Guns, Cows, and the BLM

OregonLive/The Oregonian came up with a rough estimate of how much the occupation of Malheur Wildlife Refuge is going to cost Oregon (and federal) taxpayers: $3.3 million and counting.

That includes:
-- $1.2 million in wages, overtime, lodging, and fuel for the Oregon State Police
-- $521,800 in costs to Harney County and the cities of Burns and Hines. This includes paying wages to school personnel when the schools were shut down over security concerns as well as shelling out about $100,000 to create, staff, and operate the joint command center.
-- $788,500 in costs to local agencies throughout Oregon who helped out Harney County.
-- $611,000 in wages and benefits paid to BLM and US Forest Service personnel who could not work because of the occupation.
-- $150,000 in costs and added security paid by the Burns Paiute Tribe.

The cost estimates doesn't include the cost of the FBI investigation, prosecution, and subsequent incarceration of these idiots. Nor does it cover any damages and repairs to the refuge (the FBI just cleared it and BLM and US Forest Service personnel are just starting to see how badly the militia members trashed the place).

Also not factored in were the added costs of meals and services that the Harney County Senior Center, a nonprofit, provided to people who were out-of-towners.

No worries, I hear the Corporation of America is flush with money.

Yes but it was incorporated in France so that's all useless Euros.

Demosthenes wrote:

"Where's my presumption of innocence?"

"On YouTube with all the videos directly showing you committing crimes?"

"Sir, you are dripping your privilege."

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Yes but it was incorporated in France so that's all useless Euros.

It will be payed in Ameros.

#keeptheconspiracytrainrolling

Fourteen new indictments; twelve arrests, two already in federal custody. This new list includes Eric Parker, the guy in all the photos aiming his rifle at the feds from an overpass.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-nv/pr/f...

qaraq wrote:

Fourteen new indictments; twelve arrests, two already in federal custody. This new list includes Eric Parker, the guy in all the photos aiming his rifle at the feds from an overpass.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-nv/pr/f...

THANK THE MAKER

qaraq wrote:

Fourteen new indictments; twelve arrests, two already in federal custody. This new list includes Eric Parker, the guy in all the photos aiming his rifle at the feds from an overpass.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-nv/pr/f...

One of the new indictments is for Gerald DeLemus of New Hampshire. DeLemus is the co-chair for "Veterans for Trump" in New Hampshire and a Tea Party activist.

His wife is a state representative who got some media attention recently when, after the Pope criticized Trump, she said that "The Pope is the Anti-Christ. Do your research."

Awesome! Time to water the tree, boys.

There was a press conference today covering the death of Finicum. The Deschutes County Sheriff's Office synced video taken by Shawna Cox inside the SUV with the FBI aerial video.

The synced video clearly shows Finicum egging the State Police and FBI to shoot him multiple times, shows that he decided to flee from law enforcement (after checking to make sure firearms were at the ready), and that the initial eyewitness accounts of the shooting from the SUV occupants--that Finicum and the SUV were riddled with hundreds bullets--were untrue. A grand total of eight shots were fired.

If you have 45 minutes, you can watch most of the press conference, complete with detailed commentary by the Sheriff's Office.

Federal prosecutors filed an updated indictment today that added a host of new charges and one unnamed defendant.

Twenty of the defendants are now charged with possessing firearms and dangerous weapons on federal property; nine with use and carry of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence; three with theft of government property (the idiot that took a Fish and Wildlife vehicle to the grocery store and the two idiots that took down the cameras around the refuge); and, two with depredation of government property for using heavy equipment to create new roads in the refuge.

Ryan Bundy has declared himself an “idiot of the ‘Legal Society’” and therefore not subject to any federal law.

He's also declared that any documents that have his signature on it are retroactively invalid and, because of that, he's being illegally detained.

But, being a reasonable fellow, Bundy has agreed to play the role of "defendant" if he's paid $1 million in advance (but then he also wants $100 million if he's ever brought before the court again regarding his takeover of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge).

Still looking for those magic words.

Demosthenes wrote:

Still looking for those magic words.

Seriously. Reading that legal brief is like an exercise in deciphering the caffeine addled musings of a pimply faced youth "bargaining" with his dungeon master.

Hard to argue with the 'idiot' part...

Still looking for those magic words.

You're fired?

Pretty sure there's one magic word, and it's "guilty".

Paleocon wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

Still looking for those magic words.

Seriously. Reading that legal brief is like an exercise in deciphering the caffeine addled musings of a pimply faced youth "bargaining" with his dungeon master.

Hey now, I never wrote anything nearly that stupid when I was trying to figure out how to survive the Tomb of Horrors.

The Judge warned Bundy not to assert that the Court had no jurisdiction and he will forfeit rights of self representation if he does it again.

Let's say he ignores the warning; does that mean he has no representation? As in nobody can make any arguments on his behalf? Not entirely sure what that would mean from a procedural fairness perspective. In any event he has no compelling argument so maybe there is no mischief caused.

Demosthenes wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

Still looking for those magic words.

Seriously. Reading that legal brief is like an exercise in deciphering the caffeine addled musings of a pimply faced youth "bargaining" with his dungeon master.

Hey now, I never wrote anything nearly that stupid when I was trying to figure out how to survive the Tomb of Horrors. :(

[Insert Stranger Things fireball reference]

OG_slinger wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

Still looking for those magic words.

Seriously. Reading that legal brief is like an exercise in deciphering the caffeine addled musings of a pimply faced youth "bargaining" with his dungeon master.

Hey now, I never wrote anything nearly that stupid when I was trying to figure out how to survive the Tomb of Horrors. :(

[Insert Stranger Things fireball reference]

IMAGE(https://media.giphy.com/media/mwErnt1MeDBcs/giphy.gif)

Bfgp wrote:

The Judge warned Bundy not to assert that the Court had no jurisdiction and he will forfeit rights of self representation if he does it again.

Let's say he ignores the warning; does that mean he has no representation? As in nobody can make any arguments on his behalf? Not entirely sure what that would mean from a procedural fairness perspective. In any event he has no compelling argument so maybe there is no mischief caused.

Pretty sure that would mean he would have to let a court appointed attorney plead his case for him if he won't/can't hire his own. It just means he can't represent himself without a qualified attorney.

Hmm at least locally there is a rule that lawyers cannot raise arguments which have no reasonable prospect of success. If there's something similar his advocate couldn't advance a positive case and would seemingly be limited to discrediting the Government's case(s) against him.

But does that mean everyone in the US gets publicly funded representation?

In the US, a public defender is a lawyer appointed to represent people who cannot afford to hire an attorney. If you can afford one you generally are better off hiring one because public defenders tend to be less experienced and more overworked (of course my knowledge of that is mostly from tv shows...).

What's with spelling his name in all lowercase?

I vaguely remember capital letters as being somehow important in the Sovereign Citizen community. It's related to some inane argument about uppercase Citizens being one thing, and lowercase citizens being something else. The uppercase kind are subject to the United States, they claim, but lowercase citizens are sovereign.

I think that's it, anyway. It was a really weird idea, and I last heard it probably twenty years ago.

I only sign legal documents in hieroglyphics. That technically makes me an Egyptian god. The Constitution says that there has to be a separation of church and state, therefore no government institution or employee is allowed to be in the same room as me.

It's got something to do with the difference between the person and the corporation created in that name which belongs to the Treasury or the French crown or the Illuminati or some such, and is subject to laws while the person is not. SPLC has some good definitions of sovereign-citizen-speak: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...

TheGameguru wrote:

What's with spelling his name in all lowercase?

Short answer: Sovereign citizen bullsh*t.

Long answer: People who believe the sovereign citizen bullsh*t noted that a lot of government documents put people's names in all caps. This is because of mail merging.

But to sovereign citizens this represented proof of their idea only American born before the 14th Amendment were actually free individuals but once the 14th Amendment was passed, people became federal citizen. According to them, federal citizens don't have any real rights.

Instead, when people are born the government set up a fictitious corporation in their name (using all caps) and then used that fake corporation to secure more government debt.

By using all lowercase, sovereign citizens reassert their claim to natural citizenship which supposedly carries with it rights that supercede any state or federal laws.