[Discussion] Post-Election Safety Concerns

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A place to discuss any changes you've had to make due to the changing political climate in the US. Also a place to post news articles backing up your concerns.

I know I can't be the only one freaking out, changing my daily activities, due to the changing political climate. For example, I've stopped walking the local hiking trail because I realized it's too wooded and secluded. I thought I was being paranoid until:

1. A friend of a friend was harassed on said trail because they perceived her to be Muslim.

2. Two towns down, a man got two warning letters ordering him to ditch his African-American roommates.

3. In the town bordering mine, someone has been distributing KKK newsletters, and they seem to be selecting which issue to give based on the target's circumstances. For example, a lesbian couple received one on their driveway, lamenting the 2015 Supreme Court decision making same-sex marriage legal in all states.

The police chief had one mailed to his workplace.

I don't feel too comfortable posting the news articles, as they'd give away my location. I'll just say that this is an extremely Blue state. People bandy my senator's name about as a 2020 liberal presidential hopeful.

If a black woman is not safe here, then where?

Sometimesdee, I am very sorry to hear this. Please know that our thoughts and hearts are with you. I know several of my conservative/moderate friends (not Trump supporters mind you) have talked about how the latest stories about harassment are fear mongering and isolated incidents, but I'm hearing from others that this is a sea change.

I've been hesitant to post this earlier, but since we have a number of firearms experts on the board, I wanted to know the rules about concealed carry. If someone is threatening harm or using really viscous slurs, can you pull your gun? (I think calling someone a f-word or n-word counts as fighting language in some states). Can you pull a gun to defend others? Is the penalty for drawing light enough that it still might be worth doing to save someone from a potential hate crime? Or would you be looking at years in prison to get some Neo Nazi sh*thead to back down?

I'm not asking these questions lightly. Even though I have military training in firearms, I've been loathe to carry as I have a kid and just didn't want to deal with the hassle and potential danger. But as a white man with said training, maybe my duty nowadays IS to get armed and be ready.

PS - hope this doesn't go against the updated Code of Conduct. I'm talking about pure self defense and would never actually shoot unless actually attacked.

Inflammatory language does not count as a threat justifying a deadly response in any state I know of. Certainly not here in North Carolina.

jdzappa: Since you're local to me, here is the RCW.

WASHINGTON

(Art. I, § 24) wrote:

“The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.”

Contact Info

State of Washington
Office of the Attorney General
Licensing & Employment Security Division
P.O. Box 40110
Olympia, WA 98504-0110
(360) 753-2702

Prohibited Areas (state)

  • The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person. (Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public) (RCW 9.41.300)
  • Public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools" (RCW 9.41.280). This prohibition does not apply to any person in possession of a permit and is "picking up or dropping off a student". Do NOT exit the vehicle with the firearm.
  • Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. (RCW 9.41.300)
  • The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment. (RCW 9.41.300)
  • That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; (RCW 9.41.300)
  • The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. (Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area).
  • Outdoor music festivals. See Special Notes for definition of "Outdoor Music Festivals" (RCW 70.108.150)
  • All facilities owned, leased, or operated by the office of administrative hearings and in rooms where the office of administrative hearings is conducting an administrative hearing. (WAC 10-20-010(1))
  • Washington State Administrative Rules prohibit firearms in at least the following locations:
  • Colleges or Universities
  • Racing Grounds
  • Licensed child care facilities (including pretty much any facility licensed to provide care to children/teens)

Prohibited Areas (federal)

  • Airport secure areas (49 CFR § 1540.111(a))
  • Post Offices (18 USC § 930, 39 CFR § 232.1)
  • Federal buildings (including prisons, courthouses, and Army Corps of Engineers) (18 USC § 930, 36 CFR § 327.13)
  • A private residence if notice is given (verbal/posted sign)
  • Military bases (18 USC § 930)
  • National cemeteries (38 C.F.R. § 1.218(a)(13))
  • Any area designated secure or otherwise prohibited by State or Federal Law

Duty To Retreat

No. Although there is no statute on point, the Washington common law supports the circuit majority opinion that there is no duty to retreat from an unlawful threat so long as the actor is free from contributory guilt. State v. Prado.

Special Notes

Vehicles: A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee’s person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle. Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 9.41.050

Age to Carry: Possession of a handgun by someone 18-21: Unless an exception under RCW 9.41.042, 9.41.050, or 9.41.060 applies, a person at least eighteen years of age, but less than twenty-one years of age, may possess a pistol only:(1) In the person's place of abode;(2) At the person's fixed place of business; or (3) On real property under his or her control.

Quasi Duty to Inform: (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. RCW 9.41.050

Outdoor Music Festivals: “Outdoor music festival” or “music festival” or “festival” means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state. Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 70.108.020.

Thanks Edwin. Actually had a conversation on social media with some cop friends who just recommended leaving any public altercation to the police. Loudly declare you're calling 911 and be prepared to escape if at all possible. I was also reminded of all the training I'd need to take to feel comfortable carrying a weapon.

That being said, I'm likely going to pick up a weapon for home in case my nutjob Trump loving neighbor decides to do something stupid around midnight. (Or for general protection in case of emergencies.)

(note: this is in no way directed at jdzappa)

What I'm finding infuriating is that the right wing gun nuts (HASHTAG NOT ALL GUN ENTHUSIASTS OR RIGHT WINGERS, SURE) are seeing this as an opportunity to try and get the LGBT community to start buying more guns. "Hey, you feel unsafe? Buy a gun! They're coming for you, protect yourself*!" Such shameless opportunism cashing in on actual concerns of people and trying to act like the concerns of a minority right now are the same as the concerns of out friendly Freedom LARPers is just... I'm just too tired to be angry.

(*from people like us who were happy to get us where we are now!)

I get you, Bloo. I was just discussing with Absurd that gun manufacturers will make a killing (no pun intended) from current events.

Dee, I'm really sorry you are feeling this way.
I'm sorry as well that I know you are definitely not the only one. My wife cancelled a trip to a fairly liberal town in a very red state because it will be over the days of the inauguration.

I hope we all find ways to continue to show our support for one another. If enough of us step forward for each other, we can prevent the deplorable few from taking our safe spaces.

My wife is definitely concerned. Lots of confederate flags flying in Philly of all places. Our worst fears of a Trump presidency are already coming true and the Lower Merion Police Department chose this moment to come out and condemn an organized student march by the local colleges this weekend.

Priorities.

I went to school there, don't gt me started on Lower Merion PD, ugh.

TheGameguru wrote:

My wife is definitely concerned. Lots of confederate flags flying in Philly of all places. Our worst fears of a Trump presidency are already coming true and the Lower Merion Police Department chose this moment to come out and condemn an organized student march by the local colleges this weekend.

Priorities.

FWIW Philly (along with Boston and NY) is one of the last places I'd expect to see Confederate flags. That's terrifying.

sometimesdee wrote:

I get you, Bloo. I was just discussing with Absurd that gun manufacturers will make a killing (no pun intended) from current events.

Slightly off topic, but gun manufacturers have seen sales collapse in the wake of the election. We'll see if that lasts, I guess.

Gremlin wrote:
sometimesdee wrote:

I get you, Bloo. I was just discussing with Absurd that gun manufacturers will make a killing (no pun intended) from current events.

Slightly off topic, but gun manufacturers have seen sales collapse in the wake of the election. We'll see if that lasts, I guess.

Sure, when your industry trades in fear, you have to keep people scared of something.

I'll be honest, I'm of two minds about the whole thing, because violence against LGBT folks is an actual concern (unlike the whole 'comin for our guns' routine). I don't begrudge anyone their choice to defend themselves. I just cannot stand the notion that the threat of violence from one right-wing extremist group is considered a sales opportunity by another. Blerg.

Bloo Driver wrote:
Gremlin wrote:
sometimesdee wrote:

I get you, Bloo. I was just discussing with Absurd that gun manufacturers will make a killing (no pun intended) from current events.

Slightly off topic, but gun manufacturers have seen sales collapse in the wake of the election. We'll see if that lasts, I guess.

Sure, when your industry trades in fear, you have to keep people scared of something.

I'll be honest, I'm of two minds about the whole thing, because violence against LGBT folks is an actual concern (unlike the whole 'comin for our guns' routine). I don't begrudge anyone their choice to defend themselves. I just cannot stand the notion that the threat of violence from one right-wing extremist group is considered a sales opportunity by another. Blerg.

Reminds me of a conversation I had with someone from another country who was opposed to guns, but also described how as an LGBT person in her country there was a real danger of rapists breaking into her house. And she still didn't want a gun. Which certainly made me think.

Gremlin wrote:
sometimesdee wrote:

I get you, Bloo. I was just discussing with Absurd that gun manufacturers will make a killing (no pun intended) from current events.

Slightly off topic, but gun manufacturers have seen sales collapse in the wake of the election. We'll see if that lasts, I guess.

From the article:

"You're causing people that wouldn't normally buy a gun to buy two or three. The owner here, Craig, he had sold three rifles to one individual, just because of a possibility [of a Clinton presidency]," Bissey says.

You gotta wonder if that individual wouldn't have such economic anxiety if he hadn't dropped a couple grand on firearms...

Even though I'm a middle class white woman in a blue state -- and therefore not especially at risk -- this election has me terrified. The fact that alt-right people like Bannon will have top positions in this White House makes me scared about how many people believe in pushing women out of the public sphere and how much power they have. I can't imagine what it's like for female PoCs

I've been going through and editing out my name and URLs in threads. Sorry for the hassle everyone. Trying to "fix" my privacy on the site and the few leaks I've allowed over the years.

I work with folks whose sole response to the rise in racist violence is to laugh derisively and to say "maybe they should just go to their 'safe zones'".

I need to move the hell out of this sh1thole, because I am quite likely to beat the everloving snail snot out of someone.

Paleocon wrote:

I work with folks whose sole response to the rise in racist violence is to laugh derisively and to say "maybe they should just go to their 'safe zones'".

I need to move the hell out of this sh1thole, because I am quite likely to beat the everloving snail snot out of someone.

If you think you're going to escape that by moving just north of Seattle, you're sadly mistaken.

Paleocon wrote:

I work with folks whose sole response to the rise in racist violence is to laugh derisively and to say "maybe they should just go to their 'safe zones'".

Do they also cry and clutch pearls over being called racist? Because if there was one thing that was confirmed over the past week, it's that no one demands a safe zone more obnoxiously than those who style themselves "anti-PC."

When you have to weigh the decision of being shot by the police or being killed by fascists, it's a no-win situation.

Being a Black Woman Gun Owner Feels Like A Risk Worth Taking After Trump's Win

Edwin wrote:

When you have to weigh the decision of being shot by the police or being killed by fascists, it's a no-win situation.

Being a Black Woman Gun Owner Feels Like A Risk Worth Taking After Trump's Win

There's also the possibility that these are one in the same.

"One *and* the same".

Robear wrote:

"One *and* the same". :-)

Yeah. Come on. Autocorrect or not we can't allow our grammar to decline in this dystopia.

It's part of the plan to pass as a real 'Murican.

This shaming of drunk typing is the real problem!

Oh, well, that's okay then. I approve of drunk typing. It's the modern art of the Internet age.

Robear wrote:

Oh, well, that's okay then. I approve of drunk typing. It's the modern art of the Internet age. :-)

It privileges the process over the product!

OMG nooooooo!

Nazis. In my f*cking neighborhood. I can't tell you how pissed off this makes me. I left my home to escape sh*t like this.

IMAGE(https://d3dqvga78raec5.cloudfront.net/post_photos/5c/b2/5cb28cd628122b43d460a579a6bc6040.JPG.max800.JPG)

Goddamn, that could come out of Bioshock Infinite.

I can't believe that's real.

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