Wildstar: Catch All

Yeah, auto loot is on, it's the targeting of the dead enemy by clicking on it (or tab, probably) that I don't believe has been done in WoW. In other games I just walk up to it and the game recognizes there's something in front of me. WoW plays dumb.

garion333 wrote:

Yeah, auto loot is on, it's the targeting of the dead enemy by clicking on it (or tab, probably) that I don't believe has been done in WoW. In other games I just walk up to it and the game recognizes there's something in front of me. WoW plays dumb.

10-4. I wonder if any add-ons do this for the game. It obviously knows when something is "lootable" by you being close enough to loot it, shouldn't be a stretch to make it more like GW2 to just hit a key to do it.

garion333 wrote:

Yeah, auto loot is on, it's the targeting of the dead enemy by clicking on it (or tab, probably) that I don't believe has been done in WoW. In other games I just walk up to it and the game recognizes there's something in front of me. WoW plays dumb.

10-4. I wonder if any add-ons do this for the game. It obviously knows when something is "lootable" by you being close enough to loot it, shouldn't be a stretch to make it more like GW2 to just hit a key to do it.

So, Hypestar more appropriate or was it actually good/fun? I haven't played it but it seemed like there was a lot of talk pre-release, the devs were saying all the right things and now a lot of threads on multiple forums have died down significantly. Any particular reason for that?

liquid wrote:

So, Hypestar more appropriate or was it actually good/fun? I haven't played it but it seemed like there was a lot of talk pre-release, the devs were saying all the right things and now a lot of threads on multiple forums have died down significantly. Any particular reason for that?

It was fun to play, but they had a lot of holes in design. There was a lot of talk about solo-PVE content tiers like raid tiers that never really materialized. Everything end game is pointing towards that 20 man raid or PVP. There's plenty of faction rep to earn, but the big one is limited to like 3 or 4 quests per day and nothing else. There's no solo instances like they were touting except for a few random ones you can plunk down on your property, and those are really not tied to the story (or fun at all).

So definitely some falling short on hype.

But, the way they've even set up progression for getting into the raid is pretty bad. Raid attunement is like a 16 step process... and while some of those are solo-able, a few of them are not as well. Max level 5 mans where you have to get silver or gold ranking on it, which requires no deaths and in some of those instances, require RNG luck in the instance intself (War of the Wilds, for instance, to get silver or gold requires you to complete a # of optional objectives within a certain time frame... but what objectives you get, how obtainable they are, and even the NUMBER of optional objectives available can vary with each runthrough... but the max is needed for gold and one less for silver and that's not guaranteed... add on top of that the "PVP-style" combat where nothing is tankable and you're one death away from not being able to even get silver... which means the whole party drops... which means you can't learn the full instance unless you have someone who knows it and everything goes just right...).

Add on top of that a terrible crafting limiter (daily fetch quest for mats to LEARN a recipe, not make a recipe)... and a crap economy as a whole (literally from day one until I quit, I made more money vendoring mats than selling them on the auction house/commodity exchange) where the only item I made money auctioning was a costume piece... and I just couldn't justify the time I was putting into it anymore. Especially when the cool stuff to buy was like 80-100 plat and a month of gametime would sell for like 4, wheras farming and dailies would get me that amount over the course of about 2 weeks.

WizardM0de wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Yeah, auto loot is on, it's the targeting of the dead enemy by clicking on it (or tab, probably) that I don't believe has been done in WoW. In other games I just walk up to it and the game recognizes there's something in front of me. WoW plays dumb.

10-4. I wonder if any add-ons do this for the game. It obviously knows when something is "lootable" by you being close enough to loot it, shouldn't be a stretch to make it more like GW2 to just hit a key to do it.

Loot-a-rang! Keybind it and it's functionally the same as the loot pickup systems in those other games. We engineers are pretty awesome.

I liked Wildstar, but it just didn't grab me at all. It actually drove me back to WoW after a long hiatus.

Demosthenes wrote:
liquid wrote:

So, Hypestar more appropriate or was it actually good/fun? I haven't played it but it seemed like there was a lot of talk pre-release, the devs were saying all the right things and now a lot of threads on multiple forums have died down significantly. Any particular reason for that?

It was fun to play, but they had a lot of holes in design. There was a lot of talk about solo-PVE content tiers like raid tiers that never really materialized. Everything end game is pointing towards that 20 man raid or PVP. There's plenty of faction rep to earn, but the big one is limited to like 3 or 4 quests per day and nothing else. There's no solo instances like they were touting except for a few random ones you can plunk down on your property, and those are really not tied to the story (or fun at all).

So definitely some falling short on hype.

But, the way they've even set up progression for getting into the raid is pretty bad. Raid attunement is like a 16 step process... and while some of those are solo-able, a few of them are not as well. Max level 5 mans where you have to get silver or gold ranking on it, which requires no deaths and in some of those instances, require RNG luck in the instance intself (War of the Wilds, for instance, to get silver or gold requires you to complete a # of optional objectives within a certain time frame... but what objectives you get, how obtainable they are, and even the NUMBER of optional objectives available can vary with each runthrough... but the max is needed for gold and one less for silver and that's not guaranteed... add on top of that the "PVP-style" combat where nothing is tankable and you're one death away from not being able to even get silver... which means the whole party drops... which means you can't learn the full instance unless you have someone who knows it and everything goes just right...).

Add on top of that a terrible crafting limiter (daily fetch quest for mats to LEARN a recipe, not make a recipe)... and a crap economy as a whole (literally from day one until I quit, I made more money vendoring mats than selling them on the auction house/commodity exchange) where the only item I made money auctioning was a costume piece... and I just couldn't justify the time I was putting into it anymore. Especially when the cool stuff to buy was like 80-100 plat and a month of gametime would sell for like 4, wheras farming and dailies would get me that amount over the course of about 2 weeks.

Well that sounds horrible. Good if you're in a no-lifing guild or group I guess but I would be extremely surprised if they actually wanted it this way. After all, you want the hardcore players to be there but they are always built on a more casual audience that also replenishes the HC one. If all that is the case, I am surprised there's no more public outcry about these problems (thinking more of general news sites that aren't mmo-specific).

liquid wrote:

If all that is the case, I am surprised there's no more public outcry about these problems (thinking more of general news sites that aren't mmo-specific).

Sadly the public is used to MMOs falling short of the hype. What's sad is the wasted potential with this title. The dungeons they created were some of the most fun I've ran in almost a decade.

ranalin wrote:
liquid wrote:

If all that is the case, I am surprised there's no more public outcry about these problems (thinking more of general news sites that aren't mmo-specific).

Sadly the public is used to MMOs falling short of the hype. What's sad is the wasted potential with this title. The dungeons they created were some of the most fun I've ran in almost a decade.

Yup and the world/universe and its lore was fascinating as hell. Wish they had made a series of RPGs with coop a la DA:I sounds like it's going to be instead.

Unfortunately not unexpected. I honestly wonder how we haven't heard about layoffs surrounding Elder Scrolls Online yet. They seem to have had a similar trajectory to Wildstar.

Sad, but beyond expected after key members have been leaving.

Kehama wrote:

Unfortunately not unexpected. I honestly wonder how we haven't heard about layoffs surrounding Elder Scrolls Online yet. They seem to have had a similar trajectory to Wildstar.

There was some "leaked" info a few months back that seems to indicate that ESO is actually doing fairly well. It's entirely subjective, but whenever I log it still seems as busy as when it first came out (whereas Wildstar was a ghost town after the first month).

I hope ESO does well enough to at least get the console versions launched.

You and me both. I think TESO is doing fine. Not great, but fine. They already had a round of layoffs that they claimed were expected.

I tend to this teso is okay well. It has a built in fanbase and while not a huge departure, it's still fairly innovative in the mmo space.

Wildstar was a game everyone has been playing for 15 years already. No amount of style will save that

Cobble wrote:

Wildstar was a game everyone has been playing for 15 years already. No amount of style will save that

Not only that, but it also didn't learn from any of the mistakes or successes of the others that came before it. And it ran like absolute crap.

WizardM0de wrote:
Cobble wrote:

Wildstar was a game everyone has been playing for 15 years already. No amount of style will save that

Not only that, but it also didn't learn from any of the mistakes or successes of the others that came before it. And it ran like absolute crap.

Err, what? The launch was damn good, they launched with more content than just about everyone else and it ran fine for me (anecdote, obv, but it runs just like GW2 for me).

Now, if you mean they didn't learn that people don't really want an updated WoW with a sub then, sure, I agree. Add in the design decisions that a lot of people don't like and that's why the exodus was SO quick.

I think the other thing that did in Wildstar is that (for me at least) the MMO community changed.

If this had come out in 2006/7 and was competing with WoW during TBC / early WotLK then I think you have more comparable experiences.

Now, however, it seems that expectation is that all MMO content will be facerolls and it is clearly the fault of the other folks when it is not. That attitude does not work well with the way Wildstar works where, as has been pointed out, tanking and healing are much more difficult, there is massive amounts of AoE that the tank cannot stop, and everyone having some other utility (cc, off heals, etc) and not just pure dps is needed.

I never got past the mid 20's level wise, so I cannot comment on the higher level content. For me what did the game in is the attitude and the expectations of the general population in this game.

garion333 wrote:
WizardM0de wrote:
Cobble wrote:

Wildstar was a game everyone has been playing for 15 years already. No amount of style will save that

Not only that, but it also didn't learn from any of the mistakes or successes of the others that came before it. And it ran like absolute crap.

Err, what? The launch was damn good, they launched with more content than just about everyone else and it ran fine for me (anecdote, obv, but it runs just like GW2 for me).

Now, if you mean they didn't learn that people don't really want an updated WoW with a sub then, sure, I agree. Add in the design decisions that a lot of people don't like and that's why the exodus was SO quick.

Pretty much this.

and while they advertised the end game would be a hardcore experience the mmo world moved WAY beyond being gated to that content by unneeded grinds.

Garrcia wrote:

Now, however, it seems that expectation is that all MMO content will be facerolls and it is clearly the fault of the other folks when it is not. That attitude does not work well with the way Wildstar works where, as has been pointed out, tanking and healing are much more difficult, there is massive amounts of AoE that the tank cannot stop, and everyone having some other utility (cc, off heals, etc) and not just pure dps is needed.

There are other games with difficult content that are doing fine so I don't think that's necessarily true. The problem with Wildstar's multiplayer content wasn't the difficulty or the mechanics, it was the incentivization. Party wipes once on a boss? It's now impossible to gold-rank the dungeon and your chances of receiving the best loot are greatly diminished, so half the party leaves rather than waste time finishing the dungeon for inferior loot. Regardless of whether they intended it or not, it's a recipe for toxic behavior in multiplayer.

ruhk wrote:
Garrcia wrote:

Now, however, it seems that expectation is that all MMO content will be facerolls and it is clearly the fault of the other folks when it is not. That attitude does not work well with the way Wildstar works where, as has been pointed out, tanking and healing are much more difficult, there is massive amounts of AoE that the tank cannot stop, and everyone having some other utility (cc, off heals, etc) and not just pure dps is needed.

There are other games with difficult content that are doing fine so I don't think that's necessarily true. The problem with Wildstar's multiplayer content wasn't the difficulty or the mechanics, it was the incentivization. Party wipes once on a boss? It's now impossible to gold-rank the dungeon and your chances of receiving the best loot are greatly diminished, so half the party leaves rather than waste time finishing the dungeon for inferior loot. Regardless of whether they intended it or not, it's a recipe for toxic behavior in multiplayer.

Yup, it also makes learning the instance a nightmare as the likelihood of finishing any instance drops with each failure. While this is already true in other MMOs, that g/s/b mechanic makes it more likely than in other games.

garion333 wrote:

Yeah, auto loot is on, it's the targeting of the dead enemy by clicking on it (or tab, probably) that I don't believe has been done in WoW. In other games I just walk up to it and the game recognizes there's something in front of me. WoW plays dumb.

Area auto loot is smith fire me in this regard. One click or one press, either is fine for me.

Gigantic patch/update launched yesterday.

Carbine is still out there doing interviews trying to say they're okay. I don't buy it.

Which is a huge shame, it's a damn fine game with some fairly serious issues, but damn fine game otherwise.

I think I've been saying this for 9 months now.

Great gameplay, horrible instance reward system and crafting... which kind of breaks it for MMOs. Shame, as the world itself is incredibly fascinating to me and I would love to see so much more there.

garion333 wrote:

Which is a huge shame, it's a damn fine game with some fairly serious issues, but damn fine game otherwise.

Agreed. I really enjoyed my time with it.

I see that Nexon has been trying a hostile takeover of NCSoft as well..

Apparently there is a news blurb about NCsoft buying stock in another company to block Nexon's hostile takeover bid.
http://massivelyop.net/2015/02/17/nc...