This Old #%&@*$ House

So, lunch today - this is the one day of the year I have been able to come home for lunch - a home remodel salesman comes to the door. It's 12:30 - is that really a good time for sales pitches?

Anyway, we have been considering replacing two milky windows in our dining room. So, I listen to the guy and set up the free estimate visit. I am then informed that they will take measurements of ALL house windows, not just the ones I want. Ugh... Okay...

I look them up after the guy leaves. Multiple reviews stating these estimate visits take 3 - 5 HOURS. Nope.

We have the choice yo just replace the glass on the milky windows but I think they have seal issues and should be replaced. I just don't want to deal with a runaround or attempt to sell us more than we need.

Zoso1701 wrote:

So, lunch today - this is the one day of the year I have been able to come home for lunch - a home remodel salesman comes to the door. It's 12:30 - is that really a good time for sales pitches?

Anyway, we have been considering replacing two milky windows in our dining room. So, I listen to the guy and set up the free estimate visit. I am then informed that they will take measurements of ALL house windows, not just the ones I want. Ugh... Okay...

I look them up after the guy leaves. Multiple reviews stating these estimate visits take 3 - 5 HOURS. Nope.

We have the choice yo just replace the glass on the milky windows but I think they have seal issues and should be replaced. I just don't want to deal with a runaround or attempt to sell us more than we need.

Do you guys have Wallside over by you? We used them last year to buy all new windows for the house, and I've been impressed with the service we got during my use (from the sales woman who was not pushy to the installation team that worked with me on how I wanted certain windows put in)

Zoso1701 wrote:

Anyway, we have been considering replacing two milky windows in our dining room. So, I listen to the guy and set up the free estimate visit. I am then informed that they will take measurements of ALL house windows, not just the ones I want. Ugh... Okay...

I look them up after the guy leaves. Multiple reviews stating these estimate visits take 3 - 5 HOURS. Nope.

You could always tell them they've got 30 minutes of access to the house, and then you're going out. He can spend as much time as he wants measuring windows, but he'll have to do it on a ladder, from outside. They can leave the written estimate in your mailbox when they're done.

Alternatively, is Homestars.com a thing near you? From the ads I've seen from south of the border, it's a little like Angie's List, except there's no membership fee. I've never had a problem with any contractor I hired through high Homestars reviews. If it's set up in your neck of the woods, I'm sure that you can find a windows contractor who'd do what you want and not try to upsell you.

Home stars and Wallside are not things in my area, and that's okay! We have a contractor we trust and genuinely like. I just got completely suckered by the random sales call (and my inability to say no, thanks).

Feegle, the 30 minute rule sounds good and that eliminates the ability for the materials sales pitch to occur. According to reviews about PowerHRG, that is a large chunk of their estimate time.

I'm so pleased with the iPhone's blocking ability. Got a call from them at 8:00 this morning. No, thanks.

Need to learn from this. As a consumer, I know what I want to do with the house when we are financially able to do it. My wife and I don't need someone telling us; we can seek out the best value services when appropriate.

Yeah, my policy is if they approach me, my answer is automatically no, even if it's something I think I need. If they're approaching you for work, it's because they're not currently working, which in the land of referrals-based services probably means they suck.

Yeah we had some shady sh*t pitched at us at our last house by one dude. We told him flat out we weren't buying anything that day and he wouldn't stop pushing.
The next guy was better, but I got a feeling replacement window sales can is a buyer-beware place.

Ermagerhd! Flehring and Kernterterps!

IMAGE(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-l83X1HxPh64/VNgRSDKYJCI/AAAAAAAAAzo/x8JYrW5OiTI/w1104-h622-no/IMG_20150208_194408731.jpg)
IMAGE(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yBHCk7RyR4k/VNgReWXAv6I/AAAAAAAAAzw/MJtYZ7iFqoQ/w1104-h622-no/IMG_20150208_194303971.jpg)
IMAGE(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-w6qZkbwoDbA/VNgRp4rvFsI/AAAAAAAAAz4/IwbjxluAxr0/w683-h1213-no/IMG_20150208_194436286.jpg)

I'm so very tired...just want to sleep...

EDIT: 1st pic is the most true-to-life color of the flooring. My phone's camera sucks.

Minarchist wrote:

Ermagerhd! Flehring and Kernterterps!

IMAGE(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-l83X1HxPh64/VNgRSDKYJCI/AAAAAAAAAzo/x8JYrW5OiTI/w1104-h622-no/IMG_20150208_194408731.jpg)
IMAGE(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yBHCk7RyR4k/VNgReWXAv6I/AAAAAAAAAzw/MJtYZ7iFqoQ/w1104-h622-no/IMG_20150208_194303971.jpg)

I'm so very tired...just want to sleep...

As a fellow tired person, my brain interpreted the floor in the top picture as some sort of beam in the second, and that you had a very weird ceiling.

Getting ready to finish about half of our basement, and I'm completely stumped by one corner of the room. The area I'm wanting to finish is roughly L-shaped. The long part of the L I want to use for a home theater arrangement (the TV in the corner of the L). The short part of the L will be near the back door and is where I want to put a game table and all of our game shelves.

The problem is the rest of the stuff in that corner of the L. That's where the main water shutoff and electrical breaker box are located. It's also where I need to keep ceiling access for a shutoff valve for an exterior hose bib. I can't figure out how to keep access to all that stuff, while still making that area suitable for setting up a TV/sound system, without giving up a lot of space. Mostly I want to find the people who built my house and say very negative things. It's almost like they designed the basement to be the least suitable arrangement for finishing into living space.

Boudreaux wrote:

Getting ready to finish about half of our basement, and I'm completely stumped by one corner of the room. The area I'm wanting to finish is roughly L-shaped. The long part of the L I want to use for a home theater arrangement (the TV in the corner of the L). The short part of the L will be near the back door and is where I want to put a game table and all of our game shelves.

The problem is the rest of the stuff in that corner of the L. That's where the main water shutoff and electrical breaker box are located. It's also where I need to keep ceiling access for a shutoff valve for an exterior hose bib. I can't figure out how to keep access to all that stuff, while still making that area suitable for setting up a TV/sound system, without giving up a lot of space. Mostly I want to find the people who built my house and say very negative things. It's almost like they designed the basement to be the least suitable arrangement for finishing into living space.

Can you leave an opening and put an access door over the area? I found this example: http://www.thehouseofsmiths.com/2013...

Yellek, that's exactly what I would do if it were just the single water shut-off valve (although that example is one freaking huge door for one little valve). Combine that with the electrical box, the hose bib valve, and leaving access for the cable TV/internet hookups (I'm still not sure about that) and I either need one big closet there or I'm going to have 4 or 5 of those doors all in one corner, some down low and some up at the ceiling. Which would look kind of weird.

I actually like the idea of framing in a long, narrow closet there that would contain all of this stuff, but then I'm losing a couple dozen square feet of space in the finished room. Not sure I want to do that, the whole finished part of the basement will be only about 350 sq. ft. as it is.

Thanks for that example, though, that's handy.

Is it all on one wall? I'm thinking you could make it like a feature instead of an annoyance. Make a wall grid of panel moulding like this, except raised door panels instead of recessed.
IMAGE(http://www.classicaladdiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/5.-luis-bustamante-habituallychic.jpg)

Boudreaux wrote:

Getting ready to finish about half of our basement, and I'm completely stumped by one corner of the room. The area I'm wanting to finish is roughly L-shaped. The long part of the L I want to use for a home theater arrangement (the TV in the corner of the L). The short part of the L will be near the back door and is where I want to put a game table and all of our game shelves.

The problem is the rest of the stuff in that corner of the L. That's where the main water shutoff and electrical breaker box are located. It's also where I need to keep ceiling access for a shutoff valve for an exterior hose bib. I can't figure out how to keep access to all that stuff, while still making that area suitable for setting up a TV/sound system, without giving up a lot of space. Mostly I want to find the people who built my house and say very negative things. It's almost like they designed the basement to be the least suitable arrangement for finishing into living space.

Without seeing a full layout or pictures, it's hard to say what'd work best. My first instinct is similar to Yellek's but more overt, in that I'd advise framing that space out in the same manner as a small closet with a full-on door. Unless you're having to build in a foot along a significant length, the loss in area should be pretty negligible.

Yeah, it possible for you to post a picture and highlight what you need to keep/access?

We have to replace the drywall and retile one side of our shower.

The nincompoop who did the remodel not only used the OG shower valve (which failed), but also the original galvanized pipe. I need to consider turning this back into a rental after the requisite needed work.

AnimeJ wrote:

Without seeing a full layout or pictures, it's hard to say what'd work best. My first instinct is similar to Yellek's but more overt, in that I'd advise framing that space out in the same manner as a small closet with a full-on door. Unless you're having to build in a foot along a significant length, the loss in area should be pretty negligible.

Here's the basic layout. The bottom red circle is where the main water shutoff valve is, the upper red circle is where the exterior hose bib valve is located in the ceiling. Red box is the electrical panel. That wall is where I'd like to hang a TV, facing right toward the bathroom. Seating will be where it says "Living Room/Play Area". Upper area near the exterior door is slated for shelves and our gaming table.

IMAGE(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9PxeM1_0ycQ/VO5CXn5TosI/AAAAAAAABD8/r3hSv28XA7A/s1600/basement.jpg)

I'll try posting a photo later that shows the actual corner.

AnimeJ wrote:
Boudreaux wrote:

Getting ready to finish about half of our basement, and I'm completely stumped by one corner of the room. The area I'm wanting to finish is roughly L-shaped. The long part of the L I want to use for a home theater arrangement (the TV in the corner of the L). The short part of the L will be near the back door and is where I want to put a game table and all of our game shelves.

The problem is the rest of the stuff in that corner of the L. That's where the main water shutoff and electrical breaker box are located. It's also where I need to keep ceiling access for a shutoff valve for an exterior hose bib. I can't figure out how to keep access to all that stuff, while still making that area suitable for setting up a TV/sound system, without giving up a lot of space. Mostly I want to find the people who built my house and say very negative things. It's almost like they designed the basement to be the least suitable arrangement for finishing into living space.

Without seeing a full layout or pictures, it's hard to say what'd work best. My first instinct is similar to Yellek's but more overt, in that I'd advise framing that space out in the same manner as a small closet with a full-on door. Unless you're having to build in a foot along a significant length, the loss in area should be pretty negligible.

The closest door would also need to be directly in front of the electrical panel with three feet of space from the front of the panel box to keep it up to code.

Boudreaux wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Without seeing a full layout or pictures, it's hard to say what'd work best. My first instinct is similar to Yellek's but more overt, in that I'd advise framing that space out in the same manner as a small closet with a full-on door. Unless you're having to build in a foot along a significant length, the loss in area should be pretty negligible.

Here's the basic layout. The bottom red circle is where the main water shutoff valve is, the upper red circle is where the exterior hose bib valve is located in the ceiling. Red box is the electrical panel. That wall is where I'd like to hang a TV, facing right toward the bathroom. Seating will be where it says "Living Room/Play Area". Upper area near the exterior door is slated for shelves and our gaming table.

IMAGE(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9PxeM1_0ycQ/VO5CXn5TosI/AAAAAAAABD8/r3hSv28XA7A/s1600/basement.jpg)

I'll try posting a photo later that shows the actual corner.

Nah, that's perfect. Also, that is indeed a really rough configuration to work with. Looking at that, I'd actually reverse your proposed layout. You've got 7 feet of wall on the bathroom end, so I'd put your entertainment stuff there, and go with a sectional or something similar down in the corner where all your utilities are. Frame out a closet for that stuff 3 feet out from the wall to meet code(thanks for that bit of knowledge, I was not aware of it), and wide enough to encompass the hose bib access. If you've got glass on those exterior doors, this will also give you more control over the lighting directly on the TV as well, unless there are windows in that wall I'm not identifying.

AnimeJ wrote:

Nah, that's perfect. Also, that is indeed a really rough configuration to work with. Looking at that, I'd actually reverse your proposed layout. You've got 7 feet of wall on the bathroom end, so I'd put your entertainment stuff there, and go with a sectional or something similar down in the corner where all your utilities are. Frame out a closet for that stuff 3 feet out from the wall to meet code(thanks for that bit of knowledge, I was not aware of it), and wide enough to encompass the hose bib access. If you've got glass on those exterior doors, this will also give you more control over the lighting directly on the TV as well, unless there are windows in that wall I'm not identifying.

OK, I'm intrigued. I had not thought of putting a TV on that wall by the bathroom, but that might work. I was thinking of building installed shelving on that wall (and wrapping around to the left), but that's not set in stone. I'm not crazy about losing the space it would take to build a closet enclosing all that stuff, but I also am not crazy about having the electrical box exposed on the wall in a finished area. Is it against code to leave your electrical box exposed in a finished area, but hang a painting over it? I need to get an NEC book and start reading...

My dad suggested building out a closet there as well, which - if I hung the TV on that closet wall - would also give me the benefit of accessing all the wiring to the TV and surround system inside said closet. I could probably even keep the HT receiver and other components hidden in the closet. I wasn't aware of the code requirement and having the door in front of the panel though, so that might not work.

No windows anywhere else in the basement. When finished, that walk-out door (it's a french door) will be the only source of natural light. The opposite wall (bottom of that drawing) is the side of the house where the basement is below ground. I had debated putting a TV on the bottom wall (just to the right of water main) but I was worried about glare from the door. That's the south side of the house, so there's a lot of light coming through there in the afternoon.

Sometimes I just think "Eff it, let's buy a different house."

Building out and further to have all your HT equipment behind the wall would be very workable as well, and for ease of wiring purposes, better than putting it on the bathroom wall.

My first thought when you said the electric panel was in the way was to suggest you just hang a picture over it. If you are worried about inspectors just wait until after the inspect to put the picture up.

For the water knobs, it is not clear if they are on the wall (how high up?) or on the ceiling. Maybe you could strategically place a wall mounted speaker or a wall shelf or tall lamp to hide them?

Here's a photo of the corner in question. I circled the exterior shutoff valve (upper right) and main water shutoff (lower left) in red. The main water valve sticks out from the basement wall about 6". The T that sticks out to the left just above it is a faucet. I would remove that and cap that line. The exterior shutoff valve is almost up in the ceiling joists, but the valve handle sticks down a few inches and would be below the finish ceiling height, so I'll have to frame something a little lower to contain that.

IMAGE(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8V0lQYEmkL8/VO6b5E3M1EI/AAAAAAAABEM/KEgalrrwn-w/s1600/corner.jpg)

Yes, there is still a lot of crap in the basement that needs to be moved.

I've been wondering about just concealing the panel behind a hinged cabinet door. There are an awful lot of examples online of people showing how they did that. I'll be getting in touch with the local inspection department tomorrow to get guidance on what I'm allowed to do.

Boudreaux, is that a Telecaster in that there guitar case?

And, that setup isn't nearly as bad as ours. The main water valve is right next to the power box in our house! ...it's awesomely dumb. Guess 1954 people didn't understand electricity and water? Do you have pipes running directly over your box? Is that a more common thing than not?

Oh, when we do look for a new house, I have many things to look for. Being a first-time homebuyer, ugh, in hindsight we overlooked some obvious stuff. Life is a lot of lessons, though I suppose!

Bass guitar. I have a Stratocaster case just like it, but smaller.

The valve in the upper right is to shut off water to the exterior hose bib when it's cold, so the pipes don't freeze. First winter in the house, at some point that pipe froze and burst. In the spring, I went to hook up the hose and wash the car and wasn't getting any water pressure. Went into the basement to see if the valve was still closed to find water pouring down the basement wall, 12" to the right of that electrical panel. Reaching up to shut that off was one of the scarier (and probably stupider) things I've ever done.

It's not a trivial job, but have you considered moving the electrical panel to the wall beside the main water shutoff? Might be worth the work if it makes your space better in the long-term.

I've thought about paying someone to do it, yes. That's not a job I would attempt myself. In the end I think I'd just end up with a door in a different spot. It really needs to be in a completely different part of the basement, but I don't see how that's possible.

Yeah that one that is low down on the wall you could just do a drywall bump out from the edge of that pipe to the corner, assuming when you build out the wall the pipe is further out than your wall depth will be. Then for the handle just leave it sticking out of the drywall with a flange and hide it with something. It is low enough down that a speaker, a bookcase, end table, guitar stand, etc... something should be able to hide it. Or cover the whole thing in a decorative column that is painted the same color as the wall with a hinged cutout to access the valve?

For the ceiling one personally I would probably just leave it sticking out of the finished ceiling and live with it. Maybe replace both of them with a quarter turn valve which takes up less space and is less noticeable. Paint it the same color as the ceiling and most people won't even notice it.

Another option, not sure what you are planning for the TV but have you considered built-ins? You could probably create something that has false backs/covers to conceal all three of those while still allowing access when needed.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Another option, not sure what you are planning for the TV but have you considered built-ins? You could probably create something that has false backs/covers to conceal all three of those while still allowing access when needed.

I'm not sure what you mean by "built-ins". Can you elaborate?

Heard back from the building office and it is okay to frame around the electrical panel and cover it with a door, so I will plan to do some version of that over building a closet and losing that much space. I think I could build a small soffit near the ceiling to conceal the exterior valve shutoff with an attic-style removable panel, and I will probably do a similar door on the left for the main water valve. I'll have to see how the finished spacing works out, but I may even be able to cover the panel with a framed picture, and hang a TV next to it. That would be a more ideal solution if it doesn't push the TV too far to the right.

I meant like built-in shelves/cabinets. Wrap the whole corner in a nice big cabinet/shelf system that has hinged false backs around the areas you need to access, or design it so those areas are in a cabinet part. A lot of them are built around an area for a large TV.

IMAGE(http://www.sekashomes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/built-in-shelves-1.jpg)

That looks expensive. Nice, but expensive.

Interesting idea though. Will ponder further.