[Discussion] Post-Election Safety Concerns

A place to discuss any changes you've had to make due to the changing political climate in the US. Also a place to post news articles backing up your concerns.

SillyRabbit wrote:

I'd be happy if a few strong people were able to hold the attacker down and just stop the violence, but I wouldn't be surprised if additional punches were thrown by the attacker and I would imagine punches back would likely happen.

That's what they meant when they said "beat the snot out of him" or "shoot him".

NormanTheIntern wrote:
SillyRabbit wrote:

I'd be happy if a few strong people were able to hold the attacker down and just stop the violence, but I wouldn't be surprised if additional punches were thrown by the attacker and I would imagine punches back would likely happen.

That's what they meant when they said "beat the snot out of him" or "shoot him".

No, I definitely meant that my visceral reaction to someone so hateful that they will beat another person without provocation is a strong desire to cause them harm (which shooting them would accomplish).

I wouldn't do it. And I know rationally that such a reaction accomplishes the exact opposite of a good resolution. But I'm not a gorram Vulcan; it takes time to get my emotions under control.

This is also why I am a firm believer that an unarmed society is a better society.

NormanTheIntern wrote:
SillyRabbit wrote:

I'd be happy if a few strong people were able to hold the attacker down and just stop the violence, but I wouldn't be surprised if additional punches were thrown by the attacker and I would imagine punches back would likely happen.

That's what they meant when they said "beat the snot out of him" or "shoot him".

If you have an issue with anybody's posts in-thread, it'd be awesome if you could hash it out with them rather than continuing to equate anything folks here are saying with the actual violence that is already targeting marginalized folks.

Folks who are at risk will probably set their personal threshold for using force at a different spot than I will - and I can't say that's really an unreasonable response, given the uptick in actual, non-rhetorical harassment and violence we've seen already (and we still haven't even gotten to the inauguration yet).

For my part, as a large white cis guy who looks at least superficially conservative, I'm not the target for any of these redcap yahoos. Though I abhor violence, I will do my best to protect anyone from these newly-emboldened bigots who think the kind of belligerent, violent behavior we're seeing with some regularity from Trump supporters is at all acceptable - and to the extent that it's possible for me to do so, I will do this without becoming violent myself.

That said, if I'm in a situation where using violence is my best chance of keeping others safe, I'll do it. I won't be happy about it, but I'll do it.

NormanTheIntern wrote:
SillyRabbit wrote:

I'd be happy if a few strong people were able to hold the attacker down and just stop the violence, but I wouldn't be surprised if additional punches were thrown by the attacker and I would imagine punches back would likely happen.

That's what they meant when they said "beat the snot out of him" or "shoot him".

If someone sucker-punches me with no warning and starts beating on me, you'd better believe I hope a stranger steps in and stops them, physically if necessary.

Conversely, if I see that happening to someone else, I hope I have the chutzpah to step up and help, physically if necessary.

So, again, what's your point here? That we should just let assault and hate crimes go on around us?

With all due respect, f*ck NO.

Jonman wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone confronts me and my wife in a similar manner.

Guess how much sh*t I've gotten for being a immigrant? A pasty white, native-English-speaker of an immigrant?

Did you guess "none, whatsoever, at any point in the last decade"? Congratulations!

Yeah, it ain't about immigration.

Yep, exactly why I think it's inevitable for me and my wife.

Jonman wrote:
NormanTheIntern wrote:
SillyRabbit wrote:

I'd be happy if a few strong people were able to hold the attacker down and just stop the violence, but I wouldn't be surprised if additional punches were thrown by the attacker and I would imagine punches back would likely happen.

That's what they meant when they said "beat the snot out of him" or "shoot him".

If someone sucker-punches me with no warning and starts beating on me, you'd better believe I hope a stranger steps in and stops them, physically if necessary.

Conversely, if I see that happening to someone else, I hope I have the chutzpah to step up and help, physically if necessary.

So, again, what's your point here? That we should just let assault and hate crimes go on around us?

With all due respect, f*ck NO.

Pretty much this.

Drawing some kind of moral equivalence between intervening in a hate crime and the hate crime itself is the kind of thing I have, unfortunately, come to expect of the morally bankrupt Trump movement.

So, again, what's your point here? That we should just let assault and hate crimes go on around us?

What is the point of questions like this? I could certainly hope we have not reached a place on these boards where some posters truly believe others who post here approve of hate crimes. If not, it would seem that it is just inflammatory rhetoric, and that does no one any good. Accusing someone of being complicit in hate crimes, and then getting a +1, is just one reason that more sane conservatives don't jump into D&D here.

Scope of discussion:
"A place to discuss any changes you've had to make due to the changing political climate in the US. Also a place to post news articles backing up your concerns."

Are we getting off track?

Meanwhile:
http://atlantablackstar.com/2016/11/...

You need to go back to the cotton farm,’ a young white boy said to Jordan Jackson, 8, on a playground Nov. 14. as Jackson and his younger sister waited for their parents at Spanish Lake Primary School in Geismar, Louisiana. The racist outburst came after Jordan, who is an honor student and athlete, asked one of the three children — one of whom was 13 and all of whom were white and the children of teachers — to stop throwing mulch at him and his 4-year-old sister, J’Niaha. Jordan was subsequently pushed down multiple times and body slammed at least twice, suffering a broken arm and a concussion, which has now evolved into post-concussion syndrome.

Similarly.

William Sims was probably not expecting to be jumped by three white men when he went to one of his hangouts, the Capri Club pool hall, on Nov. 12. But the gifted 28-year-old musician apparently encountered three men in the bar who decided to rob, beat, and then shoot him to death, all because he was black.

Oi, I'm really dreading when/if overlord Trump's media empire starts re-branding or spinning these incidents as something positive :/

One of the perpetrators from Dimmer's post is already in custody. I sure hope the parents from Tangle's post press charges against both the school and the bullies' parents. It sounded like the police in that case were supportive and wanted to hold the school accountable as well.

The people committing these hate crimes need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows.

Nomad wrote:

The people committing these hate crimes need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows.

I was going to say we need to take the firmest stance we can before someone ends up dead, but too late.

Too livid to comment beyond that.

Nomad wrote:

The people committing these hate crimes need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows.

But it's not just hate crimes.

It's f*cking idiots like this white woman in the Lakeview neighborhood of Chicago who think that because she voted for Trump that she gets to accuse black cashiers at an arts and craft store of discriminating against her simply because they asked her if she wanted to buy a reusable shopping bag for $1.

Let's not forget that a lot of white people have such a warped view of reality (thank you conservative news) that they honestly think that anti-white discrimination is a larger problem for society than anti-black or anti-Hispanic discrimination.

I know I mentioned this earlier, but I invited all my Trump supporting friends to prove they are as repulsed by all of this overt racism in their name as I am by going to a counter demonstration against the KKK victory march that is happening less than two hours from my house.

Still crickets.

Paleocon wrote:

I know I mentioned this earlier, but I invited all my Trump supporting friends to prove they are as repulsed by all of this overt racism in their name as I am by going to a counter demonstration against the KKK victory march that is happening less than two hours from my house.

The majority of whites in the US were already given an opportunity to prove this movie clip wrong when it applied to their own damn country, and they failed.

Paleocon wrote:

I know I mentioned this earlier, but I invited all my Trump supporting friends to prove they are as repulsed by all of this overt racism in their name as I am by going to a counter demonstration against the KKK victory march that is happening less than two hours from my house.

Still crickets.

This is it exactly. If they want to show they are being unfairly maligned, they need to prove it. If they want to show that, no, really, it was about the economy and a climate of corruption and cronyism, they need to be out there in mass decrying such things as they become absurdly obvious in the melted traffic cone's plans. It will be far more effective and convincing than whining and trolling message boards.

This happened at my old StarBucks across the street from the University of Miami. https://twitter.com/Jbdcl/status/799...

That man must have been suffering from such economic anxiety that all that stood between him and complete economic ruin was a coffee-based drink.

Or he was a racist dick.

OG_slinger wrote:

That man must have been suffering from such economic anxiety that all that stood between him and complete economic ruin was a coffee-based drink.

Or he was a racist dick.

The accumulated trauma of 8 years of a seekret mooslim president.

Nomad wrote:

The people committing these hate crimes need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows.

I agree (though think systemic racism makes me less optimistic that will happen consistently, I do think that consistent law-enforcement prosecution of hate crimes is an important piece of the puzzle).

There are two separate (though related) questions I see being discussed here, though - paraphrased, I'd categorize them as "How can I keep myself safe" and "How should I respond to harassment or violence by bigots against others".

As someone who is exceedingly unlikely to be targeted (at least by the current wave), I'm not sure I have any insight on the first question. I don't begrudge anyone at risk from taking whatever defensive measures they deem appropriate to keep themselves safe, and have friends who are taking self-defense classes like Chimera to have more tools available in the event they're attacked.

I've already shared my personal stance on the latter question upthread.

I do still think that it is disingenuous at best to conflate any of the posts in this thread about how to respond to hate crimes with the actual, non-rhetorical harassment and violence that is already happening.

OG_slinger wrote:
Nomad wrote:

The people committing these hate crimes need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows.

But it's not just hate crimes.

It's f*cking idiots like this white woman in the Lakeview neighborhood of Chicago who think that because she voted for Trump that she gets to accuse black cashiers at an arts and craft store of discriminating against her simply because they asked her if she wanted to buy a reusable shopping bag for $1.

Let's not forget that a lot of white people have such a warped view of reality (thank you conservative news) that they honestly think that anti-white discrimination is a larger problem for society than anti-black or anti-Hispanic discrimination.

On the upside, this lady lost her job because it, apparently, is a habit of hers

The former employer of a woman caught on video ranting at Lakeview Michaels employees last week wants angry viewers of the video to know: She doesn't work there anymore.

Hours after video of a woman calling Michaels employees "animals" went viral, information on her identity began circulating online — including a LinkedIn profile that said she worked as a human resources business partner at Sinai Health System.

Most alarming to me is that this lady worked in HUMAN RESOURCES.

Ten Days After: Harassment and Intimidation in the Aftermath of the Election

Just a week before the November 8th election, attackers set a church in Greenville, Mississippi, on fire. The historically black church was targeted in what authorities believe was an act of voter intimidation, its walls spray-painted with the phrase “Vote Trump.”

“This kind of attack happened in the 1950s and 1960s,” Greenville’s mayor said, “but it shouldn’t happen in 2016.”

The incident was just a harbinger of what has become a national outbreak of hate, as white supremacists celebrate Donald Trump’s victory.* In the ten days following the election, there were almost 900 reports of harassment and intimidation from across the nation. Many harassers invoked Trump’s name during assaults, making it clear that the outbreak of hate stemmed in large part from his electoral success.

Clearly those are all just sjw's trying to make the upstanding citizens who supported Trump look bad.*

*almost every single article I've seen on this subject that has a comments thread has half the comments making this ridiculous claim.

ruhk wrote:

Clearly those are all just sjw's trying to make the upstanding citizens who supported Trump look bad.*

*almost every single article I've seen on this subject that has a comments thread has half the comments making this ridiculous claim.

Yep. I had a friend post a note that was placed on a neighbor's car and the very first comment was that it could've been someone from the left trying to rile things up.

It speaks loudly that one line of inquiry is about how to keep safe rather than why one feels unsafe and must adopt measures to keep safe. Not a criticism of this thread's discussion but another way to look at the issue.

A big problem is that situational awareness only goes so far. Racist/homophobic people will target victims they think won't be capable of reacting with equal force (classic example - my 114 pound wife was accosted at the checkout in a chemist store buying baby formula by an old White couple last weekend whereas they wouldn't dare try that with me at 5'10" and 190 pounds and I've never had trouble with racist oldies, albeit I've encountered my fair share of angry White youths spoiling for a fight).

In cases where you see it happening, the best deterrence is (a) make sure someone is filming footage for prosecution evidence and (b) everyone around needs to stand up and speak out/intervene in solidarity. If we keep prosecuting and demonstrating that sort of behaviour is unacceptable then it should become less frequent.

This seemed a bit of good happening.

Thousands Pledge To Stand By Neighbors Who Are Frightened Post-Election

In light of the uptick in acts of hate since Donald Trump was elected last week, one New Yorker decided to harness the power of social media to enlist people to accompany their neighbors on their commutes.

Kayla Santosuosso, deputy director of the Arab American Association of New York, received a message about a woman who was being harassed and threatened on the subway. “She was seeking someone to commute along with her,” Santosuosso told The Huffington Post. So she put up a Facebook post asking if anyone would be willing to help out.

Santosuosso assumed only a handful of friends would respond, but the next thing she knew, tons of people were messaging her, asking to be put on a backup list.

To accommodate them, she created a Google sign-up form on Thursday night via The Action Network, an online organizing platform. By Monday, 7,118 people had signed up.

Disengagement is fine if there's open space and you're on the move but what are you going to do if stuck on public transport or queued in line at a checkout when the harassment occurs? Someone needs to step in at that point but a lot of people will sit back and look away pretending not to notice.

Moving with an escort is also pragmatic (if you can find someone) but we are talking about a major impediment to freedom of movement, one of liberal society's freedoms. This is the point that free (hate) speech is trumping other liberties. It shouldn't.