[Discussion] Feminism and social justice, plus FAQ!

This thread is for discussing feminist issues--from the narrow meaning (a movement for social justice in terms of gender equality) to the broader meaning (a movement for social justice, period), and from the scope of issues in gaming and geek culture to kyriarchy in general.

Basic questions are allowed here for now, we will split out a Q&A thread should it become necessary.

Docjoe wrote:

So I don't want this to devolve into a commentary on healthcare but I think it is illustrative of some of the issues in pay inequity in what is about as egalitarian system as I can think of.

Physicians in the US are paid for doing something. That something can range from procedures like surgery (that pay the most), physically seeing patients (and not by the hour but essentially by the visit) or in my field things like administering chemotherapy (which is what pays oncologists by far the most). So you can see where the pay incentive lies - with doing things to patients.

In my field, the most highly compensated docs are the ones who see the most patients. They are also by and large the worst doctors. They "crank" through patients in as little time as possible. Listening and talking to patients, going over treatment options, all of the things that we think of as the qualities that we appreciate in our doctors results in less compensation. And in oncology, you don't get paid for helping a patient understand that it is in their best interests to stop treatment. You get paid for giving them more treatment.

So when I think about the doctors that I know, the "traditional" female gender role - listening, comforting, etc - does not pay well. I'm running the risk of stereotyping here but I think this is one of the reasons male doctors tend to be more "productive". It is certainly largely true in my specialty. I would think that maybe professions such as law would be similar?

https://www.google.com/amp/nytlive.n...

Plans are shaping up for a "Million Woman March" in DC and other cities on Jan 21st, the day after inauguration. I plan to be there.

It's already being co-opted by jerks trying to sell "tickets" which are completely fake and giving that money to conservative causes, and posting conflicting info in social media groups.

Mixolyde wrote:

https://www.google.com/amp/nytlive.n...

Plans are shaping up for a "Million Woman March" in DC and other cities on Jan 21st, the day after inauguration. I plan to be there.

It's already being co-opted by jerks trying to sell "tickets" which are completely fake and giving that money to conservative causes, and posting conflicting info in social media groups.

Hotel Booked - we're staying outside of DC and taking public transportation.

I'll be there. I'm staying at an airbnb in Baltimore - good thing I got my train tickets to DC early as they sold out almost immediately!

Very cool. I know I can't swing a trip to D.C., but if they end up doing any satellite marches locally I'll definitely be there.

chixor7 wrote:

Very cool. I know I can't swing a trip to D.C., but if they end up doing any satellite marches locally I'll definitely be there.

There are several satellite marches in other cities, but I don't have the details handy. Keep an eye out for them!

RedJen wrote:

Hotel Booked - we're staying outside of DC and taking public transportation.

Awesome, we are local and will take the Metro, too.

new member, hopping in here to say hello and get acquainted with other feminists. <3

Duchess of Cornwall employs all-woman martial arts expert security team in UAE

IMAGE(http://assets.fightland.com/content-images/contentimage/60085/the-duchess-of-cornwall-employs-all-female-martial-arts-expert-security-team-in-uae.jpg)

During a recent Middle Eastern tour to with a focus on promoting religious tolerance and to support women in leadership roles, Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, and Prince Charles spent three days in the United Arab Emirates. Accompanying the Duchess on her visits to Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and Al Ain was an all-female security squad. According to Emirates Woman, “the women were handpicked from the UAE’s presidential guard, which counts more than 50 females among its ranks.”

“It is the first time that any member of the British Royal Family has been given an all-women security detail. Aged between 29 and 30, each member of the eight-strong team, a source close to them revealed, was trained in martial arts and close quarters fighting techniques as well as defensive and evasive maneuvers,”

neat but

Aged between 29 and 30

? That's rather specific.

I would like to thing think that's just the current age range of all current members, rather than a specific rule they need to stick to!

That said, it's originally a Daily Mail story so expect them to focus on age and how 'beautiful and exotic' they are (y'know..despite knowing how to kill a man in two dozen different ways).

I'm not sure if this has come up in other threads, but Roosh is basically seeing Trump's win as a licence to let his woman-hating flag fly.

I'd link to the source work, but I really don't want to give RoK more traffic. I read that piece of crap so you wouldn't have to. Raw Story got it right, except he didn't actually say outright that this means rape can be legal again.

Return Of Kings opened in 2012, and the only surprise for me is how quickly the name is being fulfilled.

Blarg. I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

I'm sure every other Misogynistic troll on Youtube and elsewhere are saying much the same thing, but I don't hate myself enough to go look.

Viola Desmond, civil-rights pioneer, to be featured on Canada’s new $10 bill
It'll be nice to have a woman other than the Queen on some of our money

I wore men’s clothes for a month – and it changed my life

Motivated by Octieber and determined to combat the world of gendered clothing, Lucy Rycroft-Smith tries menswear for a month and documents her findings
NathanialG wrote:

I wore men’s clothes for a month – and it changed my life

Motivated by Octieber and determined to combat the world of gendered clothing, Lucy Rycroft-Smith tries menswear for a month and documents her findings

Unfortunately, I don't have the figure for men's clothing or I'd probably wear more of it. I really do need to wear women's pants because men's pants don't fit right at all. The last time I was able to get away with wearing men's pants with any degree of comfort was as a pre-teen before puberty relentlessly attacked and made things even more miserable from that point forward.

But I have bought men's shirts and shoes on occasion, particularly due to the fact that men's clothing often comes in better colors. I'm really not that much of a pastel person when it comes to clothing. I feel like they make me look washed out. Another thing that irks me about many women's shirts is that despite the fact that women have breasts, our clothes aren't really designed for them, so if you have something other than a model thin body, our shirts are too short, so if you lift up your arms in public for some reason, everyone around you is going to get a show. And fitting into a button down shirt that isn't too tight over the breasts but baggy and ill-fitting everywhere else. Not saying that men's are much better in this regard, but at least men can get shirts that fit them because they are generally measured sizes vs. "size 12" one size supposedly fits all, and even all size 12's are drastically different depending on brand.

I don't think I'd want to regularly wear a tie as any gender though, so I'll leave that off and just wear ruffles or something, thank you very much.

Don't even get me started on the pockets. I hate purses and have only very rarely carried one, so figuring out what to do with my wallet/coin purse and keys has been a real chore. I've taken to wearing one of those belts that people use when they visit other countries so that their wallets don't get stolen. Even the clothes that have pockets are often made out of materials where things like keys would drastically show.

I hate clothes shopping so much that I tend to wear the same things over and over until they literally become shreds.

Great article. I hate women's formal clothes and also hate wearing women's suits to an interview. Never found one that doesn't make me look and feel gross and self-conscious. And the shoes! If you can't wear heels good luck finding something nice.

This is the reason I do most of my shopping at outdoorsy places like LLBean despite not being outdoorsy at all - you can get women's clothing that's actually comfortable with real pockets.

bekkilyn wrote:

I don't think I'd want to regularly wear a tie as any gender though, so I'll leave that off and just wear ruffles or something, thank you very much. :)

IMAGE(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/a/af/Miles_Edgeworth_4_PLvsAA.png/revision/latest?cb=20140413023019)

My wife switched to male suits for formal clothing a few years ago. She looks great in them and is much more comfortable and warm at formal events. This is us at my brother's wedding:

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/CfoXSzK.jpg)

Unfortunately she had to switch to dresses even for her daily wear do to some medical issues over the past year. She hates them, has to buy giant socks just to keep warm and never has any pockets. She cannot wait to get better and be back to wearing pants and having pockets.

The lack of proper pockets is something that immediately struck me on switching to ladies jeans and jackets. Pain in the butt to be sure.

pyxistyx wrote:

The lack of proper pockets is something that immediately struck me on switching to ladies jeans and jackets. Pain in the butt to be sure.

Surely there's a better place to carry your keys and phone, even without pockets?

:p

In all seriousness, I don't know how women cope with what they are expected to wear.

Is it any consolation that things are inching in the other direction?

"These pants make my butt look good, but now where do I put my wallet?" - is something I've had to contemplate recently.

I will never understand anyone putting stuff in butt pockets. I actually don't get why butt pockets exist. I see women put their phones there all the time and I always think, man my forgetful fat ass would forget it was there, sit on it and crack the little bastard in half. Wallet? I don't want to sit lopsided!

That said, I always thought it was bizarre that women's front pockets were not even deep enough to fight a credit card in, much less something normal like a wallet (which for women are always like twice as long as men's, thus further exacerbating the problem) or a phone or even keys... it's why I don't really care if a lady asks to keep something in my wallet (other than the stress of something happening to it under my care)... that and it makes me feel good to be useful.

Demosthenes wrote:

I will never understand anyone putting stuff in butt pockets. I actually don't get why butt pockets exist. I see women put their phones there all the time and I always think, man my forgetful fat ass would forget it was there, sit on it and crack the little bastard in half. Wallet? I don't want to sit lopsided!

Back pockets are for paper, and paper alone!

But also for very temporary storage. Like putting your car keys in there while you're loading stuff into the trunk with both hands.

When I mean I want pockets, the very last place I'd ask for them is on the butt end of things. I'd *never* actually put anything there. Sit on it, it breaks, and just think of all the temptation to pickpockets. Put something in a butt pocket, and you might as well announce, "Free for the taking!" If something falls out of a butt pocket, chances are it would go unnoticed. Nope, don't give me butt pockets...give me *real* pockets in the front and sides. Give me pants that are thick enough so that the pants don't sag if you put a wallet or keys in a pocket, or even worse fall out of the pocket because the material used wasn't strong enough to hold anything heavier than a handkerchief. And yes, do make the pockets big and deep enough to be useful.

I don't use those super-huge "women's" wallets as I find them impractical. Maybe they were fine back in the old days when most people used checkbooks, but I avoid writing checks too. What's the point of having a super huge wallet when a slender billfold or small coin purse will do?

So not only do women not get pockets at all, we get bamboozled into buying items that wouldn't even fit in a pocket even if we had one. Ridiculous!

I'll be the weirdo in the thread. I love women's clothing. There's a multiplicity of textures, cuts, combinations, and styles that's far beyond anything available in menswear. Some of it is absolutely impractical and fussy, but that can be part of the appeal. Women's clothing gives so many options for adornment and expression.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'll be the weirdo in the thread.

Come on now. It's not just this thread.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'll be the weirdo in the thread. I love women's clothing. There's a multiplicity of textures, cuts, combinations, and styles that's far beyond anything available in menswear. Some of it is absolutely impractical and fussy, but that can be part of the appeal. Women's clothing gives so many options for adornment and expression.

This is something I'm definitely envious of. I have one acceptable option for dressing up "nicely", and I detest that option and every facet of it. I don't envy the seemingly mandated impracticality of women's clothes, but I do envy the diversity of choices they get across the casual-formal range. Thanks for nothing, Victorian England. This is just an envy in principle though, I would (and try to) wear jeans and sneakers at every opportunity.

Also, my wallet always go in a back pocket, but maybe it helps that my wallet is always so thin.