The Big Gun Control Thread

Robear wrote:
OG_Slinger wrote:

And yet the dude in question is what the NRA tells us is the very epitome of a good-guy-with-a-gun: a trained member of the military. And a very senior officer at that.

Well, actually, no. He's a career civilian, a member of the Special Executive Service since 2013. His background is business and engineering. He has no military experience.

So he's just a regular good-guy-with-a-gun who pointed said weapon at someone and threatened them for no real reason?

Sadly, a lot of my patients have told me stories about firearms being brandished and pointed at them during regular, day to day activities like: getting gas, hanging out in their backyard and checking out at Walmart. Not good for someone's mental health. Especially if you have PTSD or some other type of anxiety. No doubt a lot of them have been on the giving end of this behavior as well.

I'm not talking about robbery attempts either; just angry and/or intoxicated people who think threatening with a gun is a perfectly valid response to any slight. Someone cuts in line- pull a gun. Teenagers too loud- pull a gun. Neighbor won't let you hunt deer on their property- pull a gun.

The amount of times I've heard similar stories, in person, and on the news, makes me think this is pretty pervasive. And I get the sense that unless someone is actually killed, law enforcement usually does little. So most people don't even bother reporting it. And as hard as it is to get good statistics on things like actual firearm deaths, I imagine this is currently impossible to track. And incidentally, since law enforcement doesn't or can't stop it, might as well arm yourself in response. What else can you do?

This isn't a polite society we're living in as near as I can see. It's an angry, scared society. The negative effects go beyond just the number of people dead.

But I thought an armed society was a polite society.

Of course. You get to call the people who gun down your partner 'sir'. That's polite, right?

So f*cking sickened right now.

Jayhawker wrote:

But I thought an armed society was a polite society.

Yeah, that only works if everyone, or at least all firearm owners, are guaranteed to act rationally at all times. Never make dumb decisions. Never get drunk or high. Never lose their temper. Always put self-preservation over emotions like anger and pride. Basically we'd need to be logical robots, or Vulcans or something.

And I know I'm covering well trodden ground here, but when the potential for deadly consequences is introduced, it kicks in the primitive fight or flight response and people are even less likely to make calm, rational choices.

As an example of the snowball effect this might have on society, I think the whole widespread possession of firearms is a major factor in why cops here are so likely to shoot people, especially people they're already prejudiced against (minorities). Which also has negative effects beyond just the number of people killed.

OG_Slinger wrote:

So he's just a regular good-guy-with-a-gun who pointed said weapon at someone and threatened them for no real reason?

I don't know who he is, except that he's not a highly trained military dude. My take on this is White privilege, wealth privilege and narcissism.

gewy wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

But I thought an armed society was a polite society.

Yeah, that only works if everyone, or at least all firearm owners, are guaranteed to act rationally at all times. Never make dumb decisions. Never get drunk or high. Never lose their temper. Always put self-preservation over emotions like anger and pride. Basically we'd need to be logical robots, or Vulcans or something.

And I know I'm covering well trodden ground here, but when the potential for deadly consequences is introduced, it kicks in the primitive fight or flight response and people are even less likely to make calm, rational choices.

As an example of the snowball effect this might have on society, I think the whole widespread possession of firearms is a major factor in why cops here are so likely to shoot people, especially people they're already prejudiced against (minorities). Which also has negative effects beyond just the number of people killed.

I mention folks like Crissy and Bradley Turner and Michael Dunn all the time whenever someone tells me that an armed society is a polite society.

All arming a society does is give appalling behavior deadly consequences. It makes bullies bigger bullies and scared, worthless holster sniffers into murderous asshats.

Possibly the most disturbing observation I have made from my facebook discussions over the last few days has been how many otherwise reasonable people to which I am acquainted actually believe that acts of political violence are protected by the Constitution of the United States of American and that, particularly, the 2nd Amendment gives citizens a tacit right to overthrow or otherwise oppose their government with deadly force when they aren't getting their way.

Aside from the numerous obvious historical and legal fallacies in that line of thinking, the general idea that our civil system of governance exists only as a convenience and that terrorism and assassination is somehow sanctioned by the laws of our country is horrifying as much as it is asinine.

No wonder we are so fcuked up. We, literally, think that burning this sh1t down is a protected right.

Thomas Jefferson did have a few quotes about revolution and tyranny.

Latest disturbing thing that my wife shared with me as I have deactivated my facebook account is talks of an fbi warning about a cop purge starting tonight. I've googled it but nothing links back to fbi.gov so I assume it is fabricated. Which isn't any less scary.

Stay safe everyone. I feel like we only hear about the extremes and not about all of us normal in the middle people.

Turns out it looks like a coordinated plan of attack by several police departments on BLM protests across the country instead.

Brizahd wrote:

Thomas Jefferson did have a few quotes about revolution and tyranny.

Latest disturbing thing that my wife shared with me as I have deactivated my facebook account is talks of an fbi warning about a cop purge starting tonight. I've googled it but nothing links back to fbi.gov so I assume it is fabricated. Which isn't any less scary.

Stay safe everyone. I feel like we only hear about the extremes and not about all of us normal in the middle people.

Jefferson made those statements in reference to European monarchy, but his ratification of the Constitution put him on board with a governing document that stated in pretty certain terms that taking up arms against the government of the United States of America made you an enemy of the state. And though he may have personally felt that the overthrow of tyranny was a good thing, the Constitution makes it pretty freaking clear that political violence is in no way a protected right.

In short, take up arms against your country, reap the drone strike.

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politic...

There was also the challenge of sorting out witnesses from potential suspects. Texas is an open carry state, and there were a number of armed demonstrators taking part. There was confusion on the radio about the description of the suspects and whether or not one or more was in custody.

Cops killed someone pretty much right in front of my apartment this morning. The gunshots woke me up. Apparently the person was waving a gun around and firing randomly. Still trying to get info. Confusingly, someone else got shot on a street that has a similar name to mine.

Well that sounds terrible. At least stray bullets didn't go through your home. Hopefully it was a rare isolated instance.

The NRA believes the 2nd Amendment only really applies to White people.. silence around the Minn. shooting of a legally CC black man.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the...

I saw the NRA's statement that they don't comment about ongoing investigations.

Once again, kinda floored by how lazy and obvious of a lie it is.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

Cops killed someone pretty much right in front of my apartment this morning. The gunshots woke me up. Apparently the person was waving a gun around and firing randomly. Still trying to get info. Confusingly, someone else got shot on a street that has a similar name to mine.

I was going to post this in response to some of the "it's frustrating to see people posting frivolous things" feelings, but it's just as important for your case: http://www.npr.org/2016/07/08/485281...

I know that stuff can really mess with you, emotionally. Internet hugs your way.

This is the least sensationalized article I could quickly find on Dallas mayor Mike Rawlings comments on the Texas open carry movement, and its effect during the shooting there. The response to his comments was what struck me:

But C.J. Grisham, president of Open Carry Texas, said police should be able to separate the good guys from the bad guys in such a scenario because "the bad guys are the ones shooting."

"If you can't identify a threat, you shouldn't be wearing a uniform," he said.

Grisham said some in law enforcement look at law-abiding gun owners as a threat.

"It's not that difficult to tell the difference between a bad actor and a good actor," he said. "The good guys are going to obey commands, the bad guys are not."

If the good guys aren't going to be shooting, why do they need to openly carry their gun? If they're the ones that will be obeying police commands - and I would fully expect those commands to be "drop the gun", not "hey come help us" - why do they need to openly carry their gun?

"If you can't identify a threat, you shouldn't be wearing a uniform," he said.

Ironically, this is pretty much the crux of the problem.

Bloo Driver wrote:
"If you can't identify a threat, you shouldn't be wearing a uniform," he said.

Ironically, this is pretty much the crux of the problem.

It's so easy!

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/cxOFyVdl.png)

OG_slinger wrote:
Bloo Driver wrote:
"If you can't identify a threat, you shouldn't be wearing a uniform," he said.

Ironically, this is pretty much the crux of the problem.

It's so easy!

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/cxOFyVdl.png)

I dunno the middle 'ok' is looking kind iffy.

On that color chart, Peter looks like he'd likely fall on or just below the "Not Okay" line.

The AK-74 Micah Johnson used was sold over Facebook with the gun being exchanged for cash in a Target outlet parking lot.

The previous owner, Colton Crews, needed money for plane tickets to a wedding so he decided to "[downsize] my collection" and sell the weapon to Johnson. Crews didn't conduct a background check on Johnson because none was required by Texas law.

But don't worry, Crews has seen the light about buying and selling firearms from complete strangers...

Once the story came together, Crews found himself badly shaken. He says his interest in guns is now gone, and he opted out of a weekend deal to buy a shotgun.

“It’s the fact that I feel partially responsible for all this s--- that’s happened,” he said. “That’s it. That’s what it is. ... He’s just one guy who bought a gun from me, and he decided to do something completely awful.”

That, and he's got to be thinking "Wonder why the dude paid me instead of leaving me dead in a dumpster?".

Guess it was only a matter of time...

Two teens looking for Pokemon were mistaken as thieves looking for a house to rob and ended up getting shot at on Saturday.

A man was sleeping in his Palm Coast area home about 1:30 a.m. when a loud noise woke him up. The 37-year-old looked outside and spotted a white car parked in the road outside his Primrose Lane house, said Flagler County Sheriff's Office Jim Troiano.

He grabbed his handgun and went outside to investigate. As he came up to the car, he overheard one of the two teens say "did you get anything?" Troiano said.

That's when the man stepped in front of the vehicle, thinking they had possibly broken into his home, raised his gun and ordered them not to move, officials said.

The vehicle sped towards him and he moved out of its path. He then fired rounds at the vehicle because he said it "was attempting to strike him," Troiano said.

The teens paint a different version of the incident claiming they were sitting in the their car hunting two Pokemon--a Marowak and Tauros. One said "Did you catch him?" and the other responded "Yeah, did you?" That's when the teens said they hear gunfire, thought someone was trying to scare them, and quickly fled the scene. Their car had bullet holes in the rear tires, hubcap, and fender.

The teens paint a different version of the incident claiming they were sitting in the their car hunting two Pokemon--a Marowak and Tauros. One said "Did you catch him?" and the other responded "Yeah, did you?" That's when the teens said they hear gunfire, thought someone was trying to scare them, and quickly fled the scene. Their car had bullet holes in the rear tires, hubcap, and fender.

Sorry but humor's the way my brain copes sometimes. I immediately thought "I said ACROSS THE NOSE not UP IT!"
IMAGE(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MhLqPfAylF4/hqdefault.jpg)

Boy, it seems like we've had mass shootings in America forever. It's easy to overlook how the modern era of just shootin' random folks started just 50 short years ago, when a plucky young fella named Charles Whitman climbed into the clock tower of the University of Texas.

It's 50 years later that UT, and all other public universities in Texas, have to comply with new open carry laws in the Lone Star State.

In unrelated news, UT's Irony Studies 101 class has been cancelled due to lack of interest.

PSA: Whitman had a brain tumor, specifically

Post-mortem autopsy of his brain revealed a glioblastoma multiforme tumor the size of a walnut, erupting from beneath the thalamus, impacting the hypothalamus, extending into the temporal lobe and compressing the amygdaloid nucleus

He seemed aware that he was not himself, that he was becoming aggressive. He actively sought help and to a professional he

made vivid reference to thinking about going up on the tower with a deer rifle and start shooting people. ....He was told to make an appointment for the same day next week."

This is not appropriate action for a therapist by modern standards, and perhaps not even for the standards of the time. More limited access to guns certainly would have impaired this ill man's ability to carry out the actions described but taking actually listening to him and taking appropriate action in response to his statements and concerns would have been even more effective in preventing harm.

Oh, that poor bastard.