DSGamer Down Under (Australia) and back

DSGamer wrote:
Maq wrote:

Wait how did I miss this? You work with Unix and you're moving to Sydney? Let me hook you up.

I don't know. This thread doesn't get as much traffic as I expected given how big of a change it is, but I'm also not trying to draw all the attention to myself. Mostly asking advice and talking about the process.

I'm reading it but I've visited Australia all of twice for three weeks total, so I don't have a whole lot to add.

DSGamer wrote:
m0nk3yboy wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
m0nk3yboy wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

root

Te he he he he...

Another thing you'll get used to. ;)

I had to google that. Fair enough. That works as well.

Nothing funnier than being in a fairly "high level" IT meeting, and everyone giggling like little kids as we make reference to the "root" folders, and "root" structures. :lol:

Wait. Good point. Root is a keyword in Unix. How am I going to avoid using it?

On another note I'm waking up after my first day of sleep after surgery. I did okay anxiety wise. I'mean still in a fair amount of pain. I'm hoping this gets better in a couple of days or else that flight is going to be terrible.

Yeah, funny how in Australia the American pronunciation of 'route' got adopted for the word 'router' XD

DSGamer wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

So presumably the surgery went okay?

So far. It's really painful. Oxycodone barely touches it. But I'm being reassured that it's nothing abnormal.

Maq wrote:

Wait how did I miss this? You work with Unix and you're moving to Sydney? Let me hook you up.

I don't know. This thread doesn't get as much traffic as I expected given how big of a change it is, but I'm also not trying to draw all the attention to myself. Mostly asking advice and talking about the process.

So yeah, moving to Sydney on Monday assuming I feel well enough to fly by then. All our stuff is either in storage or bags. I'm supposed to start my job (software engineer) on the 18th, but I'm skeptical about whether I'll be up for sitting that long at a desk by then.

I've PMed you my Facebook details (if you don't use it I'm telling you now that as an intercontinental migrant you may suddenly discover what it's for.) I can make some introductions and give your social and professional circles a bump start.

Some quick tips off the top of my head.

If you've not flown that distance before, well, it's a bastard. Keep spare undies, tshirt, and deodorant in your carry-on and have a quick change at the refuelling stop. If you've got lounge access, have a shower. If you've not got lounge access, a quick freshener will have to do.

When you get to Sydney airport you'll see a lot of signs about carrying food or plant material into Australia. A LOT of signs. Pay attention. If you have any food at all left in your carry-on now's the time to throw it in the bin. Any food at all, even candy. Australian quarantine controls are extremely strict and you will get his with a $220 fine if you have food with you when you reach immigration.

Everyone at immigration has heard the "any criminal record? I didn't know you still needed on" joke. Try it and you'll spend the next 7 hours in a side room.

Didn't check where you live now but the temperature could be pushing 110F when you land. Take it slow in the heat. That's 43C. Get used to Celsius now.

Suncream. Factor 50. All the time. It's always on your exposed skin before you go outside and it's always in your bag/pocket/car for re-application throughout the day. The Australian sun does not mess about.

Sunglasses. If you don't have good ones they'll be an early purchase.

I'm around for any specific questions whenever you need to ask.

Oh man I really should read the thread properly. You've been there already. Half of that advice is pretty moot.

One thing I can recommend as a two-time immigrant is: make time to work on your social circle. Don't just hang out with ex-pats, find your tribe. Make time to do this as it's hard work.

Maq wrote:

Oh man I really should read the thread properly. You've been there already. Half of that advice is pretty moot.

It's still helpful to have it reinforced. Especially the stuff about the sun. I've gotten soft here in Oregon where it's basically between 40 - 70 degrees most of the year. Save a month or two of heat, it's basically temperate constantly. So I need to keep reminding myself to take the sun seriously, including wearing hats and stuff like that.

I think the most challenging thing in this respect is going to be the fact that I'll need to wear a button-down shirt and slacks for work. Portland is notoriously casual. As in I've barely worn anything outside of shorts and a short sleeve shirt for the better part of the last 15 years. So going back to dressing business smart is going to be pretty tough. Both finding clothes I like and not sweating them out daily. I'm definitely going to take it easy in the heat.

Maq wrote:

One thing I can recommend as a two-time immigrant is: make time to work on your social circle. Don't just hang out with ex-pats, find your tribe. Make time to do this as it's hard work.

This is really good advice, I imagine. Since I'll be working I hope this isn't too hard. By nature I'm an introvert, though, so this is easier said than done. I'm going to struggle with this. I'm certain of it.

Is having a social circle extra-important in Australia? I don't have much of one off the internet and find it onerous.

I recently moved to a job that's more business-business-casual than casual-business-casual, and had a little fun picking up some new clothes. I hate tucking my shirt in, though, so that's an ongoing annoyance. Overall, though, it's fine. Definitely an investment though.

Here's an Australia Day ad to give you an insight into our culture:

Lamb Australia ad at the top of the article

Here's an Australia Day ad to give you an insight into our culture:

Lamb Australia ad at the top of the article

So good I double posted.

Nvm triple posted for value!

Bfgp wrote:

Here's an Australia Day ad to give you an insight into our culture:

Lamb Australia ad at the top of the article

I laughed out loud. Not that I know why lamb on Australian Day is a thing.

I don't know about "social circles" being more or less important, but having friends is nice. You can try http://www.meetup.com/cities/au/sydney/ and join a few different groups, they will be full of people in the same boat who have just moved interstate. You might not make capital-F Friends there, but it's nice to be able to hang out with people and ask them questions and whatnot.

The drinking thing might be more of a problem. Having a beer is sometimes expected of people, which can be tough if you can't or prefer not to for whatever reason. Especially if it's your work colleagues asking. Also AFAIK the beer here is stronger than in the US.

Glad the surgery went well DS, do you know what caused the hernia?

As far as adjusting to the heat, try to spend a lot of time in it. It will be a miserable first week but if you spend a decent amount of time hot your body will adjust quickly. If you avoid it and try to stay in air conditioning as much as possible and avoid the outdoors, you'll always be hot when you go outside.

Mermaidpirate wrote:

I don't know about "social circles" being more or less important, but having friends is nice. You can try http://www.meetup.com/cities/au/sydney/ and join a few different groups, they will be full of people in the same boat who have just moved interstate. You might not make capital-F Friends there, but it's nice to be able to hang out with people and ask them questions and whatnot.

The drinking thing might be more of a problem. Having a beer is sometimes expected of people, which can be tough if you can't or prefer not to for whatever reason. Especially if it's your work colleagues asking. Also AFAIK the beer here is stronger than in the US.

Don't know about the US but, compared to Europe, Australians do more social drinking and less binge drinking. FWIW I was tee-total for years and it wasn't a massive problem socially.

You're going to love the experience of living abroad. I've heard it said that someone who only knows one culture actually knows no cultures. You're blind to the culture you're born into and there was so much I didn't realize about Australia until I emigrated because I had no basis for comparison. It was just "normal".

A little tip for when the inevitable comparisons between Australia and the US come up - Australian culture carries a massive inferiority complex deep in its DNA. They call it the "cultural cringe". Comparing Australia unfavourably to either the US or UK will often result in strangely defensive and occasionally aggressive responses. Not always, but it's there.

The tech crowd that I know aren't that big into drinking so I'm sure you will find colleagues that drink in moderation or not at all.

Probably one of the best things about Australia is that there's a great diversity of food from multiculturalism - it's hard to find "Aussie" food if that makes sense as the food scene borrows from all over the world. It's no surprise given the federation was only formed in 1901.

As for attitudes, you'll find Australians probably have very little knowledge of the big social issues you face in the US and abroad generally.

One other thing, there are some parts of Sydney you're better of enjoying during broad daylight or not all. Give me a PM if you need more advice and don't want to share your intended address/suburb.

Bfgp wrote:

Probably one of the best things about Australia is that there's a great diversity of food from multiculturalism - it's hard to find "Aussie" food if that makes sense as the food scene borrows from all over the world. It's no surprise given the federation was only formed in 1901.

Honestly that's the case for American food as well. Sure, some of it exists but I've rarely gone to an "American" restaurant. Closest I've seen are diner-like establishments (pancakes, burgers, fries, etc.), but I've been to the same kinds of places in in other countries and I don't recall them being called American.

Ironically the most "American" place I've been to outside of America was an Outback Steakhouse in Tokyo. They even imported their catsup because the Japanese formulation was different than the American one.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Glad the surgery went well DS, do you know what caused the hernia?

For starters I'm overweight, something I need to work on. Secondly, I think I lifted a really heavy bag as part of our prep to leave the country, ironically. Finally, my mom told me my doctor mentioned something about this when I was a child, that I might be prone to hernia injuries later in life.

LeapingGnome wrote:

As far as adjusting to the heat, try to spend a lot of time in it. It will be a miserable first week but if you spend a decent amount of time hot your body will adjust quickly. If you avoid it and try to stay in air conditioning as much as possible and avoid the outdoors, you'll always be hot when you go outside.

I think you mean the "air con". But yeah, that's the plan. We're going to try to adjust to it as best we can without dying of heat stroke.

Maq wrote:

You're going to love the experience of living abroad. I've heard it said that someone who only knows one culture actually knows no cultures. You're blind to the culture you're born into and there was so much I didn't realize about Australia until I emigrated because I had no basis for comparison. It was just "normal".

Right. This is part of what I'm looking forward to. I'm looking forward to being challenged and seeing what I truly miss and what I appreciate about a new culture, especially one more wife has so much affection for. I have to admit that I'm coming in somewhat blind. Even though my wife has worked in Australia for years and loves Australia, I've only spent two weeks there. I don't know if I'll love it or how I'll feel about it. I just know I'm open to trying.

Maq wrote:

A little tip for when the inevitable comparisons between Australia and the US come up - Australian culture carries a massive inferiority complex deep in its DNA. They call it the "cultural cringe". Comparing Australia unfavourably to either the US or UK will often result in strangely defensive and occasionally aggressive responses. Not always, but it's there.

I wondered about that, actually. When I was looking for work people kept saying things like, "we're way behind the US in X". Or, "our technology is 5 years behind the US". I didn't know what to say when I heard that. I have no clue if that's true or why people said that. Usually my response (because these were in tech interviews and I knew specifically what tech they were talking about), was that their stack looked really up to date compared to companies I had recently worked with. That I imagined there were challenges due to Australia being somewhat more distant and having a smaller user base for Australia-based web services in terms of how quickly companies were forced to scale, but that was it. This was honest. I wasn't buttering anyone up.

Either way I'll try to keep that in mind. It sounds like I may have inadvertently passed a test by being respectful of the people and the country.

Bfgp wrote:

One other thing, there are some parts of Sydney you're better of enjoying during broad daylight or not all. Give me a PM if you need more advice and don't want to share your intended address/suburb.

We're going to be in North Sydney. I'll take generic advice, but I'm happy to PM as well, obviously.

Hmm North Sydney is an affluent suburb so no concern there. Chances are you'd have to wander pretty far afield to find yourself in an unsecure situation.

The main CBD is generally okay at late night except for Redfern, Oxford Street and Kings Cross (former have some good eats, latter has lots of bars and pubs and people are known to get drunk and rowdy).

Places out of the city I'd avoid late at night are Blacktown and Parramatta (each is a boiling cauldron of young people who have too much time and energy on their hands); there's a mini Chinatown out at Cabramatta/Fairfield/Canley Vale which are really chock full of great Asian restaurants but I would recommend you travel with locals at first as some parts might be rough at night.

There's roughly 7 distinct Sydneys. They're all different.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...

Something you are going to find annoying that you don't even know is A Thing until you emigrate: Relearning the names of all the primal cuts of meat and all the completely different seafood. All the fish are different and most of the meat will have a different name and possibly a slightly different cut.

On the seafood front you're spoilt though. Sydney seafood is second to none. Get to know and love the Fish Markets. Every time I'm back home I gorge myself on oysters and balmain bugs.

Yes. Fillet mignon is a method not a cut here. You are probably thinking of eye fillet.

Good butchers put a picture of the animal with names of cuts on the wall so you'll be okay. Another example is New Yorker = Porterhouse.

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX6e1FiUwAAAqgl.jpg:large)

Half of Australia's population lives in the area shaded red.

Australia only has ~25 million people? Wow I thought it was a lot more for some reason.

Also of note:
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/th...

You are about to move into a place where they think Potato Scallop is a thing when they are actually referring to a Potato CAKE. Just smile and nod and go along with them. They are wrong, but you can live with it.

Ordering beer can be tricky between states with many different words for different sizes. Pots and schooners and middies and pints are all options and not all of them are the same size even if they have the same label.

Hey, I'm a Sydneysider and we call them potato scallop and as far as I'm concerned it's everywhere else that has funny lingo (Western Australians have an incredibly nasal tone).

DS just study the Sydney versions - you'll notice in most cases the Melbourne equivalent is different and you won't be understood if you use their turns of phrase.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, you pick that stuff up over time. People will find any mistakes endearing I'm sure.

There is one size of beer. Schooner. Everything else is an affectation.

Mind you most commercial draft beer in Australia is bloody awful.

Bfgp wrote:

(Western Australians have an incredibly nasal tone).

Bloody Sydney people with their posh accents looking down their noses at us.

EvilDolphin wrote:
Bfgp wrote:

(Western Australians have an incredibly nasal tone).

Bloody Sydney people with their posh accents looking down their noses at us.

Now we're getting into "Australian Beef" territory here for anyone that remembers when that happened on the Giant Bombcast.

Bruce wrote:

Also of note:
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/th...

You are about to move into a place where they think Potato Scallop is a thing when they are actually referring to a Potato CAKE. Just smile and nod and go along with them. They are wrong, but you can live with it.

Ordering beer can be tricky between states with many different words for different sizes. Pots and schooners and middies and pints are all options and not all of them are the same size even if they have the same label.

That's a great link. The thing that hoses me the most is that I use the word "sweet" to refer to something good. There was absolutely no consensus on that one.

An update on my status.

I was originally set to land around the first week of January. My soon-to-be employer wanted me to take a week to get settled and get adjusted to the timezone, etc. Coming from America where companies want you to work as soon and as much as possible I found this kind of common sense and humanity encouraging and a good sign of my employer. Unfortunately, though, we flew by that estimate when we actually had to book tickets based on when the visa was going to arrive, which was a week late due to problems on our end. No problem, they said I should start the second week of January.

Finally yesterday I had to let them know that I won't be landing until 17/1 due to my wife being asked to stay in the US an extra week for a global executive meeting. I emailed them expecting to hear at least a note of frustration or to have that week cut down. Instead they told me they thought I should still wait the week and then to wait an additional couple of days due to Australia Day. So my job will start over a week after landing. I get some extra time to recuperate and get my bearings. I'm hoping the actual day-to-day of working for them is as good as my interactions so far.