[Discussion] Welcome to Discussions & Debates!

The place to discuss the changes to what was once P&C.

Welcome to Discussions & Debates!*

When we'd started GWJ 13 years ago we didn't even have a forum section like this because we'd never assumed a bunch of video game fans would want to discuss worldly events. It quickly became apparent that as we got to know each other and feel comfortable in the community we also wanted to delve into some pretty heavy stuff. So P&C was born and I dare say it's lead to a lot of personal growth and deeper understanding of the world at large and the people who live here. I know I've learned a lot and changed a ton thanks to P&C.

A few months ago we had a big thread about the P&C section of the site, what it means to us and what we'd like to get out of it. As I read through it I realized that our old code of conduct (which we wrote early in the site's life) wasn't keeping up with the concerns of the day or representing the full diversity of our community. I also recognized that anything I came up with would be incomplete by nature because my point of view was limited to my own direct experiences.

To that end I reached out to Hypatian and sometimesdee and we read through the whole thread together and took copious notes. Why them? I'll be honest, it's mostly because in the past they've called me on my sh*t and they're respected by the community at large. They also represent viewpoints and experiences different from my own and that's exactly what we needed here.

After a few hours working through all the feedback and forming the bones of what a new P&C could look like, I sprung my devious trap and asked them to collaborate on writing the Code of Conduct and ultimately helping me moderate this section of the forums. I'm incredibly grateful they said yes! Double special thanks to Hypatian for doing the bulk of the first draft writing so we had a strong base to work from.

The ultimate goal here is giving the creator of a given thread some extra tools so people who'd like to jump in have a clear idea of what the intention behind it is. You can read the new CoC for clarifications on what these different thread categories are and how they work. I'm anticipating most threads will still be "Discussion" threads much like they are now, but there's also some additional options in there.

More moderators? I fear change and this is the beginning of the end!

While Hyp and dee will be moderating within the scope of the CoC and obvious infractions, we'll be collaborating on the stickier issues and ultimately the decision to ban someone is up to me. On a practical level, I just can't keep up with the sheer bulk of comments anymore so some extra hands and eyes will be really helpful.

Categories and Scopes are going to create exclusionary, echo chamber threads!

I'm not really expecting that to be the case. If anything, the added guidelines should lead to deeper, more varied discussions when the "basic" assumptions of the topic are laid out up front.

Does my scope have to be really specific?

Not at all. It could be as simple as "This thread is for discussing all aspects of the 2016 Presidential election." A scope is as wide or narrow as you want to make it.

Is this new category thing site-wide?

This section only. The new Code of Conduct on the general site will be updated though.

Why the new name?

It's part of that wider intention for clarity of purpose. "Politics and Controversy" lends a certain aggressive tone that doesn't fit anymore.

We're not anticipating everything being perfect from day one, so please report any technical bugs or issues. After over a decade of doing it one way it will take some getting used to, so try to give it a few days before offering any broader feedback on the overall structure.

Thanks for reading! Also big thanks to Jeff Beeman for the technical aspects of getting all this in place.

*I don't think D&D is used for anything else so we should be fine.

Sounds good.

D&D.

I'm very happy to see additional moderators, and I think it'll benefit the site as a whole. Thanks for your work, moderators!

Really liking the new mission statement & guidelines.

Thanks to all for helping make this one of the most vital resources for social/political discourse online.

Thank you, Certis! And much thanks to our new moderators for saying, "Yes!"

Great. Glad to hear Hypatian and Dee were involved. I trust them implicitly. I liked the outdoor cat example. It's funny because it's true...

Look forward to kicking the tires on this in the coming weeks - huge huge thanks to Dee and Hypatia for agreeing to help moderate.

Paleo will need to update his tag.

A clean slate! I'm super tempted never to comment just to keep my 'recent' feed clear.

PaladinTom wrote:

A clean slate! I'm super tempted never to comment just to keep my 'recent' feed clear.

Too late. ^

Love the new mission-vision, and I especially love the format. Clarity of purpose is something that really gets me going.

This looks great. Love the expanded terms.

I really appreciate the effort that you guys have put into the section of the site that must be the least used, but biggest pain in the butt. It's been of huge benefit to me over the years, so I'm glad to see it remain and develop.

Welcome to the new mods, I for one am going to try keep your lives as simple as possible.

I just want to thank everyone involved in making P&C 2.0 happen. It really looks great.

The Code of Conduct is truly a thing of beauty. Just... wow. Imagine if all social media had similar rules.

The thought and work you put into the revamped P&C uh I mean D&D speaks volumes about your love and dedication for this here oasis in the scorching desert that is the internet.

I can't thank you enough, looking forward to keep learning about crazy America and surrounding parishes.!

Super excited. Super grateful.

Thank you.

I really like all of these changes, great job to everyone involved with the new CoC and with creating D&D!

Cautiously optimistic.
I know at least part of the draw of P&C was the seemingly inevitable trainwrecks some topics instigated. There's catharsis in watching conflicts you experience in life being evicerated, analyzed, and otherwise dragged under the piercing spotlight that the minds inhabiting that realm could unleash.
I've been here long enough to recognize the slow evolution of the forum, and I am both happy and somewhat sad to see this change.
I like to pretend that I am a better person because of the things I have learned from the old forum, or at least more aware of the shortcomings I continually need to address in how I perceive the world. My privilege lets me believe that there is value in tough but fair environments. The people here have convinced me that the abstraction protecting me is not universal and that real damage, beyond wounded feelings, is possible. I welcome this experiment and hope it bears fruit.
Thank you.

My wife was wondering why this was being done.

My wife... who doesn't even have an account on here.

Over the years I've appreciated P&C, and talked it up as this shining example of what can happen with difficult topics in a community done right. Oh, it's not perfect. Sometimes it's far from that; However, even at its most imperfect this place is a shining beacon of fairness and good will when compared to the internet itself.

There are times when I bring "home" the things that go on here and discuss them with her. This change was one of those times, and she responded negatively (at first). She had a lot of questions - mainly because she knows what GWJ means to me. Totally understandable.

Know what I did? I went to this topic and the CoC and answered her questions with your words. I also explained that this wasn't actually much of a change at all (except for the addition of some new moderators!). The CoC and these structural changes codify practices which we tended to use anyway when things were at their best. Thread creators already had these controls. Thread categories were used occasionally. Derails were often being taken to their own threads. Now guidelines for usage and the intent of thread creators are going to be more clear, and we have additional moderation to back them up.

She still seems a bit wary, but she's cool with it. It's not something intended to stifle or exert undue control over expression in one of her husband's favorite places for that. It's something intended to protect and encourage expression in several different forms.

As for me, I feel encouraged. P&C was headed this way anyway IMO. Thanks for helping it along!

tough but fair environments

P&C was tough, but it was too frequently unfair. I am happy to see it replaced with something that does more good for more people.

I am sure this new version will grow into its own form but I think the framework is great and I hope we can all work to make a great spot for discussion.

Congratulations! Looking forward to seeing how this shakes out over a few months.

Thanks, all! I have the feeling I am just starting to float my raft into the waters between Scylla and Charybdis, but you all give me hope. :>

Hypatian wrote:

Thanks, all! I have the feeling I am just starting to float my raft into the waters between Scylla and Charybdis, but you all give me hope. :>

It's dangerous to go alone. Take this.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/I13i4jk.jpg)

Wait, does this mean less posting from dee and Hyp? I don't like the idea of that! :'(

You heard it here folks, Certis invented D&D

On a more serious note, I'm really excited about the new format and the new moderators. This is a good change

Demosthenes wrote:

Wait, does this mean less posting from dee and Hyp? I don't like the idea of that! :'(

Nah. Hyp and I will make it very clear when we're wearing our mod hats, and my mini-modding is now officially sanctioned.

sometimesdee wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

Wait, does this mean less posting from dee and Hyp? I don't like the idea of that! :'(

Nah. Hyp and I will make it very clear when we're wearing our mod hats, and my mini-modding is now officially sanctioned. :D

Woo! \o/

BadKen wrote:

making P&C 2.0 happen.

And thus began the D&D Edition Wars.

Good post, by the way, among many others--Hyp, dig the new avatar, and kudos for making a reference to classical Police songs.

Agree with the general sentiment the new CoC embodies GWJ's civilized and mostly genteel approach to discourse.

I think it's implied in the CoC but it might not hurt to have an explicit rule against dogpiling/echo chambers? Perhaps wait and see how the [debate] threads develop before taking action.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

Hyp, dig the new avatar, and kudos for making a reference to classical Police songs. ;)

IMAGE(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/1b/1bae09fb2ecdd32e63311526238fb66456ffd699a857396004d37ccf0098303a.jpg)

Hypatian wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

Hyp, dig the new avatar, and kudos for making a reference to classical Police songs. ;)

IMAGE(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/1b/1bae09fb2ecdd32e63311526238fb66456ffd699a857396004d37ccf0098303a.jpg)

Hmm...

classical Police songs

maybe very, very subtle joking?

Not sure if this is the right place, and I don't mean to seem ungrateful to the amount of work you guys have already done to bring us the new features, but I have a new feature request already.

It's really hard to find previous posts, which is especially onerous given the time and effort that goes into making a lot of the posts here. As an example Minimum Wage just came up in a thread, and I know that at some point in the last year or two I made a post about the subject that was at least tolerably well-researched and had some links I would have liked to post.

If we could search posts by content and author, or even better by those and also tags on individual posts (so I could have tagged the post "minimum wage", "citation", or something like that) then I probably would have been able to find it pretty easily.

Thanks again for the new changes!