMan wrote:

Considering that I was very disappointed that BioShock Infinite won GOTY for its year, I'm happy to see that it ranked second to last on this list. As for last place, DA Inquisition, I didn't play it, so I have no opinion.

oilypenguin wrote:

Another heart-breaking loss for Mass Effect 2.

What do you mean another loss? It won GOTY in 2010, beating the game that I thought was the best of that year, RDR.

Thanks Gravey for compiling the results! I'm sad ME 2 didn't take the top spot but am happy overall with the top 5. And I would highly recommend giving DAO a try on PC as I felt the controls were spot on.

My only complaint is Inquisition coming in below Oblivion. Really?!? Oblivion portals was way more tedious to close than rifts, and I honestly can't remember one character from Oblivion whereas Inquisition had some incredible player companions.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Thanks, Gravey.

I can't say that I'm too surprised by the results, either at the top or the bottom. Portal really was an instant classic that reshaped the video game business, for better or for worse. Bioshock Infinite and Dragon Age: Inquisition were controversial at the time and have only gotten more so. I was a little surprised when both of them won, and I'm not surprised that the general opinion of them seems to have fallen.

I loved Dragon Age: Inquisition, but the 2 things that really hurt it's long-term value were the DLC and the Witcher 3. The DLC was mostly ok but not up to par with the main story and turned a lot of the gameplay into a grind over time. Also, the Witcher 3 in my opinion outclassed DA:I in so many categories.

As for Bioshock: Infinite, I just wonder if we were all expecting something else. I enjoyed my time with it but really feel no inclination to return. Ironically, the DLC for that game actually improved it's long-term value.

Gravey wrote:
Budo wrote:

One interesting part of this thread is, as a long time goodjer, noting how some games have aged well in our minds over time (DA:O, ME2, Portal) while others are looked on with less nostalgia (Bioshock: Infinite, Fallout 3). I wonder why that is.

This thread has got me thinking I should give Dragon Age: Origins another shake, if it's held up this well. I bounced off it when I tried it on 360 years ago (er, when I tried it on the Xbox 360, years ago; not when I tried it on three hundred and sixty years ago), for reasons including not generally being a fan of party-based RPGs. But maybe managing a party might be easier on PC (IIRC you can "program" your mates), and then I can take another crack at the new sh*t.

By all means give it another shake, but I bounced off it on 360 *and* PC, separated by 3 years or so. The clunkiness doesn't go away with M&K.

Though to be fair, I'm hard pressed to think of a CRPG that I *haven't* bounced off. Wasteland 2 comes closest, but Divinity: Original Sin was bouncy for me too, and that's as good as the genre gets.

jdzappa wrote:

My only complaint is Inquisition coming in below Oblivion. Really?!? Oblivion portals was way more tedious to close than rifts, and I honestly can't remember one character from Oblivion whereas Inquisition had some incredible player companions.

Apples to nirnroot. Closing portals and talking to the characters weren't the main attractions of Oblivion.

Gravey wrote:

Apples to nirnroot. Closing portals and talking to the characters weren't the main attractions of Oblivion.

To be fair to jdzappa, we're all trying to figure out what the main attraction of Oblivion actually is.

Jonman wrote:
Gravey wrote:
Budo wrote:

One interesting part of this thread is, as a long time goodjer, noting how some games have aged well in our minds over time (DA:O, ME2, Portal) while others are looked on with less nostalgia (Bioshock: Infinite, Fallout 3). I wonder why that is.

This thread has got me thinking I should give Dragon Age: Origins another shake, if it's held up this well. I bounced off it when I tried it on 360 years ago (er, when I tried it on the Xbox 360, years ago; not when I tried it on three hundred and sixty years ago), for reasons including not generally being a fan of party-based RPGs. But maybe managing a party might be easier on PC (IIRC you can "program" your mates), and then I can take another crack at the new sh*t.

By all means give it another shake, but I bounced off it on 360 *and* PC, separated by 3 years or so. The clunkiness doesn't go away with M&K.

Though to be fair, I'm hard pressed to think of a CRPG that I *haven't* bounced off. Wasteland 2 comes closest, but Divinity: Original Sin was bouncy for me too, and that's as good as the genre gets.

Yeah, and the closest I've come to enjoying a BioWare game is the first two-thirds of Jade Empire, which still contained much of what I don't like about BioWare RPGs, and then the last third was an uninterrupted wheeze of the story deflating. Maybe I just feel obligated to spend time with a well-received medieval fantasy RPG that isn't from Bethesda, and also isn't a Witcher because bounce.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Gravey wrote:

Apples to nirnroot. Closing portals and talking to the characters weren't the main attractions of Oblivion.

To be fair to jdzappa, we're all trying to figure out what the main attraction of Oblivion actually is.

Avoiding adventure at all costs.

What is it that you don't like about Bioware RPGs? (I'm struggling to understand how I've sunk 50 hours into Dragon Age: Inquisition and yet feel like I don't like it.)

Gravey wrote:

Maybe I just feel obligated to spend time with a well-received medieval fantasy RPG that isn't from Bethesda, and also isn't a Witcher because bounce.

I'm trying to remember if you're one of the ones that played Dragon's Dogma already.

Which is most certainly not winning in the story department so...

Gravey wrote:

Maybe I just feel obligated to spend time with a well-received medieval fantasy RPG that isn't from Bethesda, and also isn't a Witcher because bounce.

Which Witcher was bouncy? Becuase if it wasn't Witcher 3, then you may be doing yourself a big disservice.

I bounced off W2 *hardcore*. W3, on the other hand, might be the best game I've ever played. YMMV

ClockworkHouse wrote:

What is it that you don't like about Bioware RPGs? (I'm struggling to understand how I've sunk 50 hours into Dragon Age: Inquisition and yet feel like I don't like it.)

Mainly the asshole/saint dichotomy. I don't like managing parties either but that's my problem, not BioWare's—Jade Empire's ARPG combat kept me playing that game—Mass Effect is just elves and magic in space, and the less said about ME1's UI the better. But the four BioWare games I've played (KOTOR1, JE, ME1, DA:O) all dress up each of their morality systems as something complex and thoughtful and not just good/evil—Jedi/Sith, Open Palm/Closed Fist, Paragon/Renegade—but every choice boils down to good/evil anyway. And typically saintly good/dastardly evil, with colour-coding just in case it wasn't clear. Save the orphanage or kill the puppy. Woo, a real moral quandary.

I know it's not a new complaint, and maybe things have improved since 2009. But in 2003 I found it extremely frustrating that for 30 hours I could only choose between selflessly helping all those in need (Open Palm), or telling everyone to get stuffed you lazy idiots (Closed Fist, and it felt like every Closed Fist response included a personal insult). Meanwhile I had two party members who were obviously Closed Fist (Black Whirlwind and Sky) but who weren't selfish assholes, and instead were interesting characters whose histories and beliefs brought nuance and complexity to the Closed Fist philosophy—nuance and complexity that the game would never let me explore with my choices. And so it's not just the morality system but the whole story since that system is integral to the story, and I found the writing, something BioWare is allegedly very talented at, to be constantly undermined each time I got to make a decision, in any of those games.

For morality systems being as fundamental a part of BioWare games as their dating sim subgame has become, I haven't found any of those I've played to be as interesting in their development or influential in my decision-making as the morality systems (such as they are) in Fable, Far Cry 2, or Metro 2033.

IMAGE(https://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/82733-why-not-both-meme-5lvd.jpeg)
Please don't ask me to pick between a BioWare game and an Elder Scrolls game. Both make my heart sing in very different ways, but they're so different, and they don't do the same thing. Apples and nirnroots indeed.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

To be fair to jdzappa, we're all trying to figure out what the main attraction of Oblivion actually is.

It's a good thing you're Clocky, or I'd be throttling you right now.

Budo wrote:

One interesting part of this thread is, as a long time goodjer, noting how some games have aged well in our minds over time (DA:O, ME2, Portal) while others are looked on with less nostalgia (Bioshock: Infinite, Fallout 3). I wonder why that is.

I can't speak for other people, but I think lovingly of Fallout 3 nearly every day.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Gravey wrote:

Apples to nirnroot. Closing portals and talking to the characters weren't the main attractions of Oblivion.

To be fair to jdzappa, we're all trying to figure out what the main attraction of Oblivion actually is.

Let's see...

Being able to exist inside that lush, wonderful world and experience some aspect of Cyrodil and the unique towns and villages surrounding it. It's not a game you play, but a world you live in.

While talking to characters wasn't the main attraction, having a bunch of quirky characters around added extra interest. Crazy stalker wood elf, obsessed fan, the Count and Countess of Skingrad, identical twins causing problems, farmers with odd problems, a creepy village "cult"...the list goes on!

The biggest and best main attraction to Oblivion though is that there is no single main attraction!

Decent list overall, except Oblivion not being last of course.

ccesarano wrote:
Gravey wrote:

Maybe I just feel obligated to spend time with a well-received medieval fantasy RPG that isn't from Bethesda, and also isn't a Witcher because bounce.

I'm trying to remember if you're one of the ones that played Dragon's Dogma already.

Which is most certainly not winning in the story department so...

Yes, I've played it for a bit, loved what I saw, but again I just really hate managing followers/party members. But I should get back to that one before spending money on Dragon Age again. Thanks for reminding me! As for the story, I've heard the ending is something to see—one of the reasons I wanted to play it—and have kept myself spoiler-free so far.

Jonman wrote:

Which Witcher

I bounced off the first two, thanks to the writing in the second and having to manage potions and unguents and balms and whatever in the first. I hate managing parties, I hate preparation and planning, I don't have an interest in supervisory positions at work... If the world of fantasy RPG players can be divided into three camps—Dark Souls, The Witcher, and The Elder Scrolls—I'm firmly in the camp that lets me ignore everyone, grab a sword and run into a bear, survive the fight, and launch the bear's corpse 100 feet straight up into the air. Anyway I think my computer would spontaneously crumple up like a tinfoil ball if I tried to install TW3 on it.

Gravey wrote:

Anyway I think my computer would spontaneously crumple up like a tinfoil ball if I tried to install TW3 on it.

It scales surprisingly well at the lower settings. When I first played it I had a graphics card just below the minimum required specs and the game played just fine on medium settings, all the way through. It looked gorgeous too. High/ultra settings is just greedy

So, if your PC is there or thereabouts I say BUY IT!!

zeroKFE wrote:
MeatMan wrote:

Considering that I was very disappointed that BioShock Infinite won GOTY for its year, I'm happy to see that it ranked second to last on this list. As for last place, DA Inquisition, I didn't play it, so I have no opinion.

oilypenguin wrote:

Another heart-breaking loss for Mass Effect 2.

What do you mean another loss? It won GOTY in 2010, beating the game that I thought was the best of that year, RDR.

Zero, that's going straight on my new list: Top 10 answers to our stupid inside jokes that require combing through 6 hours of video to answer.

Top notch work =)

Top notch work =)

What can I say, we make a good team.

(And they've be better off for having watched/listened to those shows anyway, amiright?)

Gravey wrote:

Mainly the asshole/saint dichotomy. [...] I know it's not a new complaint, and maybe things have improved since 2009.

I've played two Bioware games: Mass Effect and Dragon Age: Inquisition. Mass Effect definitely suffered from that dichotomy: you could be Space Doormat or Space Dick without a lot of nuance in between. Inquisition breaks away from that kind of single morality meter in ways that are both more successful and less.

Instead of being strongly binary, your choices are more finely differentiated (Generous Fantasy Doormat versus Grumpy Fantasy Doormat) to make your character less prone to mood swings than Shepherd was, which is a nice gain for characterization. On the other hand, instead of having a single morality meter to manage, you now have individual approval meters with every one of your companions, which requires you to be aware of their feelings about all the minor political nuances of the realm and to anticipate their reactions to your own range of choices.

I found it exhausting, and I eventually stopped caring if I made people happy or unhappy. The game expects a level of intimacy with your companions that I simply couldn't sustain.

Gravey wrote:

I hate managing parties, I hate preparation and planning, I don't have an interest in supervisory positions at work...

It's interesting to see you say this, because my experience with Bethesda's games (even the ones I like) has been that they're characterized by a constant level of management. You're constantly having to manage your inventory and the firehose of items coming your way. You manage your skills and which ones you're using at which times, and which ones you need to level up, and then all those endless quests. You may not manage other characters than your own very often, but Bethesda's games have a larger volume of work than many party-based RPGs I've played. They're among the fussiest RPGs out there.

Eleima wrote:

It's a good thing you're Clocky, or I'd be throttling you right now. ;)

And sigged.

bekkilyn wrote:

Being able to exist inside that lush, wonderful world and experience some aspect of Cyrodil and the unique towns and villages surrounding it. It's not a game you play, but a world you live in.

This is one of those times where I sincerely wish that I had played the same game that you did. I found Cyrodil entirely unconvincing as a world. It strains to be this believable world that exists outside the scope of what the player sees, but it always felt like a tiny sandbox filled with paper dolls taped to the backs of ants who marched along pheromone trails I couldn't perceive but knew were there.

This thread is making me want to reinstall Oblivion.

I bet there are some amazing mods that have come out since the last time I played.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

This is one of those times where I sincerely wish that I had played the same game that you did. I found Cyrodil entirely unconvincing as a world. It strains to be this believable world that exists outside the scope of what the player sees, but it always felt like a tiny sandbox filled with paper dolls taped to the backs of ants who marched along pheromone trails I couldn't perceive but knew were there.

Maybe it's because I played inside a lot of sandboxes and with paper dolls! Oh and I also enjoyed watching ants too. Still do actually....maybe to all of the above.

(goes back to playing Sims 2)

I don't need a world be believable though. I just need to it to be one that I enjoy living in for a while.

Just to be clear, I'm not anti-Bethesda. I just feel Oblivion was far weaker than Morrowind and Skyrim. Heck, IMHO Skyrim had more diversity in settings and regions.

I'm a huge fan of main story plot and characterization and I feel Bioware runs circles around Bethesda in those areas, though I also agree the morality system is a bit hazy. I tried to play a Shepard who went out of her way to take care of innocents and downtrodden but who wasn't above playing dirty tricks on the bad guys but ended up splitting my renegade/paragon points too much. It's the same problem I had with SWTOR in that if I wanted to play a "gray" Jedi or a battle-hardened trooper who has to make tough decisions then I was penalized for doing so.

Shadout wrote:

Decent list overall, except Oblivion not being last of course.

See, now you're *not* Clocky and so I definitely will have to throttle you.

I'm with Bekkilyn!!! Elder Scrolls game are just the funniest sandbox to me. A beautiful canvas in which my brain just seizes the occasion to fill blanks and brings so much to life...