NFL 2016: Offseason: Pre-Draft / St. Louis Trolling

TheGameguru wrote:

I wouldnt be shocked if once 2020 rolls around some of the "new" stadiums built in the late 90's early 2000's are now suddenly portrayed by ownership as "old" and "unworkable" to jockey cities into trying to build bigger complexes that owners can jam all sorts of addons into to make more money.

It's already happened in Atlanta with the Braves.

TheGameguru wrote:

I wouldnt be shocked if once 2020 rolls around some of the "new" stadiums built in the late 90's early 2000's are now suddenly portrayed by ownership as "old" and "unworkable" to jockey cities into trying to build bigger complexes that owners can jam all sorts of addons into to make more money.

IMAGE(http://www.lasisblog.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/2011/02/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-300x225.jpg)

Enix wrote:

Happened in Charlotte already.

Same ol' grift.

Maybe the same ol' grift, but at least they are renovating that which they already have, rather than holding the city hostage with threats of leaving if they don't get a new stadium.

A day after the team said they're keeping him, we get a report that Kaepernick's agent has requested permission to explore trade options.

Who would be possible destinations?

Cleveland would be interesting with Hue Jackson there, as he apparently likes Kap a lot. That would serve the double purpose of keeping Cleveland from drafting a QB at #2 (and perhaps a swap of the #2 and #7 picks would be part of the deal, giving SF their choice of draft QBs).

Houston wants to do something at QB and they're not in a great position to get one at #22. (Though it would be poetic for Cleveland to trade for yet another #22 overall pick and draft a QB with it).

The Jets seem like they're done with Geno, and while they'll probably bring back FitzMagic if they don't do anything else, they could opt in to acquiring Kaepernick instead. They've been the strongest rumored destination to date.

The Los Angeles Rams still have $8 mil in guaranteed money tied up in Foles, but they have more than enough cap space to take on Kaepernick's contract.

Kansas City has to be mentioned, no matter how unlikely they are to move on from Alex Smith, simply because KC has right of first refusal on all outbound SF QBs.

Dallas wants to start grooming a QB to take over for Romo, and Jerry like sizzle. Kaepernick would at least be a better idea than Manziel. A 1st round pick swap could move San Francisco up to #4, which doesn't get them ahead of Cleveland, but at least cuts of some other potential trade-up teams by moving closer to the top of the board.

I'm all for downtown sports, but I do think football is an exception. I think suburban stadiums with plenty of land for its own parking makes the most sense. It's what has helped keep Arrowhead alive.

I dunno, I think Baltimore and Seattlemake a case for downtown football. Both have easy access from public transit and are in fairly accessible portions of the city.

The Post-dispatch had a fun article about St. Louis' real lost football team, the Cardinals today. But this bit made me chuckle:

Big Red left an everlasting impression on St. Louis

The Cardinals never won a championship and never hosted a playoff game. But they put 46 players in Pro Bowls and left an everlasting impression. In the end, for what it’s worth, the Big Red (187-202-13) had a better winning percentage (.481) in St. Louis than the Rams (.422), and the highest winning percentage for the Cardinals franchise in any of its three locations — Chicago, St. Louis and Arizona.
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And they did so despite sometimes trying circumstances. For instance, during their early years, the football team shared Busch Stadium on Grand Ave. (aka Sportsman’s Park) with the baseball Cardinals. Until the baseball season ended, the team couldn’t get on the natural grass field to practice at the stadium. It had to scramble for alternatives.
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“I remember one time we bused over to practice at Forest Park, we’re out there and a little league team showed up,” said former Big Red center Bob DeMarco, who played in St. Louis from 1961-69. “We didn’t even have permission to be there, the little league team was supposed to have the field. So they kicked us off.”
*Legion* wrote:

A day after the team said they're keeping him, we get a report that Kaepernick's agent has requested permission to explore trade options.

Who would be possible destinations?

Cleveland would be interesting with Hue Jackson there, as he apparently likes Kap a lot. That would serve the double purpose of keeping Cleveland from drafting a QB at #2 (and perhaps a swap of the #2 and #7 picks would be part of the deal, giving SF their choice of draft QBs).

Houston wants to do something at QB and they're not in a great position to get one at #22. (Though it would be poetic for Cleveland to trade for yet another #22 overall pick and draft a QB with it).

The Jets seem like they're done with Geno, and while they'll probably bring back FitzMagic if they don't do anything else, they could opt in to acquiring Kaepernick instead. They've been the strongest rumored destination to date.

The Los Angeles Rams still have $8 mil in guaranteed money tied up in Foles, but they have more than enough cap space to take on Kaepernick's contract.

Kansas City has to be mentioned, no matter how unlikely they are to move on from Alex Smith, simply because KC has right of first refusal on all outbound SF QBs.

Dallas wants to start grooming a QB to take over for Romo, and Jerry like sizzle. Kaepernick would at least be a better idea than Manziel. A 1st round pick swap could move San Francisco up to #4, which doesn't get them ahead of Cleveland, but at least cuts of some other potential trade-up teams by moving closer to the top of the board.

So you think a Kap trade is worth a 1st round pick? Probably more realistic to say a 3rd.

Legion wouldn't give me a 1st in the Dynasty draft for him, so no, he's not worth a 1st.

Abu5217 wrote:
Enix wrote:

Happened in Charlotte already.

Same ol' grift.

Maybe the same ol' grift, but at least they are renovating that which they already have, rather than holding the city hostage with threats of leaving if they don't get a new stadium.

Read through to the tethering clause. Eventually that'll expire, and we'll go through the same exercise all over again.

Charlotte's being quote-unquote smart about things. The city is keeping up with repairs. St. Louis didn't. And when the bill got too big and the city and the team refused to pay, the team walked.

Cities always end up as losers in stadium deals. Always.

Ah, that's what I get from not reading all of the article. Yeah, stadium deals do suck.

"karmajay wrote:

So you think a Kap trade is worth a 1st round pick?

No. Not anything close to it. I'm talking about swapping 1st round picks, not getting one outright for Kap. San Francisco has pick #7, that would be part of a trade to move up to pick #2 or #4.

Trades with teams below SF in round 1 wouldn't be for 1sts, just whatever they can get.

This is a terrible idea; teams at the top of the draft need to go for QBs, WRs, and OTs so all the DEs and CBs drop to Tampa.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

This is a terrible idea; teams at the top of the draft need to go for QBs, WRs, and OTs so all the DEs and CBs drop to Tampa.

Is finding a diamond in the rough CB the new finding a pass rusher?

Seems like if you can get a B+ cover man on the cheap the rest of your defense starts falling into place.

As for Kap I think SF is best off keeping him but if he wants out hard to keep people against their will. I still consider drafting a QB russian roulette unless your willing to be patient with them whereas Kap has already shown flashes of very good stuff.

jowner wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

This is a terrible idea; teams at the top of the draft need to go for QBs, WRs, and OTs so all the DEs and CBs drop to Tampa.

Is finding a diamond in the rough CB the new finding a pass rusher?

Seems like if you can get a B+ cover man on the cheap the rest of your defense starts falling into place.

As for Kap I think SF is best off keeping him but if he wants out hard to keep people against their will. I still consider drafting a QB russian roulette unless your willing to be patient with them whereas Kap has already shown flashes of very good stuff.

I would take a B+ pass rush over a B+ corner any day. I would even take C+ pass rusher at this point.

Kaepernick had one good year. Teams are scarred enough by the fresh memories of Josh "insert troll picture here" Freeman and RG3 to where teams aren't going to offer much in trade.

He got benched for Blaine Gabbert, he's on a team where the new coach is already known to be a "I want my guys" kind of coach, and he's clearly disgruntled enough already to publicly demand a trade. SF should consider themselves lucky to get a fifth for him at this point, let alone think he's worth enough to be a major trade chip in jumping up to #2.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

SF should consider themselves lucky to get a fifth for him at this point, let alone think he's worth enough to be a major trade chip in jumping up to #2.

The 49ers have a million draft picks to trade to get to #2 or #4 (if they so wanted). Kap's main contribution would be to fill that team's need at QB, making them willing to trade away from QB drafting territory in the first place.

That said, I think the most likely scenario is the 49ers staying pat at #7 and selecting a QB at that slot, possibly trading Kaepernick for draft day up/down moving (or future pick collecting, as is their MO) later in the draft.

Ravens franchise Tucker. I'd have preferred them to have hammered out a deal, because he's worth way more than he'll get this way. But that said, I'm glad he'll be kicking for us another year.

*Legion* wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

SF should consider themselves lucky to get a fifth for him at this point, let alone think he's worth enough to be a major trade chip in jumping up to #2.

The 49ers have a million draft picks to trade to get to #2 or #4 (if they so wanted). Kap's main contribution would be to fill that team's need at QB, making them willing to trade away from QB drafting territory in the first place.

That said, I think the most likely scenario is the 49ers staying pat at #7 and selecting a QB at that slot, possibly trading Kaepernick for draft day up/down moving (or future pick collecting, as is their MO) later in the draft.

Oh, sure, I just don't think his value is likely high enough to entice Cleveland to jump out of Offical QB Picking Spot #1 at the #2 slot. He's not the kind of guy Hue Jackson is going to stake his entire future on. I could see him going to a team with an older QB who's going to be gone in a couple years, and they want to give him time to re-acclimate, but it does seem like the kind of guy who's really going to be prioritized for certain QB systems. Like, you know, the one Chip Kelly runs.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Oh, sure, I just don't think his value is likely high enough to entice Cleveland to jump out of Offical QB Picking Spot #1 at the #2 slot. He's not the kind of guy Hue Jackson is going to stake his entire future on. I could see him going to a team with an older QB who's going to be gone in a couple years, and they want to give him time to re-acclimate, but it does seem like the kind of guy who's really going to be prioritized for certain QB systems. Like, you know, the one Chip Kelly runs.

Bear in mind that Hue Jackson wanted Kaepernick in Oakland, very badly.

"I think about it all the time, believe me," Jackson said "No question in my mind we wanted it to happen, and no question I thought it could happen. We wanted the kid in the worst way."

Obviously, Jackson's opinion could have changed since then, but he very well may also think he's the guy to turn Kaepernick into the QB he ought to be. If he's not in love with any of the draft QBs, and recognizes that Cleveland needs way more than just a QB, Kap + pick #7 + additional lower picks might look a lot more attractive than just taking a rookie QB at pick #2.

*Legion* wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Oh, sure, I just don't think his value is likely high enough to entice Cleveland to jump out of Offical QB Picking Spot #1 at the #2 slot. He's not the kind of guy Hue Jackson is going to stake his entire future on. I could see him going to a team with an older QB who's going to be gone in a couple years, and they want to give him time to re-acclimate, but it does seem like the kind of guy who's really going to be prioritized for certain QB systems. Like, you know, the one Chip Kelly runs.

Bear in mind that Hue Jackson wanted Kaepernick in Oakland, very badly.

"I think about it all the time, believe me," Jackson said "No question in my mind we wanted it to happen, and no question I thought it could happen. We wanted the kid in the worst way."

Obviously, Jackson's opinion could have changed since then, but he very well may also think he's the guy to turn Kaepernick into the QB he ought to be. If he's not in love with any of the draft QBs, and recognizes that Cleveland needs way more than just a QB, Kap + pick #7 + additional lower picks might look a lot more attractive than just taking a rookie QB at pick #2.

Don't make me post my "benched for Blaine Gabbert" pictures again, Legion.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Don't make me post my "benched for Blaine Gabbert" pictures again, Legion.

You keep trying to use that as an insult. I'm sorry you're mad that my eternal castoff QB posted a better passer rating than your #1 overall pick.

The Saints are reportedly expecting to be forced to appear on Hard Knocks.

According to Woody Paige of The Denver Post, Peyton Manning is doing exactly what everyone on planet Earth and planet Vulcan thought he was going to do.

Rat Boy wrote:

The Saints are reportedly expecting to be forced to appear on Hard Knocks.

How dull...the obvious choice is the Bills with the Ryan brothers and Shady "I didn't realize we were beating up cops" McCoy.

TheGameguru wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

The Saints are reportedly expecting to be forced to appear on Hard Knocks.

How dull...the obvious choice is the Bills with the Ryan brothers and Shady "I didn't realize we were beating up cops" McCoy.

Yeah, but I will totally hate-watch the Saints on "Hard Knocks."

Enix wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

The Saints are reportedly expecting to be forced to appear on Hard Knocks.

How dull...the obvious choice is the Bills with the Ryan brothers and Shady "I didn't realize we were beating up cops" McCoy.

Yeah, but I will totally hate-watch the Saints on "Hard Knocks."

I would prefer the Los Angeles Rams.

Rat Boy wrote:

49ers not saying if they're going to trade him or not.

Here's hoping the Texans get him.

Other reports say neither the Texans nor the Browns are actually interested.