Bioshock Infinite Catch-All

Bioshock 2 really starts to sing once you get through Pauper's Drop. It ends with the first good choice of the game and the mechanics, for me, started to come together properly.

There are two things I disliked about Bioshock 2:

1) No horde mode designed around building traps and defenses with other players. I put this under "Meh, woulda been nice" alongside traditional Battle Mode in Mario Kart 8. It's a wishlist item.

2) I dunno if it was a real problem in the original Bioshock or I noticed it in Bioshock 2 more, but at some point in the game I'll be sitting there prepping traps or looking around to read the environment or find audio logs and suddenly a mother f*cker will spawn and attack or spawn and step into a trap and force me to reset a bunch of crap. I don't remember this being an issue in the first game, but their attempt to make Rapture feel "lived in" in the sequel had a real knack for pissing me off.

Otherwise, the combat is probably the best of all three games. I'd have to revisit all three stories again to really have a judgment on where it stands on that front, but they did a good job with that, too.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Bioshock 2 really starts to sing once you get through Pauper's Drop. It ends with the first good choice of the game and the mechanics, for me, started to come together properly.

It's definitely been improving as I go along. The intro stuff is really weak unfortunately. But I am noticing things that it seems like Infinite tried to copy, like the ultra-violence near the start where control is wrest away and you jump on splicers and drill one in the head. Very very reminiscent of the scene in Infinite when you skyhook the dude in the face early on. (It's interesting too that BioShock 1 didn't pull away player control until That Scene but BS2/Infinite are more than happy to do so within the first 15-30 minutes)

And the Hall of Heroes section in Soldier's Field feels like a direct nod to Ryan Amusements.

ccesarano wrote:

1) No horde mode designed around building traps and defenses with other players. I put this under "Meh, woulda been nice" alongside traditional Battle Mode in Mario Kart 8. It's a wishlist item.

To be fair, you could level that at all the games in the franchise. I assume this is a problem specifically with 2 because it's the one with the multiplayer no one asked for?

2) I dunno if it was a real problem in the original BioShock or I noticed it in BioShock 2 more, but at some point in the game I'll be sitting there prepping traps or looking around to read the environment or find audio logs and suddenly a mother f*cker will spawn and attack or spawn and step into a trap and force me to reset a bunch of crap. I don't remember this being an issue in the first game, but their attempt to make Rapture feel "lived in" in the sequel had a real knack for pissing me off.

BioShock definitely had "monster spawns and gets in your face when you turn around" moments. Hit one of these last night in Ryan Amusements. And there's the infamous one in Infinite. It's pretty much a trope for the franchise, although I wonder if it started as a callback to something in either of the System Shock games (which I've not played).

shoptroll wrote:

To be fair, you could level that at all the games in the franchise. I assume this is a problem specifically with 2 because it's the one with the multiplayer no one asked for?

More that the nature of guarding the Little Sister is a system that transfers easily to Horde Mode so perfectly. I actually liked the multiplayer in Bioshock 2 well enough, but I'd have rather they scrapped all that and made a Horde mode instead.

BioShock definitely had "monster spawns and gets in your face when you turn around" moments. Hit one of these last night in Ryan Amusements. And there's the infamous one in Infinite. It's pretty much a trope for the franchise, although I wonder if it started as a callback to something in either of the System Shock games (which I've not played).

Oh, I'm not talking about the scripted "in your face at this moment". In fact, one of those in the original Bioshock is perfectly memorable to me. I'm saying "Uh oh, the player hasn't fought anything for fifteen minutes. We gotta spawn an enemy so they don't get bored or so they think Rapture is much more lively." The foe will just be wandering around muttering gibberish as he enters whatever random door is available and won't act hostile until they actually see you. And it makes exploring the environment annoying because some of us like to take our time, game! >:(

ccesarano wrote:

More that the nature of guarding the Little Sister is a system that transfers easily to Horde Mode so perfectly. I actually liked the multiplayer in Bioshock 2 well enough, but I'd have rather they scrapped all that and made a Horde mode instead.

Gotcha. The Little Sister events are a much better way to do set-piece "a bunch of mooks run into the room" encounters than Infinite's "you crossed a hot spot in this conspiculously looking set piece room, let's rumble". I have full control over when the combat initiates and that gives me time to prepare. It also helps that 2 doesn't have the stupid 2 weapon limit because it wasn't trying to gussy up itself as a modern AAA FPS.

Oh, I'm not talking about the scripted "in your face at this moment". In fact, one of those in the original Bioshock is perfectly memorable to me. I'm saying "Uh oh, the player hasn't fought anything for fifteen minutes. We gotta spawn an enemy so they don't get bored or so they think Rapture is much more lively." The foe will just be wandering around muttering gibberish as he enters whatever random door is available and won't act hostile until they actually see you. And it makes exploring the environment annoying because some of us like to take our time, game! >:(

Yup that also happens in BioShock 1. I find that's more a problem earlier in the game when regular splicers are relatively dangerous. By the end of BS1 I remember just blowing them away. What's more annoying to me is that you can hear them gibbering and it takes forever for them to find you and you're just trying to get on with your business. I'm not sure if it's intended to create a "lived in" feeling or if it's just for keeping a minimum level of tension going. I remember this would drive me nuts in the original Doom where you could often hear the monsters making noises long before they appeared, and I swear some of the levels just played the noises randomly anyways just to mess with your head.

Still better than the enemy placement in Infinite though!

OH! This thread being active reminds me: a while back I went looking for what Julia Ormond's character wore in an HBO movie called Iron Jawed Angels, thinking Elizabeth's second outfit reminded me of something. Didn't find anything, but did find this which reminded me of the chair scene, and considering the song, I always wondered if it was an influence on Bioshock: Infinite (trigger warning):

Welp, I made two false starts with BioShock 2 because it totally didn't work for me, but I loved the other two, so maybe now that this collection is coming out I'll play all three games and give the second one another chance.

How far in 2 did you get? The first hour is not nearly as strong a start as the other two games.

Not too far, maybe two hours max. I remember liking the combat much less and the story not doing anything for me by that point, but I also think I was in a sour state of mind regarding gaming in general at the time. I'll give it another shot.

The opening couple hours of Bioshock 2 I think are meant as a mini-tour of Bioshock (almost literally), covering its story and gameplay and key ideas. If you played the first game, then the face it presents is of a bland copy of its predecessor; if you're at all suspicious of the game as an unnecessary cash-in sequel, the opening hours will cater to your worst assumptions.

Past that introduction, the game really starts to differentiate itself. The story gets more complex and interesting, and it adds new depth and layers to the original story of Rapture that serve in some ways to make Bioshock better. New abilities and weapons help the combat feel different and (in my opinion) more interesting, and the set piece defenses of Little Sisters really let all your weapons and abilities shine.

I understand why they did the introduction the way they did. 2K expected Bioshock 2 to be a big hit that reached a wider audience than the original game, and they wanted new players to have a way in to the political and metaphysical ecosystem of Rapture. To understand Delta, Big Sister, Eleanor, and Sophia Lamb, it's crucial that you understand Big Daddies, Little Sisters, Andrew Ryan, and Rapture, and they didn't feel like they could count on everyone having played the first game.

But again, anyone with even the slightest suspicion that Bioshock 2 was unnecessary or a rehash was going to spend some time playing through exactly that. It was a bad way to bring players back, even if it was a good way to bring new players in.

I'm a big fan of doing full-series replays, especially when updates come out, but I'm really having a hard time talking myself into replaying Infinite after BS1 & 2. I had issues with the combat and the weird Epcot Center vibe of the world, but I remember thinking it was amazing as the end credits rolled.

On reflection, meh. The writing is great in individual moments, but it never coheres into anything nearly as interesting or powerful as it seems to be aiming for. And the plot is...well, I guess people who payed closer attention than I did fully understand the plot, but for me it spiraled into incoherence around the middle of the second act, and never regained its footing. Burial At Sea (which I did enjoy, particularly part 2) just made it even worse.

It also doesn't help that 1999 mode basically just makes the game harder without making it any more like the previous (better) Shock games.

Still, I consider it to have the best pair of opening and closing scenes of any game I've played (except maybe for The Last of Us). I just don't think that's enough to get me to play it again.

So....anyone pick up the collection yet? I already own all three on Steam, plan on at least trying out the remastered version of the original tonight. I'm curious to see what people think of the console versions.

2 1/2 hours and counting...

(2K Games' info page says the Steam updates go live at 3PM Pacific time)

I'd like to, but I have enough on my plate and don't think the expense is practical at the time.

It's definitely on my "want" list, though.

You never played Bioshock?

Oh goodness, I've played all three! And I know I've spent a lot of words discussing the narrative of Infinite in this very thread. But I wouldn't mind having prettier PS4 versions of all three, either.

Yikes, the mouse controls in the Remastered version seem even worse than in the original PC port. I can barely move the cursor in the menus, but it's incredibly sensitive in game, even on the lowest setting.

Maybe I won't be replaying these after all.

Rolling Stone interview with Ken Levine about the series

ClockworkHouse wrote:

The opening couple hours of Bioshock 2 I think are meant as a mini-tour of Bioshock (almost literally), covering its story and gameplay and key ideas. If you played the first game, then the face it presents is of a bland copy of its predecessor; if you're at all suspicious of the game as an unnecessary cash-in sequel, the opening hours will cater to your worst assumptions.

Past that introduction, the game really starts to differentiate itself. The story gets more complex and interesting, and it adds new depth and layers to the original story of Rapture that serve in some ways to make Bioshock better. New abilities and weapons help the combat feel different and (in my opinion) more interesting, and the set piece defenses of Little Sisters really let all your weapons and abilities shine.

This is pretty spot on with my experience so far. The intro (really the first two levels) is incredibly slow especially if you've already played BioShock.

Absolutely loving the Little Sister defense stuff. I loved the risk/reward of dealing with Big Daddies in the original game and having another layer added to that loop is great. Definitely one of the things I've realized Infinite is lacking: there was rarely ever any reward for dealing with the "heavy hitter" enemies they hyped up as Big Daddy analogues. Not to mention the fact you never really got to deal with them on your own terms.

Phew, I actually got the mouse issues fixed. Mouse acceleration fix from the original game still works. Now I just need to remap the controls and get the FOV figured out, and I'll be golden.

So Bioshock 1 runs and looks great, but for some reason I can only get stereo sound. The weird thing is I can hear audio out of the surround speakers up until I actually get into the game. Must be a bug or something, hopefully it will get fixed. The original PC version supported surround sound so I would think this one should as well.

With Bioshock 2 I get no audio at all, save for when the intro movies are playing. I've tried every different setting in the options and it doesn't make a difference. On the plus side at least it also runs and looks great, so there's that.

In the end I have mixed opinions on these remasters. Visuals are really good, audio is a mixed bag. I'm hoping to see a patch that cleans these issues up very soon. I guess I could at least play Bioshock with stereo sound while I wait. Since I received both for free I really can't complain, if I had actually paid for them I would probably be a bit irritated.

Started playing a bit of the original Bioshock just to see how it looks. Looks pretty good but I don't think I'll be playing through it again. Maybe I'll give Bioshock 2 another go since I remember that far less. Also, I forgot how much the first Bioshock was a horror game. Maybe that's why it doesn't appeal to me as much as Infinite does. Horror games aren't really a genre I enjoy that much.

Glycerine wrote:

So Bioshock 1 runs and looks great, but for some reason I can only get stereo sound. The weird thing is I can hear audio out of the surround speakers up until I actually get into the game. Must be a bug or something, hopefully it will get fixed. The original PC version supported surround sound so I would think this one should as well.

With Bioshock 2 I get no audio at all, save for when the intro movies are playing. I've tried every different setting in the options and it doesn't make a difference. On the plus side at least it also runs and looks great, so there's that.

In the end I have mixed opinions on these remasters. Visuals are really good, audio is a mixed bag. I'm hoping to see a patch that cleans these issues up very soon. I guess I could at least play Bioshock with stereo sound while I wait. Since I received both for free I really can't complain, if I had actually paid for them I would probably be a bit irritated.

Sounds like there's an INI tweak needed for 5.1 audio: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...

beanman101283 wrote:
Glycerine wrote:

So Bioshock 1 runs and looks great, but for some reason I can only get stereo sound. The weird thing is I can hear audio out of the surround speakers up until I actually get into the game. Must be a bug or something, hopefully it will get fixed. The original PC version supported surround sound so I would think this one should as well.

With Bioshock 2 I get no audio at all, save for when the intro movies are playing. I've tried every different setting in the options and it doesn't make a difference. On the plus side at least it also runs and looks great, so there's that.

In the end I have mixed opinions on these remasters. Visuals are really good, audio is a mixed bag. I'm hoping to see a patch that cleans these issues up very soon. I guess I could at least play Bioshock with stereo sound while I wait. Since I received both for free I really can't complain, if I had actually paid for them I would probably be a bit irritated.

Sounds like there's an INI tweak needed for 5.1 audio: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...

Thank you for posting I will give that a try. I found a similar ini change in the Steam forums but could not get it to work. That fix was missing a couple changes this one mentions so maybe it will. Fingers crossed.

I remember those exact same issues when the games originally came out, specifically the mouse smoothing and the surround sound problem. In fact, I think that's why I abandoned BioShock 2 the first time I tried it, because certain in-world sound effects would just not play through my (at the time) 5.1 headphones.

Disappointing that this is another remastered collection where the PC version was clearly a low priority for them.