Streamers with jobs

wolfstar76 wrote:

It's a creative endeavor, and I have a weird perfectionist streak in my creative persuits - which is probably why I don't persue many of them...)

Yeahhh, I know that feeling. It's partially of why I got out of streaming--I just was not happy at all with the quality of my work. I ended up stopping instead of just forcing myself to put stuff out there. I just got too hung up on being the Next Big Thing or increasing a following instead of just being consistent with the content.

Although lately I've been trying to suppress that perfectionism and realize that I'm just going to make mistakes with the creative output and that not every piece of work is going to be great. I really think the key is to have a rough idea of what you want to do (which it sounds like you do), and then just go with it. Learn along the way what works and what doesn't work, but as long as you're putting work out there you'll improve.

Wish you the best of luck!

CptDomano wrote:
wolfstar76 wrote:

It's a creative endeavor, and I have a weird perfectionist streak in my creative persuits - which is probably why I don't persue many of them...)

Yeahhh, I know that feeling. It's partially of why I got out of streaming--I just was not happy at all with the quality of my work. I ended up stopping instead of just forcing myself to put stuff out there. I just got too hung up on being the Next Big Thing or increasing a following instead of just being consistent with the content.

Although lately I've been trying to suppress that perfectionism and realize that I'm just going to make mistakes with the creative output and that not every piece of work is going to be great. I really think the key is to have a rough idea of what you want to do (which it sounds like you do), and then just go with it. Learn along the way what works and what doesn't work, but as long as you're putting work out there you'll improve.

Wish you the best of luck!

Somehow, being on stream and being "live" over-rides my perfectionist streak. So when I'm gaming I'm (generally) able to just kick back and have fun. While my viewership hasn't grown a whole lot - I have picked up a solid core of 3-5 people who are almost always in my chat when I'm on. They've all gotten to know each other, we have our in-jokes, and it's become a little community.

Last night when a couple new viewers stumbled across my channel, I think having a core group of friendly, welcoming people helped turn those viewers into followers - which feels pretty significant.

The bits and pieces of my stream that aren't just part of the live show (like the overlay a friend made for me that has imperfections. . . ) kinda bug me when I think about them. Video editing will be the same way, I think. I'm going to want to put my "best foot forward" on YouTube. Putting forward something half-ass just. . . no thanks. I'd rather not post it at all.

Then again, it could be fun to look back a year from now and see how far I've come. . .

Streaming Divinity: Original Sin with Cheeto right now. Probably not prime viewing time, but Meh.

EDIT: The culmination of 8 hours of streaming:

This might not be the thread to ask but has twitch fixed the chat lag problem? I've done a lot with other streaming services where chat lag was about 3-5 seconds but twitch has always been more like 30 seconds or more, which makes it nearly impossible to have a conversation if the game is fast paced.

Not that I've seen, its still 20-30 seconds. I've tried other services but the audience just isn't there.

ibdoomed wrote:

This might not be the thread to ask but has twitch fixed the chat lag problem? I've done a lot with other streaming services where chat lag was about 3-5 seconds but twitch has always been more like 30 seconds or more, which makes it nearly impossible to have a conversation if the game is fast paced.

My cousin has taken to Twitching. I've noticed about a minute lag when I visit her stream. So... yeah...

It's very frustrating that the service that performs the worst is the one that takes off. This is why I have no faith in humanity anymore. Why do people not just put up with this, but encourage it.

I think you might have it backwards. It's because of its popularity that it has lag. I'm also curious what you mean by "encouraging it".

Twitch used to be low-latency, but now it isn't. That said, some streams go sub-10 seconds, but it depends on a few different factors. My average is 10-15 for most streams, and I find it to be acceptable.

There's some streaming software that adds latency as well. I know my Roxio Game Capture adds about a five second delay, and depending on how long it takes to connect and transmit to Twitch, it could be even longer.

I have seen a couple streams that hit 5 seconds, but I think that's at Twitch's discretion. Make sure you're viewing streams at Source quality, too. Transcodes are usually further delayed. Only partners get that option, though, and everyone else streams at Source by default.

Edit: For anyone who doesn't know, you can check the delay between you and a streamer by right-clicking the video and selecting 'Video Playback Stats'.

This might be the right thread to ask:

So how do you use Nvidia's Shadowplay? It says my video card is capable but I don't know how to enable it. If I pull off a sweet triple kill in TF2, does it automatically record, or is it some external program?

Sorry I'm completely lost in this subject haha n_n

Hyetal wrote:

I think you might have it backwards. It's because of its popularity that it has lag. I'm also curious what you mean by "encouraging it".

Twitch used to be low-latency, but now it isn't. That said, some streams go sub-10 seconds, but it depends on a few different factors. My average is 10-15 for most streams, and I find it to be acceptable.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Mex wrote:

This might be the right thread to ask:

So how do you use Nvidia's Shadowplay? It says my video card is capable but I don't know how to enable it. If I pull off a sweet triple kill in TF2, does it automatically record, or is it some external program?

Sorry I'm completely lost in this subject haha n_n

Shadowplay is enabled in the GeForce Experience application, and it can work as you describe, but if you wanna do that, Open Broadcaster Software will also do it, plus give you a lot more control.

Veloxi wrote:
Mex wrote:

This might be the right thread to ask:

So how do you use Nvidia's Shadowplay? It says my video card is capable but I don't know how to enable it. If I pull off a sweet triple kill in TF2, does it automatically record, or is it some external program?

Sorry I'm completely lost in this subject haha n_n

Shadowplay is enabled in the GeForce Experience application, and it can work as you describe, but if you wanna do that, Open Broadcaster Software will also do it, plus give you a lot more control.

Awesome! Thanks!

CptDomano wrote:
Hyetal wrote:

I think you might have it backwards. It's because of its popularity that it has lag. I'm also curious what you mean by "encouraging it".

Twitch used to be low-latency, but now it isn't. That said, some streams go sub-10 seconds, but it depends on a few different factors. My average is 10-15 for most streams, and I find it to be acceptable.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Thinking something is acceptable is the same thing as encouraging it? I'm not sure how that makes sense.

I'm actually agreeing with your point and emphasizing the need for clarification from ibdoomed on what "encouraging it" means. Sorry for the confusion.

Ah. My bad. I might have just woken up.

Hyetal wrote:

Ah. My bad. I might have just woken up.

And I was on the way to bed when I posted

Yeah twitch was originally pretty much zero lag, buy they changed how they stream video because the old way was extremely bandwidth intensive and unsustainable for them after they'd grown to a certain point.

It's a question of scalability in the tech and the associated costs.

If any of the other services you mention ever reach near the audience size twitch has I'd expect them to either end up adapting and dealing with a delay or hemmorhage money until they go out of business.

Only way I see that changing is a massive decrease in the cost of bandwidth. Which seems highly unlikely any time soon.

Anybody else remember own3d.tv? They were the biggest competition twitch had for a while. They paid streamers more. They ran fewer ads. There was no delay.

Payments to streamers suddenly stopped and not long after the company was dead. Welcome to the real world.

I think it would only be feasible if the streaming service were something like paid subscription, at least for certain features like a lack of latency. I doubt such a service would be successful.

Managed to catch ParalaxAbstraction streaming a little bit today - if you haven't watched his channel, I recommend it. He's social and personable, and even when he isn't chatting to his audience, he does a great job of narration. Great way to keep people engaged and active.

While he and I were chatting, I happened to mention to him the bot I've been using as my primary bot of late - Ahnkbot. While bot choices seem to be pretty personal, I'm really digging Ahnkbot over my previous choice of moobot (though I'll probably reactivate Moobot for one or two features Ahnkbot doesn't have yet).

First up - Ahnkbot runs local on your computer instead of being hosted by someone else. This has advantages and disadvantages. The upshot is that the bot is very feature-rich, because you're not counting on some third party to provide the infrastructure, processing power, etc. This also means the bot is free - which is pretty slick.

The downside is - if you're not running you PC 24/7, your bot won't be in the channel when you're not online. You also have to make a 2nd twitch account for your bot to use - minor, but a bit of a hassle at first.

I won't go into all the details, but some of the features I like include custom commands, a points/currency system, raffles, sound effect options that the audience can trigger (very customize-able to prevent spamming sounds), and a Death Counter for games that might benefit from such a thing (Dark Souls games for example - though I use it for PayDay2 nights, so that my assorted failures can be counted up all night).

It also has a quoting system that I thoroughly enjoy. My moderators can quickly add a quote of something funny I or my friends say, and that gets added to a database that can either generate a random quote, or call a quote up on-command. Quotes get date and game stamped for posterity as well.

Also available is the option to have your bot auto-/host channels you've approved of, so that your channel can be active even when you're not around. Feed it a list of streams you'd like it to monitor. Tell it how often to swap hosts, and let it go. (Partners can also have the bot auto-play commercials, warn people before commercials play, etc etc etc).

The biggest feature it's missing, in my opinion, is the option to let my moderators set the broadcast title and game. I'll probably keep moobot around for that alone.

You can find AhnkBot here if you're interested: http://marcinswierzowski.com/AnkhBot...

Thin_J wrote:

Anybody else remember own3d.tv? They were the biggest competition twitch had for a while. They paid streamers more. They ran fewer ads. There was no delay.

Payments to streamers suddenly stopped and not long after the company was dead. Welcome to the real world.

I think the people who ran own3d.tv (into the ground) are now behind hitbox.tv - which I rather like the interface for, but yeah - unless and until Google Fiber comes to Cleveland (I'm not holding my breath), I can't reasonably stream to two services, so I haven't really kept up with. I also learned about a new streaming service called beam.pro this week. It could be another one to keep an eye on. I made an account, but haven't done anything with it yet.

I just found this in my inbox, apparently from Twitch.

We are writing to let you know that there may have been unauthorized access to some of your Twitch user account information, including possibly your Twitch username and associated email address, your password (which was cryptographically protected), the last IP address you logged in from, and any of the following if you provided it to us: first and last name, phone number, address, and date of birth.

For your protection, we have expired your password and stream keys. In addition, if you had connected your account to Twitter or YouTube, we have terminated this connection.

You will be prompted to create a new password the next time you attempt to log into your Twitch account. If applicable, you will also need to re-connect your account to Twitter and YouTube, and re-authenticate through Facebook, once you change your password. We also recommend that you change your password at any other website where you use the same or a similar password.

We apologize for this inconvenience.

The Twitch Team

Edit: Found the official post over on Twitch

Decided to give Beam.Pro a spin for my streaming last night - taking advantage of their lower chat/video latency to play assorted JackBox Party Pack games with my viewers.

General impression - I didn't realize how much I missed "nearly real-time" communication with my audience. It made a very noticeable difference in how the entire night felt. The service is VERY much in beta, and it doesn't have much draw, as they've only been open for about a month - and many of the features they want to have are still being added.

Not sure what their use of RTMP means for them in the long-term, or if they're just working on providing an alternative to twitch, and will tackle that part of the problem if/when they gain enough of the market for it to matter.

As a variety streamer, one issue I had is that their library of games to show someone playing is. . . limited. They're manually entering games to their database at this time, so that's not super-awesome.

Then again, they don't have many users yet. If you're broadcasting anything at all, you've only got perhaps a dozen people you're competing against on Beam - so it's currently pretty easy to pickup an audience.

All in all, I feel like they're well worth making an account for.

I tried 'em too, and the lack of a delay was great, but the lack of any export feature pretty much stopped me in my tracks. I'm glad I signed up and hope they improve, but for now I gotta stick with Twitch. :/

Veloxi wrote:

I tried 'em too, and the lack of a delay was great, but the lack of any export feature pretty much stopped me in my tracks. I'm glad I signed up and hope they improve, but for now I gotta stick with Twitch. :/

Yeah, I'm not planning to drop twitch any time soon - but I'm definitely keeping an eye on Beam (and I have the badnwidth to stream to two sites if I keep it to a 2.5k stream. . . ). There's supposed to be a big update coming on the 30th to add a bunch of beta features.

Video Exports are on their roadmap for release, so it's coming. . . in time. https://beam.pro/about

I had the password reset notification too, right in Twitch.

Wanted to report in with everyone about Beam.Pro and how they're coming along with their Beta.

The shortest post is - I'm really, really enjoying Beam - with the caveat that it IS still in beta, and streams can sometimes be flaky as a result.

Right now, I'm fortunate to have the bandwidth to stream to Beam AND to Twitch, which is nice, as Twitch is where the audience is. Period. That said, most of my personal audience has started to hang out on Beam as well, if only for the improved interactivity. I know a lot of people were up in arms when Twitch changed their stream format last year, introducing the ~20second latency we all know and love. I took it as par for the course, better for the company in the long run and figured they'd have it largely worked out by now.

I adapted, as we all did, and am waiting for them to find a magic bullet that will fix it.

Beam, however, has shown me exactly how much I missed that ~3 second lag. It's almost mind-boggling to do something, and get commentary on it more or less instantly. I'd gotten so accustomed to that lagtime, that it was a little jarring at first.

I find myself watching the chat a lot more now, because it matters more who's responding and how quickly. Chat had become "I'll look at it when I look at it" - now I do something cool/funny/stupid and my eyes dart to chat RIGHT AWAY to get reactions. It's pretty incredible.

On the 30th they released a sizeable update, inlcuding 2-Factor Authentication. Given the state of security across the Internet lately, this is a great option to have. The release notes are pretty sizeable.

I also found that Beam is planning to stick with RTMP, and think they've got the agreements and infrastructure in place that will allow them to keep costs and performance reasonable even as the site grows, the details are listed in their #WhatDelay document on Google Docs.

Its an interesting read, though I'll confess I'm not well-versed in streaming infrastructure tech and design to know how feasible their plan really is or isn't.

All the happy-glowy-fanboy stuff aside - the site really IS in Beta, and it shows in a couple places.

Most noteably, as a streamer, is that my stream will randomly "go dark" for everyone in my audience simultaniously. A refresh (or several refreshes) is the only solution to the problem. It's easy to write off, for now, since the site is in development, but I can see where my tolerance for that is going to grow thin in a couple months (though, I should also probably report when that happens, so they can better chase down the issue. . . just hard to think of that when I'm mid-game and its late at night. . . ).

As a viewer, I'm also a little disappointed in the variety of streams available, as well as their limited "catalog" of games currently on the site, by which I mean:
"Every" stream seems to be Minecraft. I'm not a Minecraft fan, so if my group of friends aren't streaming, I can't often find anything to watch.

  • Their "games database" (through which you can list what game you're streaming, or browse for streams to watch) is updated manually at present - which means there's a couple dozen games in there at most, and most of those don't have anyone streaming (see Minecraft, above)
  • This is probably pretty normal, as they ARE a small site that's been operating maybe two months now - and just the other day their twitter account announced that they'd hit 100 streams (for the day or simultaneous, I'm not sure) for the first time. And it's the sort of think that will get itself sorted, I'm sure - but it's a bit of a cart-before-the-horse issue. Hard to grow a general audience if you don't offer them what they want to see. Lumping the games I play (like tonight's PayDay 2 session) under "Misc" doesn't help people find games that aren't minecraft. Then again, they won't probably update the games list until there's people wanting to see (and stream) other content. . . .

    Even with these issues - I cannot overstate how much my friends and I are loving Beam.Pro. There's not much wrong with Twitch, I wouldn't enjoy streaming as a hobby as much as I do if not for Twitch. But Beam.Pro has really lit a fire under me again. It's made streaming fun and exciting and fresh all over again.

    It's well worth trying out - especially if you have the bandwidth and tools to stream to multiple sites simultaneously.

    It probably isn't worth switching to entirely just yet (especially if you're a partner) - but I can see it being a serious contender in six months to a year. As a consumer/user - I love competition in a marketplace.

    One of my friends just found and told me about restream.io - a free re-streaming service.

    Allegedly, you stream to them, feed them your stream keys (which, of course, requires trust in the site), and then THEY stream for you to as many sites as you want from there.

    Want to stream to Twitch, YouTube, and UStream at the same time? Fire up a stream to Restream and they'll do the rest. Allegedly. They can also create a pop-up window of all your chats for you.

    Haven't tried it yet, and can't find much in the way of details for the service (who's backing it? Is it free forever?) but, the promise of it seems nifty.

    I love the idea of it, but I so don't love the idea of giving them my keys.