US Elections for the Political Noob

Robear wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I suspect you will see a lot more of the sort of thing you saw with Rick Perry's speech at ALEC last month and folks trying to really make the platform relevant to non whites in sincere ways. It will come off as comical at first and may take years to gain traction, but I suspect you will see a very different GOP in 2020. Hopefully, it will be less about "winning" and more about introducing ideas that can make a meaningful difference for Americans.

The GOP has turned its particular brand of identity-over-facts ideology into a media profit center, so not only do we have to wait until its consumers die off, but we have to somehow make sure another generation is not inculcated with the same propaganda. I'm not optimistic that this can be done without breaking the media behind it.

As long as the message is profitable, it will flourish.

The question is how long can it continue to flourish in the face of near constant defeat? The demographics are very much against them. And it appears that they will continue to move in that direction with a rapidity for which they are unprepared. When Texas goes, they will truly be in the wilderness.

Paleocon wrote:
Robear wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I suspect you will see a lot more of the sort of thing you saw with Rick Perry's speech at ALEC last month and folks trying to really make the platform relevant to non whites in sincere ways. It will come off as comical at first and may take years to gain traction, but I suspect you will see a very different GOP in 2020. Hopefully, it will be less about "winning" and more about introducing ideas that can make a meaningful difference for Americans.

The GOP has turned its particular brand of identity-over-facts ideology into a media profit center, so not only do we have to wait until its consumers die off, but we have to somehow make sure another generation is not inculcated with the same propaganda. I'm not optimistic that this can be done without breaking the media behind it.

As long as the message is profitable, it will flourish.

The question is how long can it continue to flourish in the face of near constant defeat? The demographics are very much against them. And it appears that they will continue to move in that direction with a rapidity for which they are unprepared. When Texas goes, they will truly be in the wilderness.

And just like that, PPP has a poll today showing Trump only +6 in TX

Paleocon wrote:
Robear wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I suspect you will see a lot more of the sort of thing you saw with Rick Perry's speech at ALEC last month and folks trying to really make the platform relevant to non whites in sincere ways. It will come off as comical at first and may take years to gain traction, but I suspect you will see a very different GOP in 2020. Hopefully, it will be less about "winning" and more about introducing ideas that can make a meaningful difference for Americans.

The GOP has turned its particular brand of identity-over-facts ideology into a media profit center, so not only do we have to wait until its consumers die off, but we have to somehow make sure another generation is not inculcated with the same propaganda. I'm not optimistic that this can be done without breaking the media behind it.

As long as the message is profitable, it will flourish.

The question is how long can it continue to flourish in the face of near constant defeat? The demographics are very much against them. And it appears that they will continue to move in that direction with a rapidity for which they are unprepared. When Texas goes, they will truly be in the wilderness.

Given that a good part of the media over the last 8 years has been an eternal victimhood, picked up from evangelicals who believe the laws of the land should reflect their faith, exclusively... I suspect they could continue to flourish in political loss for... possibly indefinitely.

Demosthenes wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Robear wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I suspect you will see a lot more of the sort of thing you saw with Rick Perry's speech at ALEC last month and folks trying to really make the platform relevant to non whites in sincere ways. It will come off as comical at first and may take years to gain traction, but I suspect you will see a very different GOP in 2020. Hopefully, it will be less about "winning" and more about introducing ideas that can make a meaningful difference for Americans.

The GOP has turned its particular brand of identity-over-facts ideology into a media profit center, so not only do we have to wait until its consumers die off, but we have to somehow make sure another generation is not inculcated with the same propaganda. I'm not optimistic that this can be done without breaking the media behind it.

As long as the message is profitable, it will flourish.

The question is how long can it continue to flourish in the face of near constant defeat? The demographics are very much against them. And it appears that they will continue to move in that direction with a rapidity for which they are unprepared. When Texas goes, they will truly be in the wilderness.

Given that a good part of the media over the last 8 years has been an eternal victimhood, picked up from evangelicals who believe the laws of the land should reflect their faith, exclusively... I suspect they could continue to flourish in political loss for... possibly indefinitely.

Though I don't doubt that there will be a certain percentage of the core constituency that does hang on forever (we still have unapologetic Nazis in Germany after all), a significant enough portion of GOP supporters are likely to get discouraged by the prospect of 16 or 20 years wandering the political wilderness.

It's like being a Cleveland Browns fan. Eventually, you demand an ownership change or just have to find another team.

Tanglebones wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Robear wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I suspect you will see a lot more of the sort of thing you saw with Rick Perry's speech at ALEC last month and folks trying to really make the platform relevant to non whites in sincere ways. It will come off as comical at first and may take years to gain traction, but I suspect you will see a very different GOP in 2020. Hopefully, it will be less about "winning" and more about introducing ideas that can make a meaningful difference for Americans.

The GOP has turned its particular brand of identity-over-facts ideology into a media profit center, so not only do we have to wait until its consumers die off, but we have to somehow make sure another generation is not inculcated with the same propaganda. I'm not optimistic that this can be done without breaking the media behind it.

As long as the message is profitable, it will flourish.

The question is how long can it continue to flourish in the face of near constant defeat? The demographics are very much against them. And it appears that they will continue to move in that direction with a rapidity for which they are unprepared. When Texas goes, they will truly be in the wilderness.

And just like that, PPP has a poll today showing Trump only +6 in TX

Better, let's look at the generational breakdown.
IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cp_fqKEXYAEfww9.jpg:large)

Hear that? That's the sound of the GOP losing a generation.

Sure, they will be in the wilderness, with only a multi-billion dollar propaganda engine between them and the world. Just find some more scared constituents who feel the world is not going their way, and cobble them together into a constituency of fear, rage and hopelessness.

Remember, the Republicans survived decades in the wilderness after Roosevelt. Now they have structural advantages politically and in the media. Plenty of runway to allow the building and takeoff of some horrible new political Cthulhu...

Robear wrote:

Sure, they will be in the wilderness, with only a multi-billion dollar propaganda engine between them and the world. Just find some more scared constituents who feel the world is not going their way, and cobble them together into a constituency of fear, rage and hopelessness.

Remember, the Republicans survived decades in the wilderness after Roosevelt. Now they have structural advantages politically and in the media. Plenty of runway to allow the building and takeoff of some horrible new political Cthulhu...

If they come out of the wilderness having shed the white nationalists, the proto fascists, the racists, and that oh-so-special brand of "Social Conservatism" I'll cheer as they take their place on the national stage once more. As it is their whole propaganda machine is tuned to whites at the absolute expense of minority support. Frankly the simple fact that America has a large non-white population seems to be saving us from driving off the cliff.

Except that those are the seed core of the new Republican generation. Those attitudes are built into the Rush Limbaughs and Alex Jones; the fear of minorities, the mistrust of government, the looking back to a past where they felt like important parts of society and the economy. If they build more towards nationalism and religion, they can segue from their current audience to adding a new set of followers while still trying to activate the Religious Right.

I'm telling you, it scares me. There is *zero* motivation for the GOP to become *more* tolerant, and every evident sign that they will have to double down on intolerance in order to keep going.

Robear wrote:

I'm telling you, it scares me. There is *zero* motivation for the GOP to become *more* tolerant, and every evident sign that they will have to double down on intolerance in order to keep going.

Except for, you know, winning elections.

Which I realize, given the Republican stranglehold on both Congress and the Senate, not to mention gubernatorial mansions, is a position not supported by the facts. But I think we're starting to see the collapse at the top, and it'll take a couple of election cycles to filter down to the state and local level offices.

They are doing quite well at the state and local level with the current agenda...

Robear wrote:

They are doing quite well at the state and local level with the current agenda...

Let's have this conversation in 3 months.

Will that negate the last 35 years? Please tell me it will. Otherwise, we'll continue to have more Republicans than Democratic officials at state and lower levels... And that's the ground in which the Tea Party and Trumpism were planted and flowered.

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)

Robear wrote:

Will that negate the last 35 years? Please tell me it will. Otherwise, we'll continue to have more Republicans than Democratic officials at state and lower levels... And that's the ground in which the Tea Party and Trumpism were planted and flowered.

It'll start to, potentially. Rome wasn't built in a day, though. We didn't get into this mess quickly and we won't get out of it quickly either.

It took the Titanic two hours and forty minutes to sink.

Paleocon wrote:

It took the Titanic two hours and forty minutes to sink.

IMAGE(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/3c/3cb68e606849c196aa7f6f075e9f3beaec51ff2a62eae36677196313e0afe90a.jpg)

I fully expect things to get worse. But I expect things to get worse because their essentially fighting a rearguard action. Yes thanks to gerrymandering and population distribution the Republicans are currently doing well at a state and local level. But that advantage is eroding every year, and will continue to erode. At the same time we have a country that every election is 2% less white and a party that has been doubling down on the white vote. If they don't change their dead, if they do change they go into a electoral coma while the party fights out it's civil war.

Short and mid term? Yeah, it scares me too. As time goes by the Trump supporting core of the right is going to become more and more marginalized politically. I worry what happens when they become convinced that politics is rigged against them. I worry what happens when the bubble and the absolute conviction that not only are they right but that their the majority runs face first into demographic changes. I worry about the normalization and encouragement of violence.

Long term? *Shrug* I'm choosing to be optimistic.

In the meantime if the Democrats manage to regain the House out of this, if only for two years, they can start to clean up the mess the dysfunction has made.

I'd be more optimistic if I saw a movement for *positive* change on the Republican side. Something that offered hope, economic and social, for *everyone*, instead of just ditto rhetoric for people who feel they are in the trenches of an upcoming Apocalypse.

Paleocon wrote:

I suspect you will see a lot more of the sort of thing you saw with Rick Perry's speech at ALEC last month and folks trying to really make the platform relevant to non whites in sincere ways. It will come off as comical at first and may take years to gain traction, but I suspect you will see a very different GOP in 2020. Hopefully, it will be less about "winning" and more about introducing ideas that can make a meaningful difference for Americans.

OG_slinger wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I suspect you will see a lot more of the sort of thing you saw with Rick Perry's speech at ALEC last month and folks trying to really make the platform relevant to non whites in sincere ways. It will come off as comical at first and may take years to gain traction, but I suspect you will see a very different GOP in 2020. Hopefully, it will be less about "winning" and more about introducing ideas that can make a meaningful difference for Americans.

Writing one letter a week is truly the greatest gift one can give.

Could not watch it all... but dude, seriously?

Donald Trump was wrong. Donald Trump resorted to bigotry when responding to a family condemning his bigoted campaign statements. That should not have happened.

That's all you need to say. You don't even have to take back your endorsement of him to say that... I mean, you SHOULD. But ya know... trying to defend Donald Trump's bumbling idiocy that was his response to Khan rather than anything else is just so stupid.

Man, the GOP is truly wrecking its image for its attempts at solidarity. I mean, no big surprise, they've been doing that for 8 years now, I guess. GOP congress members condemning the closing of a public park when they led the shutdown that closed the park. A dude literally reading Green Eggs and Ham, a book literally about "you don't know if you'll like something until you try it", while trying to destroy healthcare legislation that had not even been put into effect yet.

Like... man, this is so depressing. Also hilarious, in a tragic kind of way, I suppose... but mostly still just depressing.

So rumors abound about Trump possibly withdrawing from the election. If that were to actually happen, what then? Does the GOP frantically try to put someone in place as a new candidate? Is that even legally allowed at this point? I know I can look things up and I will. I just decided to start throwing any random questions into this thread that I thought might be relevant to other noobs.

Asterith wrote:

So rumors abound about Trump possibly withdrawing from the election. If that were to actually happen, what then? Does the GOP frantically try to put someone in place as a new candidate? Is that even legally allowed at this point? I know I can look things up and I will. I just decided to start throwing any random questions into this thread that I thought might be relevant to other noobs.

They are legally allowed to run whomever they want, but there are different state deadlines/restrictions on which candidates can appear on the ballot and when. My understanding is that many of those deadlines have already passed and many more are rapidly approaching.

Asterith wrote:

So rumors abound about Trump possibly withdrawing from the election. If that were to actually happen, what then?

Trump's entire image--personal and professional--is built around the idea that he's a winner. He can't withdraw from the election because that would make him look like a weak loser and that's just something his ego won't allow.

He'll stay in the race and spend the next several months talking about how the media, the GOP party elites, the political system, and, well, everything and everyone, is conspiring to defeat him. That way when he does lose he can still claim that he would have won if it hadn't been for those meddling kids. And, most importantly for Trump, this allows for his (oversized and exceptionally fragile) ego to stay intact.

OG_slinger wrote:
Asterith wrote:

So rumors abound about Trump possibly withdrawing from the election. If that were to actually happen, what then?

Trump's entire image--personal and professional--is built around the idea that he's a winner. He can't withdraw from the election because that would make him look like a weak loser and that's just something his ego won't allow.

He'll stay in the race and spend the next several months talking about how the media, the GOP party elites, the political system, and, well, everything and everyone, is conspiring to defeat him. That way when he does lose he can still claim that he would have won if it hadn't been for those meddling kids. And, most importantly for Trump, this allows for his (oversized and exceptionally fragile) ego to stay intact.

Paleocon wrote:

They are legally allowed to run whomever they want, but there are different state deadlines/restrictions on which candidates can appear on the ballot and when. My understanding is that many of those deadlines have already passed and many more are rapidly approaching.

Ballotpedia is the best place I've found that gathers all those dates together in one place:
https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_acces...

The bulk of the dates for certifying the names of major party presidential candidates are in August and September. The Democratic and Republican parties, then, would have until about mid August to find a replacement nominee and still be able to get his or her name on the ballot in enough states to be competitive in November. For example, if a nominee dropped out in late August, his or her name would already be certified to appear as their party's candidate for president in about 20 states. If he or she dropped out in late September, that number rises to almost 40 states.

(Ballotpedia is a professionally edited wiki for American politics. The employee list is here.)

Paleocon wrote:

In one of the Trek books, Trelane is retconned into being a member of the Q Continuum.

I've made this point before, but I think it's worth bringing up in this context: NPR isn't left or right so much as they are pro-government, or perhaps more accurately pro-authoritarian. Sometimes the constraints they work under are really obvious (see their ... tortured rationale for not using the word "torture"), other times not. You can, at least, get a reasonable number of facts from their reporting if you understand the filter you need to apply.

I'd argue most people are pro-government, given the alternative. No?

Aetius wrote:

I've made this point before, but I think it's worth bringing up in this context: NPR isn't left or right so much as they are pro-government, or perhaps more accurately pro-authoritarian. Sometimes the constraints they work under are really obvious (see their ... tortured rationale for not using the word "torture"), other times not. You can, at least, get a reasonable number of facts from their reporting if you understand the filter you need to apply.

those are good links, thanks, though I think NPR is a many headed beast. I feel like I get less authoritarian perspectives from some of their podcasts, for example. I wonder if the authoritarian thing is more evident on foreign affairs.?What are the examples of pro authoritarian bias when reporting on social issues, lgbtq rights, drug legalization, etc.?

Robear wrote:

I'd argue most people are pro-government, given the alternative. No?

As a libertarian, this is indeed one of the most frustrating aspects of modern politics. To paraphrase one of my favorite Jurassic Park quotes, people are so concerned with what they think they can accomplish wielding the power of government that they rarely stop to consider if they should - or what the "other side" will do when they attain control of the same apparatus.