Israel catch all

A former Israeli ambassador and director of the Foreign Ministry comments on recent settlement activity.

The U.S. State Department’s recent harsh rebuke of unchecked Israeli settlement building and mounting Palestinian house demolitions has set off countervailing criticism from those who question not only its tone and timing but the very definition of illegal settlement building.

The world does not often agree on international issues, but there is an international consensus that the Green Line remains the ad hoc border of Israel and any building over the line constitutes Israel’s creation of new facts on the ground to secure Israeli control of Palestinian territory and reduce the size of a future Palestinian state.

The further absorption of Palestinian land and erosion of contiguity inside and between Palestinian territories leads inevitably to one outcome: the geographic impossibility of a two-state solution and the continued drift into a non-democratic Israeli polity, if not an apartheid state.

Basically, there's a six month window left to avoid the negation of the two-state solution, based on current settlements and newly announced plans and funding.

Edit: This thread is shameful. I forgot why I didn't bother participating.

I'm happy to remove stuff that's ad hom, inaccurate, inappropriate or off-topic...

Edit: This thread is shameful. I forgot why I didn't bother participating.

I don't post things to upset you, Mav. That's not a goal of mine.

Edit: This thread is shameful. I forgot why I didn't bother participating.

Robear wrote:

I don't post things to upset you, Mav. That's not a goal of mine.

While there are a number of posters across various political spectrums whose posts I think are often unconstructive or unduly combative, I've only seen one poster in P&C make posts intended to upset others (and they've since been banned).

Sorry for whatever you're feeling so aggrieved about, mavericks.

[Edit to add: for what t's worth, I'd agree that the lousy sportsmanship from the Egyptian judoka was poor form (I'm less convinced it was particularly germane to this particular thread, but fair enough).]

Maverickz always gets upset when something negative about Israel is posted. He had a perfectly valid article about an Egyptian Olympian who refused to shake hands with the Israeli who beat him in a competition, showing us how horribly Israelis are treated. It's pretty obvious from the linked article (that is no longer linked) that this wasn't just a case of one guy being an asshole, it is part of a larger movement of crappy treatment of the Israeli people.

I am generally unsurprised by Arab anti-Semitism, so I didn't post a reaction to that. I happened to come across an article on a topic the group had discussed before, by a credible and interested source, and posted it. I didn't intend to upset anyone with it. Put another way, you can go back and look and find instances where I crossed verbal swords with many posters here, and this is not one of them.

mav, he was just posting something he found interesting, at about the same time you posted something you found interesting. If he had disagreed with you, he'd have said so directly.

Robear wrote:

I am generally unsurprised by Arab anti-Semitism, so I didn't post a reaction to that.

I think two things this community (and the majority of left leaning communities to which I subscribe) does poorly is acknowledge middle eastern anti semitism and acknowledge non-western anti-feminism / misogyny. The breathtakingly awful treatment of women in regions such as the middle east seems to take a backseat to the resolute defense that #NotAllMuslims treat women like property. At best it seems to addressed with a metaphorical shrug and a "whachagonnado?"

Anti-feminism is a *social* problem, not a geopolitical one. And it's not limited to a particular religion or region. It doesn't change the fate of countries; it's a backdrop to many other components of movements that *do* change geopolitical balances. So it's pervasive, and terrible, but it's also something that is far less likely to change quickly than other factors (like politics, religious diktats, national leaders, military actions, etc.). And there's not a lot of support for anti-feminism here. All of that seems to limit discussion (but I'm betting not awareness.)

Anti-Semitism is a big problem in many countries even today (which is hard for me to believe and understand), and is certainly historically important, but at the same time, participants in extended conflicts are expected to hate each other. It's not surprising. More importantly, while the conflicts exist, it simply will not change on either side (the anti-Islam movement is kind of big right now, I hear). Trust is required, and in this case, neither side trusts the other, and *both* have good reasons for doing so.

I think the more things are likely to change, the more we discuss them. Long-standing grievances expressed in athletics? Yeah, we know about them, but it's not like this problem was created in 1973 in Munich, and it will take a long time to change in many countries even if a miracle solution appears in Israel today.

If you think about it, we didn't really have a thread for Black American social change until Ferguson came up, even though that's something that's been a problem for hundreds of years. Potential change invites discussion.

When it comes to a matter of degree, however, there's a huge regional disparity. We're talking about the difference between who gets credit at the Olympics vs honor killings, FGM, and the right to drive cars; those differences are very much regional. Again, I am not arguing the fallacy of relative privation, I'm just pointing out that it's very difficult to bring these up without heavy caveats of the #NotAllMuslims variety.

This is mostly because these talking points are regularly brought up by anti-Islamists. It's frustrating that these atrocities are made into political shuttlec*cks instead of being dealt with. That is, the discussion very quickly becomes an attack/defense of Islam vs focusing on what should be considered universally terrifying crimes against women and girls.

But I'm in the wrong thread for this.

I agree, but yeah, it's not going to move the topic forward here. Maybe start a thread?

Unfortunately maverickz is no longer participating in this thread, but thought it worth sharing that the Egyptian Judo team sent Islam El Shehaby home for his refusal to shake hands after the match.

Well, that's good news.

Interviewed on Kol Chai radio station in July 28, Dotan said: "I don’t hate Arabs, but I don’t want them at my pools. I don’t go to their pools, either."

He said he was not being being racist but said his views were a result of "cultural differences" taking into account different clothing conventions and "hygiene cultures".

Following the subsequent outcry, the local politician apologised on Facebook saying: "Yesterday during a radio broadcast I was asked about the homogenous population that patronises the pools in the council's towns.

"In my response, I addressed the cultural differences between the populations and their conduct at the pool.

"Unfortunately, it's possible that I was misunderstood, and may have had a slip of the tongue. In any case, I apologise to anyone who felt offended."

Ah the typical "I'm sorry you are offended, not sorry that I'm a bigot."


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