Game Creation/Design Catch All

Skraut wrote:

How are folks dealing with the balance between playing/developing?

I been failing badly at it for years. Besides games I also have novels and regular programs and various projects in various states of not finished. Work tends to leave me drained so in the evenings I often don't have energy for much more than fixing dinner and watching some TV or a movie. I usually only play game one or two evenings a week exception being if I am playing a game that is easy to jump into and just play for a few minutes.

Skraut wrote:

How are folks dealing with the balance between playing/developing? I've been working on several games the past few years, and will get into situations where I make great progress on things, working an hour or two before/after my day job then just reach a "I need a break" point (usually after a stressful week or two at my day job). I'll jump in hard into the latest RPG, and that'll eat up all my development time. I'll play the game for a while, feel guilty about not working on my game, and end up unsatisfied as I never finish either the game I'm playing or the game I'm working on. Rinse/Repeat with new games to make/new games to play, and the cycle goes on.

Sounds very, very familiar.

Throw in restarting my long time game ideas every time I like the sound of a new framework (or something similar) and you have described me perfectly:-)

Skraut wrote:

How are folks dealing with the balance between playing/developing?

I look at it as a necessary part of the process, much like reading and writing go together. But yeah, balance is key.

I've been doing pretty well in the past couple of months with it, but it's super important for me to prioritize development/learning. I've had good luck with setting a daily goal that I must complete before I can play a game.

On a different note, I'm pretty happy with my progress with learning the past month. I'm about 2/3 done with the MIT python course. Just finished Section 9 today, out of 13 sections in the course. Four sections, three problem sets, and a final left to go.

Senkrad wrote:

Throw in restarting my long time game ideas every time I like the sound of a new framework (or something similar) and you have described me perfectly:-)

Oh I know all about that too. Every time I come back to doing development I pick a new engine/framework and start all over. Yeah some is fear of actually completing what I'm working on, some just a natural curiosity to keep learning rather than doing the "hard work" of finishing the game. It also may be a natural reaction to working in the video game industry 15+ years ago and trying to avoid forcing myself to "crunch." But I always find some reason to switch. Wanting to try a new language, getting pissed at Unity for changing their license again, hearing about the hot new framework etc. So I end up starting over with new platforms, new ideas, and never actually finish everything.

Rykin wrote:

Work tends to leave me drained so in the evenings I often don't have energy for much more than fixing dinner and watching some TV or a movie.

When I make great progress, I tend to get up early, and put in an hour or two of work on my own stuff before going into work. It does feel good to put myself first, and gives me a sense of accomplishment that actually helps me at work. The problem is I'll end up with some late nights, either things at work, or other commitments then don't get up early. I end up with my brain being mush after work, find a game to play stay up late playing, and the cycle continues

Skraut wrote:

When I make great progress, I tend to get up early, and put in an hour or two of work on my own stuff before going into work. It does feel good to put myself first, and gives me a sense of accomplishment that actually helps me at work. The problem is I'll end up with some late nights, either things at work, or other commitments then don't get up early. I end up with my brain being mush after work, find a game to play stay up late playing, and the cycle continues

I wish I could do that but I am a night owl and just getting up in the morning early enough to be at work at 7:30am is hard enough when I often can't get to sleep before 1am (I usually try to go lights out by 11pm). I am trying to switch one evening a week away from gaming/tv/whatever to doing a section of the Udemy Unity course. I've actually done two sections this week (one Sunday and one Tuesday).

Right there with you. It's like those people that get up for a run or workout before work. I don't get it. Will never be able to do that. Just not wired that way.

I really need to get back to Udemy course. Steam sale and some pile games distracted me lately.

Stele wrote:

Right there with you. It's like those people that get up for a run or workout before work. I don't get it. Will never be able to do that. Just not wired that way.

I thought so too, but I'm a believer now in the power of an early start. Cheesy title aside, I found this book had a lot of solid advice and was really helpful for me to shift to an earlier start:
The 5 A.M. Miracle: Dominate Your Day Before Breakfast.

It addresses the "not wired that way" argument as well, which I had to get past.

Updates on my personal project.

Language/Framework/Engine/Kit/whatever the hell these are called : I'm going to go with Swift. I'm tired of fighting Unity and C# to get things on the screen (yes, I know how easy it's supposed to be. Apparently I'm not wired that way). I jumped on the link in the latter half of Mixolyde's post (https://www.codingame.com) and tried out a whole bunch of languages (Haskell, Swift, C# without the Unity) and did languages I know (C++, Python 2 and 3). My brain liked using Swift, and it was (relatively) easy to get stuff running so I ran with it.

I'm now pretty deep into Paul Hegarty's Stanford Class and I'm liking it. I know that it limits me to the Apple Ecosystem for the time being (possibly forever), and I'm pretty ok with that.

Game Design stuff: I'm going to be making the transition to a turn based combat style. I'm still mocking it up, but so far it's looking really good to me. I've got the real time combat code saved off, just in case. I'ma lso converting a bunch of stuff from Python 3 to Swift.

Progress!

Swift seems quite nice from what I've seen. The Swift Playgrounds thing they're doing for iOS 10 is pretty rad too, for introducing basics to kids (and probably others who have no experience with programming).

Woot! I just finished the final exam in MIT's Introduction to Computer Science and Programming course. Highly recommended, although it got a bit strong on the "figure it out on your own" stuff toward the end. I get the importance of figuring it out on your own, but some of the problems seemed very difficult if you didn't discover some concepts that weren't even mentioned in the course. The middle also got a bit theoretical. When I was going through that part I felt like I was wasting time, but by the time I got to the end I realized that I was glad that I learned the stuff.

On the whole though I'm happy with the course. It was challenging for me, but I learned a ton. The back end in particular focused on using objects and classes, and there was a lot of practice with them. I feel like I've got a much better understanding of OOP, which is what I was hoping to get from the course.

Next up, I'm going to try Udacity's Intro iOS Developer Program. I hope to start that tomorrow.

Maybe in a few months I'll be ready to start building a real game!

Quick update...

I'm about 15 hours in to Udacity's Beginning iOS Development Nanodegree now. I cranked on things over the weekend, got my first project done, and am currently working on the second one.

It's an interesting program - more text/reading than video, which surprised me at first. Udemy and other MOOCs that I've used take a more video intensive approach, so it's taken me a bit to adjust.

I've been getting things done in about half their time estimates, except for a couple of places where I got stuck. I understand 90% of the programming concepts from having learned the fundamentals of Python, so conceptually it's easy so far. The difference for me is that I'm totally new to Swift, and enough is different from Python that it takes me some time to get the coding exercises done correctly.

Pros
-Dense content (plenty of things to learn)
-High rigor
-Good support
-Good feedback (so far) on projects. The project feedback I got on the first project had some excellent feedback on improving one section of code I wrote. In MOOCs you basically get peer feedback, which usually ranges from "Good job!" to "Good job!", so it was nice to get meaningful and useful suggestions from someone who read your code.

Cons
-Dense content (I think this would be tough for a total beginner.) The first concept they introduce is structs (kind of mini-classes in Swift?) and instances, which is way beyond where any other intro to programming course I've taken has started with. Very quickly they've moved into functions and methods.

-Balance and order of instruction. Some concepts are thoroughly explained. Others not so much. Some are just mentioned offhand with explanations that use terms or concepts not taught yet. Most of the content is adequately explained for me, coming at it with prior knowledge, but there are times where they toss three or four sentences at you that in no way explains a concept well enough. They also have an odd tendency to toss some fairly high level stuff in there that doesn't really apply to what you're doing.

So far I'm happy with it though. There's been enough learning to justify the cost. I'm hoping to finish in a month or less now, which would make total nanodegree cost under $100. I feel like if I could complete this nanodegree and the core one that follows that I'd have the skills to build some fairly complex iOS apps. I feel like I'm on a good path.

I've also got an idea for an educational game that I'd like to build, and have been planning that as I go along.

Godzilla Blitz, good for you, glad to hear it's going pretty well!

That is awesome stuff! Keep it up! No reason you can't download GameMaker and poke around with it, too.

Tagging to mention Handmade Hero, which is more for programmers, as it guides you in building your own game/engine from scratch, without the use of OpenGL/DirectX/etc... It's free, and led by one of the devs on The Witness, Casey Muratori.

I'm also 320 days behind on it, and need to catch up.

So I've been kicking around various game ideas in my head for decades. As an inherently lazy person I've started and stopped development dozens of times in whatever free environment du jeur before anything playable or coherent ever condensed.
But I now own GameMaker.
Part of my decision to purchase the bundle was to hold my own feet to the fire this time. I bought this thing. I have a child that will want something fun at some point in the future. Let's see if I can keep focus long enough to combine my thoughts into something playable.

Consider this my throwing down the gauntlet. Whirling vapors of invention? I'm calling you out! Sure, you might have time and distractions on your side, but I've got... I've got that... I've got those. Things. Thingies. IDEAS! I've got ideas. And I'm relatively certain I can make a few of them into something fun! So come at me, bro. Let's see if you can make me sheepishly pick this gauntlet back up.

I took as many programming electives as I had time for in college. I've scripted and tinkered with various languages over the years, but except for some threading exercises in class, never something that had to maintain an internal tick. I've thought about making my first phase turn-based to limit the new stuff, but after some new story ideas popped into my head I'm considering something with 2D physics to kick my linear-thinking brain in the butt.

Hubris? You betcha! Hell, I get all kinds of intimidated when I consider the decisions I have to make just to lock down a look for the sprites and backgrounds. Haven't checked if the bundles came with any starter tiles I can use for the prototype, so at some point I will need to start planning for tiles/polygons. Yeah! That gauntlet back there might need some shining. Looking a little dusty.

Edit: To keep things manageable for this project I've shelved most of my grand simulation ideas and am embracing abstraction. Abstraction plays a key role in the story I'd like to weave around my creation, which is where my indecision is going to kick my butt. But more on that later... maybe.

So where are a few images of what I am (not) working on (posted in another thread so I might as well post here):

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/2zQQfdg.png)

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/ZfodE3i.jpg)

So vertical scrolling shmup with a hand-drawn art style. The levels look like pieces of paper laid out on a table. Funny thing about the graphics. They look like they were hand-drawn and scanned but we tried that and it didn't work so well. Scanned paper actually has too much texture to it and filtering the texture out left the art kind of gross so we had to develop some brushes for use in Photoshop with a drawing tablet to replicate that hand-drawn pen and pencil look. The graphics guy developed some very good but completely digital sheets of paper for us to work with which actually look more like notebook paper than the scanned notebook paper. We are going to have to redo all of the art now though because everything was designed around 720p resolution back when we started the project (like 2008 or 2009 as an Xbox Live Indie Game in XNA) and we would really like to target a native 1080p now and let the engine/whatever handle down/up-scaling from there. Final art is all my friend Bryan but concept/design was a team effort.

Rykin that looks really cool! It's interesting about how completely digital paper looks more like notebook paper than actual scanned notebook paper. Makes sense but also doesn't at the same time. I'll definitely play it when (if) it's released!

Well, I'm "graduating" from Udacity's Beginner iOS Developer Nanodegree. I just finished the last project last night. It took me a little less than two months chronologically, but I wandered away for a few weeks in the middle.

That's a good thing, but the down side is that I'm not sure I'd recommend the program at this point. I don't feel like it does a great job of things, and as a result I'm not confident that I could actually, well, develop something. I've got many more thoughts about Udacity—both positive and negative—in case anyone is considering it, and would be happy to share them.

I want to forge ahead, but I'm deciding whether to focus on learning more, to focus on actually building something, or to have some blend of the two. I'm leaning toward a blend, but I'm at the point where I think I need to just start making something. I really felt like I was learning stuff in the nanodegree program without a clue as to how I'd use it to actually build a game, for example.

You can always work on something and then go back to learning. I think that typically is the way it goes and one of the things that frustrates me about programming classes. When you build something, you also learn but you may skip some stuff that will be important as your project gets more complex. Likewise, when you learn something, you also build stuff but the stuff you build aren't cohesive so you miss out on things like how to structure a non trivial app.
I'd love to hear more about your experiences GB.

looks rad!

when i went to scan my watercolours it was a disaster. i ended up taking photos of them and cutting them out but it was so much work! i got a table now so i'm gonna see what i can do with that next time i'm jamming!

fangblackbone wrote:

You can always work on something and then go back to learning. I think that typically is the way it goes and one of the things that frustrates me about programming classes. When you build something, you also learn but you may skip some stuff that will be important as your project gets more complex. Likewise, when you learn something, you also build stuff but the stuff you build aren't cohesive so you miss out on things like how to structure a non trivial app.
I'd love to hear more about your experiences GB.

Well said.

I've started working in a Udemy course on Swift 3 that I bought on the cheap a few weeks ago, and have decided to try to build ... something.

I started a project in GameMaker. The programming environment reminds me a little bit of labview, in that it lets you write actual code if you want but it encourages you to use building block functions instead.

Anyone know what language GameMaker uses for raw code? It seems to be a variant of C, but I haven't delved deeply enough to tell yet.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

I started a project in GameMaker. The programming environment reminds me a little bit of labview, in that it lets you write actual code if you want but it encourages you to use building block functions instead.

Anyone know what language GameMaker uses for raw code? It seems to be a variant of C, but I haven't delved deeply enough to tell yet.

GML is GameMakers own language. Looking over the syntax, it looks a lot like JavaScript.

Humble Bundle has a seemingly complete Clickteam Fusion Bundle with games made with it and their source code. I always really liked Fusion with its event based spread sheet "programming".
It includes the developer version for $15 which I know retails for way more than that.
The source code is what I think will really help me here since I never seemed to make more than increasingly sophisticated tests/concepts with it.
There is even the source code for a match three game which I have been wanting to make really bad and I have several concepts for.

fangblackbone wrote:

Humble Bundle has a seemingly complete Clickteam Fusion Bundle with games made with it and their source code. I always really liked Fusion with its event based spread sheet "programming".
It includes the developer version for $15 which I know retails for way more than that.
The source code is what I think will really help me here since I never seemed to make more than increasingly sophisticated tests/concepts with it.
There is even the source code for a match three game which I have been wanting to make really bad and I have several concepts for.

Added to the OP. Thanks!

I recently started a little procedurally generated dungeon crawler thing in Unreal4. Remembering how to C++ again is a bit of an uphill battle, but am getting there.

Nice! Keep it up and let us know when you want to say something or have something you want to show

For note: Game Maker Studio 2 has been announced.

Some of the changes

Wizard Jam 4 on the Idle Thumbs forums is sooon.
Sign up for guarenteed radness! https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/fo...

Everyone is super cool about the jam, so if you are nervous about making a game it is a really excellent starting point! Everything from twine games to things that end up on Steam is accepted!

Bumping for the beginning of wiz jam! Can't recommend it enough!