Privilege & Passive Racism

garion333 wrote:
nel e nel wrote:

Thanks for the cross-post garion, I had forgotten about this thread, which I guess is also pretty telling.

I hadn't seen it, so it must not exist!

Pretty much. That and the fact that it didn't really get traction as a catch-all.

Oh man, I really wish I had MTV now:

I thought MTV already proved their point with that earlier show called #crimingwhileWhite Jersey Shore.

Even in comic books, white privilege shines through...
IMAGE(http://40.media.tumblr.com/da1db7d44100e7e222648fb6921e2fc5/tumblr_nrebdrHT0X1rvya9ro1_r1_1280.png)

A thread about racism that hasn't been shut down? Count me in!

EDIT: haven't read through yet, but couldn't fail to notice that a White man (albeit one married to a Black woman, and the father of a biracial daughter) started this up. And probably has the privilege of not being labelled as angry.

Carry on!

I haven't been labelled as angry no. I was told I was 'not one of us' by an angry White woman once. Which was hilarious rather than insulting.

Just trying to do my small part to amplify issues, and hope this remains unlocked.

I don't mind being called angry during those times when I am. My anger isn't toward any person, it's toward something I perceive as a great wrong in the world. It stems from my love of other people. I don't want to swallow it or pretend it's not there. That would put it in control of me without my being aware of it. Anger is one of the things that motivates me to get off of my ass and do something.

Yeah, but what dee is referring too is the widespread tendency to dismiss Black anger. No matter how matter of fact they are they get tone policed. Us White folks don't get dismissed quite that quickly.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Yeah, but what dee is referring too is the widespread tendency to dismiss Black anger. No matter how matter of fact they are they get tone policed. Us White folks don't get dismissed quite that quickly.

I can't remember which Public Enemy song it was, but the lines "You're quite hostile" followed by "I got a right to be hostile. My people are being persecuted." come to mind.

Paleocon wrote:

I can't remember which Public Enemy song it was, but the lines "You're quite hostile" followed by "I got a right to be hostile. My people are being persecuted." come to mind.

Get down for the Prophets of Rage!

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Yeah, but what dee is referring too is the widespread tendency to dismiss Black anger. No matter how matter of fact they are they get tone policed. Us White folks don't get dismissed quite that quickly.

Exactly. One of the more recent occurrences involves Amandla Stenberg's calling out Kylie Jenner's cultural appropriation.

edit: eh, this really isn't relevant to the conversation.

This could go in multiple threads...

The Airway Heights mayor is refusing to resign after posting comments last week to his personal Facebook page that City Council members say are racist.

Mayor Patrick Rushing, who compared President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama to monkeys, said he did not realize his comments were racist.

“I made a mistake. I owned up to my mistake,” Rushing said. “If I do resign, that’s admitting I’m a racist and I’m not.”

Rushing admits to posting the comments.

“My entire life, race has never been an issue,” Rushing said.

Rushing has two years left in his term as mayor. He’s also running for a seat on the Cheney School District board.

Rushing's Facebook post was "Gorilla face Michelle, can't disagree with that. The woman is not attractive except to monkey man Barack. Check out them ears. LOL."

Rushing claimed the post was "...just playful back and forth banter that my friends and I do." His non-racist friends, of course.

Wow, that's not even "passive" racism.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Yeah, but what dee is referring too is the widespread tendency to dismiss Black anger. No matter how matter of fact they are they get tone policed. Us White folks don't get dismissed quite that quickly.

I did get that, and think anger is more justified for people who bear the brunt of racism. Being dismissed on facebook groups for being an angry racist by folks saying I'm the one who is racist against white people, and I'm the real problem for pointing out racism when it no longer exists. That kind of fed into my response.

As long as we're quoting Chuck.

Brothers that try to work it out
They get mad, revolt, revise, realize, they're super bad

I love PE.

My main point might have differed from that of dee's, but it was an addition to it. Not dismissive or ignorant of it.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I can't remember which Public Enemy song it was, but the lines "You're quite hostile" followed by "I got a right to be hostile. My people are being persecuted." come to mind.

Get down for the Prophets of Rage!

This seems relevant. The sad part is that is 100% applicable to today.

Deleted, because I'm not sure it is relevant to the topic.

Somehow I missed posts from nearly two weeks ago.

LouZiffer wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

Yeah, but what dee is referring too is the widespread tendency to dismiss Black anger. No matter how matter of fact they are they get tone policed. Us White folks don't get dismissed quite that quickly.

I did get that, and think anger is more justified for people who bear the brunt of racism. Being dismissed on facebook groups for being an angry racist by folks saying I'm the one who is racist against white people, and I'm the real problem for pointing out racism when it no longer exists. That kind of fed into my response.

As long as we're quoting Chuck.

Brothers that try to work it out
They get mad, revolt, revise, realize, they're super bad

I love PE.

My main point might have differed from that of dee's, but it was an addition to it. Not dismissive or ignorant of it.

Fair enough and I respect that. It's just so easy for us well intentioned White folks to over ride and equate Black experiences with our own I wanted to clarify the differences. Just in case there was misunderstanding.

And not so much from you as from anyone reading along trying to learn about this. I almost always post in P&C bearing the silent majority in mind.

One of my friends posted this on Facebook, and while it pretty much covers exactly what we have been discussing here, I think this woman breaks it down in way that might make it easier for some skeptical whites to digest.

Laci Green is pretty awesome.

Seen on Twitter tonight:

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMFnXQKUMAAyhhp.jpg)

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMFnXQfUEAEzQdn.jpg)

I didn't realize DWB was grounds for a body cavity search.

I've been taking my grand daughter to the library recently to check out books. She loves horses so one of the books she checked out was a book about police horses. The book had pictures of police horses and explanations of parts of their jobs and/or training.

One page explained how horses were used during crowd control because of their size. I then noticed in the picture that every face in the crowd that was being "controlled" was black. Kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. I wondered to myself would I have noticed this a few years ago and also did the person who created the book even realize what they did?

BadKen wrote:

I didn't realize DWB was grounds for a body cavity search.

We've already established that it's a capital offense.

I didn't see the second article, but I remember seeing the guy with the selfie on imgur yesterday and I immediately thought, "Man, what a time to remind everyone that being arrested while white is such a joke."

karmajay wrote:

I've been taking my grand daughter to the library recently to check out books. She loves horses so one of the books she checked out was a book about police horses. The book had pictures of police horses and explanations of parts of their jobs and/or training.

One page explained how horses were used during crowd control because of their size. I then noticed in the picture that every face in the crowd that was being "controlled" was black. Kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. I wondered to myself would I have noticed this a few years ago and also did the person who created the book even realize what they did?

Yeah, the racism in kids' books can be jarring. My son got the original Curious George book for his birthday. I don't even read the actual text to him... It's basically a story about the slave trade.

Bloo Driver wrote:

I didn't see the second article, but I remember seeing the guy with the selfie on imgur yesterday and I immediately thought, "Man, what a time to remind everyone that being arrested while white is such a joke."

Saw and read the second article and it's every bit as ridiculous as it sounds. Never mind that nothing was found but we still can't call the cop's ability to judge probable cause by scent into question because cop and probable cause.

Interesting article

How Curious George Escaped The Nazis

For example, in Zebrology (1937), an adult book, the Reys humorously trace the evolution of the zebra from both white and black horses. Arguing that people can be different and still live together in harmony, the book humorously ponders: “Is the zebra white with black stripes, or black with white stripes?”

Similarly, the Reys address the issue of discrimination in Spotty (1945), the story of a rabbit snubbed by friends and family because of his unusual spotted fur. The book, which was praised by the Anti-Defamation League, was translated into German as a teaching tool for the “re-education” program in Germany instituted by the U.S. Army after World War II.

I pulled this from the feminism thread because I thought it fit better here:

Hypatian's well written huge wall of words wrote:

Because the only thing that "the white race" has done that other people have not done is set themselves above other people. Pride in your Irish or Dutch or Russian or whatever heritage? Sure. Pride in your white heritage? What the f*ck is white heritage, except racism?

I thought this group of ideas was interesting on several levels. First, the notion that the "white race" is the only one to have set themselves up as better than others since the beginning of history is quickly easily disproven. I must be misunderstanding the point here. Secondly, the idea that heritage comes from skin pigmentation and not a deep connection to family and cultural traditions is very odd to me. Heritage is usually about where you are from, not purely your shade of melanin.

Sure, people use all kinds of reasons to spew hatred, and the whole "white heritage" tripe is usually at the front of the pack, but why do we even label heritage by any color in the first place? African American culture from South Georgia is far different than that of west Philly, or Shreveport, LA for that matter. Labeling it all as "black culture" seems crude and frankly a little racist to me.

I feel like it's time we start recognizing people's cultures for what they are instead of jamming them into some prefabricated mold based on an over generalized stereotype.

Nomad wrote:

Secondly, the idea that heritage comes from skin pigmentation and not a deep connection to family and cultural traditions is very odd to me. Heritage is usually about where you are from, not purely your shade of melanin.

This is exactly the point. There is a common "Black heritage" in the United States on this basis. Not everyone who is Black partakes in it fully, but it exists. And that is true whether you're from Philly or Louisiana. There are differences, yes, but there are also great commonalities to the experiences of Black people in America that do not occur the same way anywhere else, and do occur across the spectrum in the United States.

Because of that, it is absolutely reasonable for Black Americans to take pride in their heritage. In the history of fighting for their rights to be recognized. In the common cultural threads that bind so many together through their history in the American south. In the continuing fight.

And because that is a continuing fight, every single Black person in the United States partakes of that heritage to some degree. Because the fight isn't over. Because all Black people, from coast to coast, from poor to rich, whether they're new immigrants or their family has been here for generations--all of them face things like having to teach their children how to do their best not to get shot by police. How not to be treated as a criminal while shopping. How to behave calmly in the face of outright frothing bigotry to reduce the chance that somebody decides you were the one who started something.

In contrast, there is no such common dominant background for white people in the United States. We each have some pride we might take in our roots--both in terms of where our family came from in past generations living in the U.S., and in terms of when our family members arrived in the U.S. But we don't have that common cause in a continuing fight to be treated with respect.

Or to put it another way: White people don't have a common experience because people don't treat us as if we are all the same. Because people do not pre-judge what a white person is like. Because whiteness is the default--so our other differences are allowed to be important and interesting. Are you from a rich background or a poor one? How long has your family been in the country? Where did you grow up? Were your ancestors miners? Factory workers? Shop keepers?

Black people... evaluation far too often stops at the color of their skin. That's where these stories of respected members of the community being treated as criminals come from, because nobody bothers to ask anything more.

And so, it is that common ill-treatment that creates the shared experience of "Black culture": the experience of being oppressed. And it is that experience that leads Black people to embrace their "Black pride": refusing to accept that they must be treated as second-class, refusing to accept that their cultural heritage (both in Africa and in America) is somehow less valuable than others', honoring the fighting that their forebears (cultural and personal) have done, pledging to keep that fight alive until there is finally justice.

And that's why the only comparable experience of "White culture" is the experience of being the oppressor. That is why the only comprehensible "White pride" is pride in oppression. That is why reasonable people are horrified at the very idea.

And that is why I talked about this in that post. Because I wanted to point out that anybody putting forward some global idea of "pride in our white heritage" is just trying to make white supremacy more palatable.

(And, on the flip side, that with gender it's not quite the same... although there definitely are a lot of common features that pop up.)

But Black pride? Black heritage? Those are real, serious, important things. Those are the only-partially-healed scars of a centuries-long fight against oppression. Those are the backbone of a complex, multi-faceted, diverse people who will not be bowed. We cannot--we must not--wave those away as if they were nothing.

Sure, people use all kinds of reasons to spew hatred, and the whole "white heritage" tripe is usually at the front of the pack, but why do we even label heritage by any color in the first place? African American culture from South Georgia is far different than that of west Philly, or Shreveport, LA for that matter. Labeling it all as "black culture" seems crude and frankly a little racist to me.

There is a common culture though.. a culture of oppression, institutional racism, bigotry, and violence. All from Slavery. The one thing that unites Black America is that all Black Americans had their culture and history completely stripped from them... right down to their names. I can trace my origins on my Mom's side through Greece, then Russia. My Dad from Minnesota, to New York City, to Norway and Sweden. My wife traces her family back to Delaware and then Georgia as "freed" slaves and then its murky and/or non-existent.

White people cannot comprehend this because it is completely incomprehensible. And just look what history has shown us anytime a group of Black American's has tried to unite under some other banner other than Christianity.