Hamilton

There are two tickets available for Saturday's show in Chicago. About $250 apiece.

My kids don't really need to eat, right?

BadKen wrote:
CptDomano wrote:
PaladinTom wrote:

and it...

I CAN DO THIS ALL DAY, PEOPLE

See, that song is a perfect example of the kind of playing around with themes I was talking about. The "one two three four..." musical phrase is used as a break several times in the song before the end. And since the audience has already heard the same melodic line in "Ten Duel Commandments," it's a subtle clue to what's coming. Just brilliant.

It's also the song that Eliza is teaching young Philip (who is turning 9) during "Take A Break"

"Un deux trois quatre
Cinq six sept huit neuf"

Good.

Then you get into the stuff like how Jefferson's songs tend to have a more boogie-woogie, old time feel to reflect that he represented the old guard, while Hamilton represented the new.

There are so so many reprises, callbacks, motifs - whatever they're called in this context (I'm not a musician) in almost every song that give this music such a great "texture."

I can't think of another way to describe it when I'm trying to tell someone about it. It too simplistic to simply say it's a Broadway show about a founding father and there's a lot of rap in it.

"I'm not throwing away my shot."
"Raise a glass to freedom..."
"I imagine death so much it feels more like a memory."
"Jefferson's coming home" and later "George Washington's going home."
"It must be nice..." and later "It might be nice..."

Spoiler:

I've been listening to this again on Spotify all day.

Motifs and themes are what you're looking for.

I fantasize about doing Cabinet Battle #1 for karaoke, but I have yet to see anything from Hamilton hit the karaoke hosts I frequent yet.

Chaz wrote:

Then you get into the stuff like how Jefferson's songs tend to have a more boogie-woogie, old time feel to reflect that he represented the old guard, while Hamilton represented the new.

Ha! I thought it's more bluesy, referencing his southern upbringing and taking jab at slavery in his home at the same time. Anyway, you made me pick up Hamilton: The Revolution just to clear this out: "He was full generation older than Hamilton... I wrote [Jefferson] in jazzy, proto-hip-hop, but not the boom bap of Hamilton. He has just as much fun with words, but they swing and they sing."

In other words, you are right! After eight months of listening to it non-stop I'm still picking out new stuff.

Hamilton taught me so much about early American history. This is what is basically taught in Europe: "people threw tea in the sea. There was a war. Americans won and George Washington has become president, with French help. Then came another war, they freed slaves and assassinated Lincoln. Then they joined First World War. Then the Second One. There were some economic problems in between." However, the whole history of building a new country is just so fascinating to follow. I read through Chernow's Hamilton and Washington and several other books recommended by fellow goodjers. I always found Washington fascinating in the musical, but reading the historical accounts I now admire him even more. US would be so much different if he had a different personality.

I fancy myself a bit of a history buff but Hamilton definitely taught me some things. For example, I didn't realize Hamilton had been a legit war hero. I have heard from a couple of British friends that while Burr is portrayed as a sympathetic villain, King George is falsely maligned as a dictator. I guess in the UK he's seen as a decent ruler who through no fault of his own went crazy in his later years. And the English govt was far more enlightened than our French allies. But I still love the king's abusive boyfriend songs in the play.

Another aspect of Hamilton that hasn't been mentioned yet in thread (I think) is how much of a love letter it is to New York City.

Tanglebones wrote:

Another aspect of Hamilton that hasn't been mentioned yet in thread (I think) is how much of a love letter it is to New York City.

"History is happening in Manhattan and we just happen to be / In the greatest city in the world!" is kind of a tip-off when you listen to "The Schuyler Sisters".

Tanglebones wrote:

Another aspect of Hamilton that hasn't been mentioned yet in thread (I think) is how much of a love letter it is to New York City.

Related: In the Heights, Lin's first Broadway production. Had the fortune to see him in it while on a high school trip. He infuses so much of himself into everything he writes.

ActualDragon wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Another aspect of Hamilton that hasn't been mentioned yet in thread (I think) is how much of a love letter it is to New York City.

Related: In the Heights, Lin's first Broadway production. Had the fortune to see him in it while on a high school trip. He infuses so much of himself into everything he writes.

I've not seen it, but In The Heights is being made into a movie. I also wish there was a way for more people to experience this show. I know they're doing other cities now but I want this show to somehow serve as way to bring modern Broadway to the masses.

PaladinTom wrote:
ActualDragon wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Another aspect of Hamilton that hasn't been mentioned yet in thread (I think) is how much of a love letter it is to New York City.

Related: In the Heights, Lin's first Broadway production. Had the fortune to see him in it while on a high school trip. He infuses so much of himself into everything he writes.

I've not seen it, but In The Heights is being made into a movie. I also wish there was a way for more people to experience this show. I know they're doing other cities now but I want this show to somehow serve as way to bring modern Broadway to the masses.

Me too. I just get the feeling that there's a certain amount of elitism that surrounds theater that would keep this from happening. I'll definitely agree that there's something magical about live theater, but if I had to decide between getting that magic and never seeing the thing, I'd give up the magic in a heartbeat.

I guess the main real argument against releasing a filmed version of the show is that it would hurt their ticket sales. The question is how much would that happen? I think that it wouldn't actually hurt that much. Those people who have the means to go live would still do it, and people who don't have the means would get to see it, and they weren't going to see it live anyway. It's also possible that the non-theater fans might become fans, and then go see other shows.

Chaz wrote:
PaladinTom wrote:
ActualDragon wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Another aspect of Hamilton that hasn't been mentioned yet in thread (I think) is how much of a love letter it is to New York City.

Related: In the Heights, Lin's first Broadway production. Had the fortune to see him in it while on a high school trip. He infuses so much of himself into everything he writes.

I've not seen it, but In The Heights is being made into a movie. I also wish there was a way for more people to experience this show. I know they're doing other cities now but I want this show to somehow serve as way to bring modern Broadway to the masses.

Me too. I just get the feeling that there's a certain amount of elitism that surrounds theater that would keep this from happening. I'll definitely agree that there's something magical about live theater, but if I had to decide between getting that magic and never seeing the thing, I'd give up the magic in a heartbeat.

I guess the main real argument against releasing a filmed version of the show is that it would hurt their ticket sales. The question is how much would that happen? I think that it wouldn't actually hurt that much. Those people who have the means to go live would still do it, and people who don't have the means would get to see it, and they weren't going to see it live anyway. It's also possible that the non-theater fans might become fans, and then go see other shows.

Lin himself doesn't like the elitism around it - hence the reservation of so many tickets for the lottery each day. He also started the #Ham4Ham tradition where a couple of the actors will put on a little show outside the doors for all the people waiting for the lottery. That way all the people who won't get seats still get to see a little show. They've even brought in other famous guests on it - it's all quite adorable.

And I don't know a single person who wouldn't go see a live show just because a filmed version exists. I've gone to see Wicked and Once a couple times on stage just because I love them, and would do so in a heartbeat for a list of other shows. Including ones like Chicago that have well-loved movie adaptations. Broadway is such a difficult thing to be a fan of when you don't live in NYC with a lot of disposable income. And that's sad, because it makes it hard for me to share something I love with other people.

wanderingtaoist wrote:

Hamilton taught me so much about early American history. This is what is basically taught in Europe: "people threw tea in the sea. There was a war. Americans won and George Washington has become president, with French help. Then came another war, they freed slaves and assassinated Lincoln. Then they joined First World War. Then the Second One. There were some economic problems in between." However, the whole history of building a new country is just so fascinating to follow. I read through Chernow's Hamilton and Washington and several other books recommended by fellow goodjers. I always found Washington fascinating in the musical, but reading the historical accounts I now admire him even more. US would be so much different if he had a different personality.

If you want an interesting and educational look at the American Civil War, you should have a look at Spielberg's Lincoln. It does an incredible job of showing how politics work in the US. There's a reason Hillary Clinton called it "a master class" in how the sausage is made in DC. Also Daniel Day Lewis' Oscar-winning performance is remarkable.

Unfortunately, it's not a musical.

Of course if you have a lot more time, watch Ken Burns' documentary The Civil War. It's widely regarded as the best American documentary about anything.

I have enjoyed Lincoln immensely and it's one of my recommendations for anyone interested in American politics. I rewatch it every year, actually, it's so good.

BadKen wrote:

Of course if you have a lot more time, watch Ken Burns' documentary The Civil War. It's widely regarded as the best American documentary about anything.

What would be the best documentary about the War of Independence then?

Brainsmith wrote:
BadKen wrote:

Of course if you have a lot more time, watch Ken Burns' documentary The Civil War. It's widely regarded as the best American documentary about anything.

What would be the best documentary about the War of Independence then?

I really don't know. I have a feeling my dad would know, because he's loves him some Founding Fathers stories. The History Channel did a mini-series on the American Revolution, which I note is variously called "The Revolution" and "The American Revolution." I haven't seen it though. The HBO series John Adams is well regarded, and I enjoyed it, but obviously its focus is somewhat narrow. I'll have to ask my dad next time I see him.

Maybe Assassin's Creed 3?

jdzappa wrote:

I fancy myself a bit of a history buff but Hamilton definitely taught me some things. For example, I didn't realize Hamilton had been a legit war hero. I have heard from a couple of British friends that while Burr is portrayed as a sympathetic villain, King George is falsely maligned as a dictator. I guess in the UK he's seen as a decent ruler who through no fault of his own went crazy in his later years. And the English govt was far more enlightened than our French allies. But I still love the king's abusive boyfriend songs in the play.

In college I had a British professor teach the revolutionary war from the British perspective. It was pretty interesting. He made a pretty good case that the taxes that the colonists thought were so onerous were, 1 comparable to taxes everyone else was paying, 2 Justified by the large expenditure that England had to make to protect the US in the French and Indian war.

The way it's normally told to kids in school over here is that it wasn't the amount of tax, but rather that we had no control over the resulting government. "Taxation without representation" -- we had to pay for a government we had no voice in.

The only place I've seen the taxes implied to be excessive was in the Colonization games, where the monarch keeps hiking taxes until you have to declare independence.

I have no idea if what was taught in school was accurate, but they certainly didn't paint the burden itself as being excessive, just the fact that we weren't being listened to.

It's possible, of course, that this was just an excuse, the false front on the real motivations.

The Declaration of Independance has a full list of the colonial grievances, though of course it was written after the fighting had been going on for a while:

Spoiler:

Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness of his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Could just be me, but that reads like a little bit more than just upset about tax rates.

I had a whole spiel here, but decided against leaving it lest this topic land in D&D.

I will share that my mom, who dislikes hip-hop and rap (because it's "not music" and she can't understand what they're saying), saw the Hamilton PBS special and now she really wants to see Hamilton. "I could understand what they were saying!" she said.

I'll just stop in here to let you all know about the podcast The Room Where It's Happening, which is amazing. The episode with John Hodgeman as a guest is particularly good.

Just finished watching the PBS documentary. That's one I'll have to own.

Apparently the touring company will be coming to my area in like 2018, and the current deal is that renewing season ticket holders for the 2016, 2017, and 2018 years will get first dibs. Makes sense, but makes it that much harder to imagine I'll be able to get tickets. For about 2 weeks I wrestled with if it'd be worth three years of season tickets just to get to see Hamilton. I settled on the side of "cannot afford that" but I will definitely be taking a day off work and F5ing the page or waiting in line all night if need be to try and get tickets a few years from now.

Just sad there was really no way I could ever have seen it with LMM as Hamilton. Some things are just impossible-- sad, and impossible.

Had a dream last night I met LMM-- twice. I think I've got Hamilton on the brain.

Antichulius wrote:

Just sad there was really no way I could ever have seen it with LMM as Hamilton. Some things are just impossible-- sad, and impossible.

He is supposed to reprise his role in the London production a while after its start in late 2017 though, but travelling half around the world for a musical might be too much. (Considering the low Pound nowadays the tickets themselves might turn cheaper at least.)

I wholeheartedly approve this thread. Hamilton is the first musical since Rent where I've known it inside and out before even seeing it, all due to the genius in the score and book. Incredible.

Stumbled across these short videos about some of the choreography. I'm fascinated by how much symbolism he packs into each move:

Also the way good dancers move just astounds me. That's the one of the big three (besides acting and singing) that I never quite got comfortable with.

Wow, I haven't seen much about the choreography. That's intense and amazing. Thanks for posting!

YEEEESSSS.