You Need A Budget Catch-all

I've been a devoted user of YNAB for several years now and am willing to support the move to a subscription model. Some of the features like having goals for categories sound really cool and it's something I've actually wished they would add

At the moment though, there is no way I'd be willing to switch. They have completely turned off the ability to import YNAB4 budgets which given how much historical data I have, is simply not going to work. Then there's the inability to roll-over negative category balances (or "red arrow to the right"). I have a buffer (Rule 4) so I can roll with the punches (Rule 3) and am disciplined enough not to spend more on a category when it's negative. So this change is immensely frustrating.

The whole automatic import is fairly useless outside the US (and I've written to more than one bank actually requesting for ODT support!). I'm just waiting to see how they evolve the site but am really hoping some of this stuff makes it way back in before the end of this year.

I really have enjoyed the use of YNAB. Transitioning from the desktop app was a pain at first, but I find myself keeping more up to date with it using the online version. It has just slipped into my morning routine. Check email -> check ynab -> check other things. I also find myself not falling behind with putting in transactions, simply because i just run everything through a credit card and just pay the balance at the end of the month. The import feature has worked pretty great so far. I think for my specific use case, its a significant improvement. For those with troubles hooking up their bank account, I certainly see no point in moving to the web based model.

As a software developer, I'm also quite excited about the move to a web application. This means they'll be able to release updates/fixes and new versions quite easily, and will hopefully translate into a modest release structure, where some of the complaints listed here can be addressed quickly.

idiotman wrote:

As a software developer, I'm also quite excited about the move to a web application. This means they'll be able to release updates/fixes and new versions quite easily, and will hopefully translate into a modest release structure, where some of the complaints listed here can be addressed quickly.

It's not a move to a web application. There still will be a desktop app, only it's not ready yet. So they will have to support multiple versions, it's actually +1 now since web app is new.

Hedinn wrote:
idiotman wrote:

As a software developer, I'm also quite excited about the move to a web application. This means they'll be able to release updates/fixes and new versions quite easily, and will hopefully translate into a modest release structure, where some of the complaints listed here can be addressed quickly.

It's not a move to a web application. There still will be a desktop app, only it's not ready yet. So they will have to support multiple versions, it's actually +1 now since web app is new.

I highly doubt they'll be making the desktop app with some entirely different code library, so it won't be like porting Arkham Knight to PC when it was initially coded for PS4 architecture. Think more like deploying the same game for multiple platforms from Unity. This is all to say that with the right tools and a plan, it's FAR easier to deploy an app to multiple platforms than it used to be-- so supporting multiple apps shouldn't be as much a concern as it might have been 5-10 years ago.

ETA: I decided to give the new web app another go now that I can better plan out our budget with the new month. It's a little easier now to grasp the different approach to credit cards, and with a bit of napkin math I figured out why the web app's available budget differed from Classic's, but I still plan on keeping both up to date, just in case I screw something up royally.

Wife and I are also going to meet with a financial advisor, so I'm hoping between her and YNAB I'll be able to better plan for killing my massive student loan debts.

I definitely dig the Goals option per category, though I do wish it was a little more like Mint's, where you can adjust a slider and have the software calculate the differences in rate of pay vs goal dates.

So I'm still making it hard for myself by entering everything in manually, failing to actually do that as I go, and ending up with a slightly patchy pile of receipts to clear at the end of the month. Which means I'm still not forcibly reminded how much I've spent so far per category or how little is left in the account, leading to spending way, way too much money on food. Have to bring everything from home now.

Still feeling there's no way I'd spring for a subscription of $60 a year. I'll be using the existing version for the foreseeable future. They've said that it will be supported for a year after the announcement, and after that I'm not sure about using software with a whole lot of my financial information in it that isn't getting security updates. At least it's not literally tied to my bank account at all, but I still worry. I think maybe the worst part though is the orange 'classic' banner detracting from the formerly nice mobile app icon XD I guess using YNAB for this long has taught me enough to go back to something free like GNUcash or MoneyManagerEx, but I'm not sure I want to. Feh.

I noticed something interesting when I was looking up the transactions on one of my accounts, it now does a roughly similar thing by putting your transactions into categories and giving an attractive summary. It auto-categorises transactions and I was surprised at the breadth of recognition the system had. It identified the local public transport card payment correctly, along with rent, and some utility bills. It lumped supermarket purchases all under 'groceries' where I separate them out into food and other things, but there's also the option to manually categorise each transaction, including a split transaction feature.
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/T2jlomp.png)

Do any of your banks also do this? If YNAB doesn't offer significant value for the subscription, the banks will eat their lunch by offering the basics that satisfy most moderately interested people for free.

Mermaidpirate wrote:

Do any of your banks also do this?

Chase has been doing that for my credit card accounts. Blueprint.
Categorizes and lets you set budgets to track spending.

Not paying a subscription for YNAB anytime soon. I was not impressed with what I saw in the web version.

My bank definitely does that and many other European banks do this as well. "Spending Report" is apparently a thing this and past year.

My bank even allows you to set budgets for each category and notifies you when you are close to being over budget. I'm not using it too much (YNAB4 is my workhorse, especially its mobile app), but it's pretty nifty and has good category recognition. It's directly in the mobile banking app, which I'm using several times a week, so I can immediately see the income/expense balance and split in basic categories. Also, free is always a good price for a great product.

Can you use the Classic YNAB if you are coming to the software fresh, or are you stuck with the web-based version? I just did their free 34-day trial, and I like it, but... I don't want to spend $4/month for it. I know, I know, I'm cheap... that's why I want good software

It's still listed on the Steam store. Possibly yes?

Vrikk wrote:

Can you use the Classic YNAB if you are coming to the software fresh, or are you stuck with the web-based version? I just did their free 34-day trial, and I like it, but... I don't want to spend $4/month for it. I know, I know, I'm cheap... that's why I want good software :)

You can totally buy Classic YNAB and never have to pay a monthly fee, it still works fabulously. I'd give you a referral code to save 5 bucks but they retired the referral program at the end of 2015 Still, Classic YNAB works, it is supported at least until the end of this year and the mobile app has been recently upgraded (it's free) and works perfectly.

Still going along by catching up in monthly chunks. Always have about $100 - $180 cash unaccounted for, that I stack on food and dining, because 95% of the time I bet that's it. I way overspent on dining out again this month. So hard.

One thing I recently noticed, that probably the initial tutorial tells you about but I had forgotten, is that you can click on the red overspent part of a balance, and choose whether you want to subtract it from next month's budget, or from next month's category balance. I'm going to try and use this more. By default, it already takes it out of next month's budget as a whole, it seems.

Also, I've been practising blind typing on the number pad, and this has helped me enter transactions and update the budget column a lot. I still make a lot of errors in the test window, but hopefully I'll keep at it and improve.

I think you need to enter the transactions as you make them, or at the end of the day, to have the budgeting method have success. That you know how much you have left for dining out or whatever and know you are getting close to your max and need to cut back or swap money from somewhere else. The YNAB system doesn't work as well to actually influence your spending I think if you just approach it like a transaction register that you balance at the end of each month.

I enter most of my transactions via my phone, it is pretty easy like when I am at a restaurant and I pay the check I just pull out my phone while I am still sitting there and punch it in, takes less than 15 seconds. I am still on the desktop version and the mobile app is fast for this.

You're right, it just seems to be a hard habit to maintain. I'm still getting a benefit from seeng the totals of each category for the month, and realising I have to cut down on public transport because I was spending $70/month when I'd prefer it to be more like $50.

Mermaidpirate wrote:

One thing I recently noticed, that probably the initial tutorial tells you about but I had forgotten, is that you can click on the red overspent part of a balance, and choose whether you want to subtract it from next month's budget, or from next month's category balance. I'm going to try and use this more. By default, it already takes it out of next month's budget as a whole, it seems.

I love this feature - especially for those categories where we occasionally have overspending due to work related expenses that get reimbursed a month or so later. The fact that this feature hasn't made it to new YNAB is the biggest reason I won't switch just yet. That and the lack of reports.

I try to enter transactions as I make them, but between the wife and I, it only happens in spurts. So I've settled on a weekly manual sync with my bank to keep the budget values mostly up to date. I agree, the best way to use it is to enter as you purchase, then check balances before you buy. It's not a habit we'be been able to do, but updating weekly seems a decent compromise for us.

Also, cash is our bane as well since there's no bank record to sync back to later.

PS, and I love the subtract from category option. I use it all the time for things like my personal allowance spending that is based on a variable alternate income rather than household primary income.

I've been using YNAB4 for a few months now and it is kinda amazing how much better i am with my money now! I used to be very much a just pay as it comes in now, but since i started YNAB i've been earmarking money for upcoming really well.

It has also curbed almost entirely my frivolous spending (maybe still a little wild which the steam sale incoming). I don't in the least miss buying just on a whim, all i needed it seems was that little nudge not to do it. Really nice seeing my bank account growing, and knowing that my New 3DS XL is already in the bank for when Monster Hunter hits!

I mostly use my CC for purchases to avoid bank fees, so it is easy to keep track of. I update every 2-3 days. I use very little cash, so any withdraws i push into my cash account on YNAB. Most of it gets written off to a small Spending Money pot usually, but it i buy anything like Groceries i'll mark the receipt to make sure to enter it properly.

Entering as you go really does reward you. If you and your wife both have the mobile app that can help a lot for the quick entries.

dibs, that is great that you are seeing results so quickly!

You might be interested to know that New YNAB is now able to import YNAB4 budgets with complete history.

Antichulius wrote:

Also, cash is our bane as well since there's no bank record to sync back to later.

If you get into habit of writing down spending as it happens, it stops to be such a bane. The habit takes a while (a month for me), but it's hugely satisfying. I do a quick reconcile at the beginning of each week (basically, I check all the "Checked" boxes in the budget after cross-referencing with my banking app) and I'm done.
RescueTime also tells me I spend about 20 minutes in YNAB app (and I use it a lot). Once it learns your main places of purchase (grocery store, restaurant where you go for lunch), you really need like 5 seconds to enter a new transaction, as it fills out the location/payee, category and account used for you automatically.

dibs wrote:

I've been using YNAB4 for a few months now and it is kinda amazing how much better i am with my money now! I used to be very much a just pay as it comes in now, but since i started YNAB i've been earmarking money for upcoming really well.

It has also curbed almost entirely my frivolous spending (maybe still a little wild which the steam sale incoming). I don't in the least miss buying just on a whim, all i needed it seems was that little nudge not to do it.

Interestingly, better budgeting has made me more comfortable with frivolous spending because I have things appropriately managed.

muraii wrote:
dibs wrote:

I've been using YNAB4 for a few months now and it is kinda amazing how much better i am with my money now! I used to be very much a just pay as it comes in now, but since i started YNAB i've been earmarking money for upcoming really well.

It has also curbed almost entirely my frivolous spending (maybe still a little wild which the steam sale incoming). I don't in the least miss buying just on a whim, all i needed it seems was that little nudge not to do it.

Interestingly, better budgeting has made me more comfortable with frivolous spending because I have things appropriately managed.

Absolutely this. Knowing everything critical, important, and required is covered makes the just-for-fun purchases so much better.

wanderingtaoist wrote:

You might be interested to know that New YNAB is now able to import YNAB4 budgets with complete history.

Awesome, this was one of the must-have features for me before upgrading, and part of what made me hold off on the new ynab. I'm fine with starting over, but the historical spending analysis is vital for me.

One thing I started doing (and my wife to a point) was transfering money to a second account for all the money we didn't spend.

I used to smoke. Alot.
I kept transfering the weekly cigarrette budget to a second account I didn't touch. Ever.
With YNAB, I'm sending money weekly or monthly. It's easy to become OC with it; 15% discount for gum? cha-ching! $0.45 off to the bank account.

I wish I could do it at a moment's notice, but bank transactions would bite an important piece of the savings.

Hobbes2099 wrote:

One thing I started doing (and my wife to a point) was transfering money to a second account for all the money we didn't spend.

I used to smoke. Alot.
I kept transfering the weekly cigarrette budget to a second account I didn't touch. Ever.
With YNAB, I'm sending money weekly or monthly. It's easy to become OC with it; 15% discount for gum? cha-ching! $0.45 off to the bank account.

I wish I could do it at a moment's notice, but bank transactions would bite an important piece of the savings.

Hobbes - my wife and I pretty much stumbled into the opposite approach. Every month, I transfer a fixed amount into a joint bank account that we use for grocery, utilities and the like. I pay the mortgage and other big ticket items from a sole account where I get my salary month and my wife does the same thing with her salary. I won't say it's easier to manage as I'm updating multiple Excel files and YNAB every week, but it does help with impulse purchases.

As long as you have one account which is isolated from impulsive wonts and cravings, you're on your way to saving dollars which quickly add up.

I actually had to close my account because my bank (boutique as they call them now) was bought by a national monstrosity. Service quickly degraded and I came to hate by bank. I closed the account and deposited everything into my regular checking account. now all my money is on a single account.

The effects were almost instantaneous. =(

I noticed there's a YNAB podcast now, it started not that long ago and already has a squillion episodes, because they're all short. I might try and give it a go.

Also, when I logged in today I saw that even my dinky little bank now has category/budget tracking.

How do you handle delayed payments? For example say you buy something on Amazon for estimated $200. Amazon doesn't charge your CC until the items ship. Amazon then ships the order in two shipments for $100 and $80 a few days apart. So there is $20 difference. Also there are two transactions instead of one.

Do you wait until you are officially charged or do you put down a $200 placeholder.

Enter it on the day you purchased - err on the side of caution (Enter 200 instead of 180 here for instance). Clear it when it leaves your account, adjusting to the actual price. That is money you have already spent, it just hasn't left your account yet.

If it is split into 2, then adjust and clear the first 100, and add a new uncleared transaction for the 2nd part.

Yeah those are annoying and Amazon is bad about splitting orders. Like dibs, I put in the total order amount when I order, and then adjust later on if I see on my card transactions Amazon split it into multiple amounts, really just so that my YNAB transactions match 1:1 with my card transactions.

I don't worry about adjusting the date, I just leave it as the date that I paid.

same here.
worst case scenario, you have --in reality-- more money in your account.
I register CC purchases on the day I spent and clear on the day I pay my CC.
when the establishment actually charges my CC should be of no consequence (unless I'm missing something).