Is Gentrification a Bad Thing?

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Tyops wrote:

This article was an interesting read.

The Grim, Racist (and Likely Illegal) Methods of One Brooklyn Landlord

Huh, sounds like a landlord I had a while back.

Not sure if this is the right spot for this, but rising rent is closing the iconic FAO Schwarz flagship store in NYC

They don't own? I'm kinda shocked...

Robear wrote:

They don't own? I'm kinda shocked...

They went from family ownership, to investment bank ownership, to bankruptcy, to bankruptcy again, to being bought by Toys R Us back in the early/mid-2000s.

Once the money guys got a hold of them any real estate holdings would have been liquidated for cash.

Yeah, that would explain it...

These numbers are insane:

http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/20...

NathanialG wrote:

These numbers are insane:

http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/20...

There's also a correction on one of them. 1994 to now? Yeah, I can see an increase from 600k to 1.7 million if the HOA kept everything maintained. Hell, 600k to 1 million isn't unheard of over five to six years, if they get in when the building is first coming up.

The fixer uppers are a bit much, but eh. Fool and their money, right?

The Four Horsemen of Gentrification.

As the Harbinger of Brunch, I was tickled at the implication that locals don't like mimosas.

Brunch is just a fancy way of saying "leftovers".

Paleocon wrote:

Brunch is just a fancy way of saying "leftovers".

If that's true, You're Doing It Wrong.

Brunch is a fancy way of saying "Let's have breakfast on steroids, throw booze into the mix, but let's also have a nice long lie-in first."

It's the hedonist's breakfast.

Brunch truly is the most bourgeoisie of meals.

Jonman wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Brunch is just a fancy way of saying "leftovers".

If that's true, You're Doing It Wrong.

Brunch is a fancy way of saying "Let's have breakfast on steroids, throw booze into the mix, but let's also have a nice long lie-in first."

It's the hedonist's breakfast.

You and I have the same understanding of brunch.

I live for a good brunch. Only possibly high tea with unlimited champagne and scones being better

I think the last time I enjoyed brunch was 25 cent martinis at the Commander's Palace in the Garden District.

Brunch was great until I had a kid. Then it's super annoying cause my normally well behaved 6-year-old starts whining about how there is nothing for him to eat. And I feel super judged as a parent if I start hitting the booze at 11 am. Anyhow, sorry for derail.

Ehhhh, I've seen my fair share of picky kids. It's honestly easier to let them order off menu. The slightly slower ticket times are well worth making kids and families happy.

Edit - don't you live in Seattle? What crazy fundamentalist judges a parent for hitting the booze at 10 am on a Sunday with their kids?

Seth wrote:

Edit - don't you live in Seattle? What crazy fundamentalist judges a parent for hitting the booze at 10 am on a Sunday with their kids?

There's got to be a brunch with an ironic kids' menu in Seattle.

How is this any different than the normal evolution cities go through? 50 years ago there were middle class neighborhoods that are now poor and vice versa, plus every other spectrum of change (hip places no longer hip, boring places that are now hip etc etc). Is this a different issue than that? I'm not being a smartass, I really don't know

RooksGambit wrote:

How is this any different than the normal evolution cities go through? 50 years ago there were middle class neighborhoods that are now poor and vice versa, plus every other spectrum of change (hip places no longer hip, boring places that are now hip etc etc). Is this a different issue than that? I'm not being a smartass, I really don't know

tl;dr

Because it's the difference between it happening over a 50 year period vs. a 5-10 year period
Because historically 'gentrifying' means 'white people moving back into a neighborhood they left because blacks started moving in'
Because those same neighborhoods get neglected by basic municipal services until said white folks move in
Because now even middle class folks are struggling to afford to live in 'decent' neighborhoods in favor of folks who pay 30% over asking price in cash
Because not everyone enjoys the homogenous monoculture of corporate chain stores or artisanal craft shops that cater to the uber rich
Because it's less about the organic evolution of neighborhoods over time and more about the wealthy throwing their money around and getting their way; aka "I got mine, f*ck all yall"

It's also very contextual to areas with low supply and high demand (peninsulas, islands, sounds), but is starting to seep into many other areas that historically didn't see this type of hyper-gentrification.

There are 10 other pages with extensive personal experiences, links to articles and studies as well.

Seth wrote:

Ehhhh, I've seen my fair share of picky kids. It's honestly easier to let them order off menu. The slightly slower ticket times are well worth making kids and families happy.

Edit - don't you live in Seattle? What crazy fundamentalist judges a parent for hitting the booze at 10 am on a Sunday with their kids?

Upstate NY it's illegal for both parents to be served alcohol if their kids are with them. My bro & sis in law got denied at an Applebees/TGIFridays.

Some sort of designated driver law.

nel e nel wrote:
Seth wrote:

Ehhhh, I've seen my fair share of picky kids. It's honestly easier to let them order off menu. The slightly slower ticket times are well worth making kids and families happy.

Edit - don't you live in Seattle? What crazy fundamentalist judges a parent for hitting the booze at 10 am on a Sunday with their kids?

Upstate NY it's illegal for both parents to be served alcohol if their kids are with them. My bro & sis in law got denied at an Applebees/TGIFridays.

Some sort of designated driver law.

That is either something the restaurant staff made up or a very local law. That isn't a true legal thing in most of New York as far as I can tell (and not something I ever heard of while living in various bits of upstate new york)

absurddoctor wrote:
nel e nel wrote:
Seth wrote:

Ehhhh, I've seen my fair share of picky kids. It's honestly easier to let them order off menu. The slightly slower ticket times are well worth making kids and families happy.

Edit - don't you live in Seattle? What crazy fundamentalist judges a parent for hitting the booze at 10 am on a Sunday with their kids?

Upstate NY it's illegal for both parents to be served alcohol if their kids are with them. My bro & sis in law got denied at an Applebees/TGIFridays.

Some sort of designated driver law.

That is either something the restaurant staff made up or a very local law. That isn't a true legal thing in most of New York as far as I can tell (and not something I ever heard of while living in various bits of upstate new york)

Yep that sounds like corporate bullsh*t. I have family in upstate New York (Bath, specifically), and that has never been the case at local places.

RooksGambit wrote:

How is this any different than the normal evolution cities go through? 50 years ago there were middle class neighborhoods that are now poor and vice versa, plus every other spectrum of change (hip places no longer hip, boring places that are now hip etc etc). Is this a different issue than that? I'm not being a smartass, I really don't know

I'm pretty much in your boat, but it's worth noting that "gentrification" is a particular subset of what you're describing, and there are particular problems associated with it. Of course, the counter to that is that there's particular problems associated with every kind of neighborhood change.

But I agree that expecting neighborhoods *not* to change over time is assanine, and complaints of gentrification can be seen that way when viewed from a distance.

Jonman wrote:
RooksGambit wrote:

How is this any different than the normal evolution cities go through? 50 years ago there were middle class neighborhoods that are now poor and vice versa, plus every other spectrum of change (hip places no longer hip, boring places that are now hip etc etc). Is this a different issue than that? I'm not being a smartass, I really don't know

I'm pretty much in your boat, but it's worth noting that "gentrification" is a particular subset of what you're describing, and there are particular problems associated with it. Of course, the counter to that is that there's particular problems associated with every kind of neighborhood change.

But I agree that expecting neighborhoods *not* to change over time is assanine, and complaints of gentrification can be seen that way when viewed from a distance.

It's actually kind of the opposite. When viewed from a distance you start to see the patterns of race and wealth that are intricately tied to gentrification that you don't see when all you're focused on is "the neighborhood getting 'safer'".

Generally speaking, a lot of what is being discussed here and in the privilege and passive racism thread (and the various other social activism threads) are about looking at things from a systemic and institutional level, and not a micro level. The problems arise when folks muck up the conversations with personal anecdotes that more often than not are exceptions to the rule, or are white folks* whose only experience is the status quo.

*cis, het, male, able bodied, neurotypical, insert whatever you want here

I know we have discussed how infrastructure in cities can be racist, now in Chicago we have these TOD (Transit Oriented Developments) going in and pricing the middle class out of renting near public transit:

http://chicagoist.com/2016/05/17/ren...

NathanialG wrote:

I know we have discussed how infrastructure in cities can be racist, now in Chicago we have these TOD (Transit Oriented Developments) going in and pricing the middle class out of renting near public transit:

http://chicagoist.com/2016/05/17/ren...

$3,900 for rent in Logan's Square!?! Damn! That's a lot more than apartment's in Logan's Square would go for when I lived in Chicago. Heck, my girlfriend at the time moved to a place around California and Milwaukee because the neighborhood was so cheap.

Goddamn Longman and Eagle and scofflaw and Revolution. How dare they make Logan Square cool.

Seth wrote:

Goddamn Longman and Eagle and scofflaw and Revolution. How dare they make Logan Square cool.

Point stands that things have gone pretty far pretty quickly up there. Similar story down in Pilsen, which I always thought was ridiculously undervalued given how close to downtown it is.