Depression is ruining my life.

In all honesty, you're probably going to wait a long time for her to find a job, move or get insurance. Everything you've written so far points to the fact that she isn't capable of doing it and you could probably cut her off as soon as possible because otherwise, you're going to be stuck supporting her till the heat death of the sun like the last decade of your marriage, like you wrote.

I love reacting to frustration with anger. And then getting frustrated about that, leading to more anger.
Wheee.

Edwin wrote:

Everything you've written so far points to the fact that she isn't capable of doing it and you could probably cut her off as soon as possible because otherwise, you're going to be stuck supporting her till the heat death of the sun like the last decade of your marriage, like you wrote.

Oh, I agree completely. The issue I'm running into, per Mr. Attorney, is that if I finalize the divorce before she gets her own job and insurance I can be seen as trying to abandon her which he states the courts would view very negatively and effectively turn me into the Bad Guy. She and I have both stated we don't want to have any alimony or child support as part of this but when you've been married over 10 years the state usually favors it. Using the state provided formula and tables she would get almost half of my monthly income as alimony. I was amazed that they draw their figures from pre-tax income along with other stuff. I could counter that with asking for child support from her but, again, not trying to go that route. Basically I need the courts to see that I'm not trying to screw her over. Now if she goes for a year or something without getting a job? Yeah, I could argue that she wasn't even trying as long as she's physically cable of working and is not declared disabled by the state. She still has paperwork in for that but I really don't see that as even having a remote possibility of being approved.

I didn't realize it was that complicated. =\

Good luck man, we're rooting for you.

boogle wrote:

I love reacting to frustration with anger. And then getting frustrated about that, leading to more anger.
Wheee.

In session, my psychologist identified frustration as anger internalized.

Sounds like you've got a 'build and release' loop in place.

Can you vent in a meaningful way (physical exertion, screaming into a pillow, heavy workout) that could divert some of the buildup out of the equation for yourself?

Might work, might not. Either way ((((hugs)))).

Edwin wrote:

I didn't realize it was that complicated. =\r

Good luck man, we're rooting for you.

+1

Taking more of what I'm taking and I've gone from incredibly unhappy to feeling a kind of fake happiness all the time. It's awful. Nothing is getting better. Dunno what the next step is going to be at the next appointment.

(edited to be one step less melodramatic)

Mermaidpirate wrote:

Taking more of what I'm taking and I've gone from incredibly unhappy to feeling a kind of fake happiness all the time. It's awful. Nothing is getting better. Dunno what the next step is going to be at the next appointment.

(edited to be one step less melodramatic)

Fake happiness would be a step up from unhappy, and while it might feel disingenuous to you, on a very deep level, it might just be enough of a baseline to allow you to wade a little deeper into the weasel pool, and make some inroads there during therapy.

Be very open with your therapist about this change in outlook relevant to the increase in dosage. Let them know how it feels to you, why it is sitting uncomfortably with you, but also how it seems to be in the upward direction.

My chemicals put me in emotional coma of sorts. I could feign ignorance to the destructive compulsions and 'internal dialogue', and then be at full readiness for the therapy sessions. Maybe outlining the change to your therapist will give them insight into how to tweak what you have, so you're ready for that next bit.

Hope this turns out to be a good first step in a new direction for you. I know you've had some tough therapist experiences in the past. This one may have just found the right combination for you.

m0nk3yboy wrote:
Mermaidpirate wrote:

Taking more of what I'm taking and I've gone from incredibly unhappy to feeling a kind of fake happiness all the time. It's awful. Nothing is getting better. Dunno what the next step is going to be at the next appointment.

(edited to be one step less melodramatic)

Fake happiness would be a step up from unhappy, and while it might feel disingenuous to you, on a very deep level, it might just be enough of a baseline to allow you to wade a little deeper into the weasel pool, and make some inroads there during therapy.

Be very open with your therapist about this change in outlook relevant to the increase in dosage. Let them know how it feels to you, why it is sitting uncomfortably with you, but also how it seems to be in the upward direction.

My chemicals put me in emotional coma of sorts. I could feign ignorance to the destructive compulsions and 'internal dialogue', and then be at full readiness for the therapy sessions. Maybe outlining the change to your therapist will give them insight into how to tweak what you have, so you're ready for that next bit.

Hope this turns out to be a good first step in a new direction for you. I know you've had some tough therapist experiences in the past. This one may have just found the right combination for you.

Well put. It does take time for the higher dosage to filter through and affect things, and this may be the first step. You are used to feeling unhappy and so to me it makes sense that a new feeling of happiness might be something you distrust. That's how it felt to me when I increased my citalopram dosage in the fall. And for me the increase in dosage has worked. But do talk to your therapist.

My husband is in a better place, and is agreeing to talk to more neutral parties, perhaps even a therapist. Feeling rejected and left out by his mother and brothers is hurting him very deeply. This dynamic has gone on for so long and I hope he can find a good way through it.

concentric wrote:

You are used to feeling unhappy and so to me it makes sense that a new feeling of happiness might be something you distrust.

This is actually something that I've been wondering about since after my latest session it's becoming more and more inevitable that I'm going to be placed on some kind of medication. While I'm not opposed to it, I honestly have no idea how I'll be able to tell if the meds are working "properly" or not.

And if they are working:

Mermaidpirate wrote:

Taking more of what I'm taking and I've gone from incredibly unhappy to feeling a kind of fake happiness all the time.

I'm wondering if this would be the reaction I'd have. During my next session I made it a point to discuss exactly what I should be expecting and to take note of any negative side effects.

I'm with everyone else in saying definitely bring it up to your therapist at the next session. From what I've gathered from my own session, it's pretty crucial you be as open as you can be about how everything is affecting you. Then, they can tweak the dosage if need be.

CptDomano wrote:
concentric wrote:

You are used to feeling unhappy and so to me it makes sense that a new feeling of happiness might be something you distrust.

This is actually something that I've been wondering about since after my latest session it's becoming more and more inevitable that I'm going to be placed on some kind of medication. While I'm not opposed to it, I honestly have no idea how I'll be able to tell if the meds are working "properly" or not.

And if they are working:

Mermaidpirate wrote:

Taking more of what I'm taking and I've gone from incredibly unhappy to feeling a kind of fake happiness all the time.

I'm wondering if this would be the reaction I'd have. During my next session I made it a point to discuss exactly what I should be expecting and to take note of any negative side effects.

I'm with everyone else in saying definitely bring it up to your therapist at the next session. From what I've gathered from my own session, it's pretty crucial you be as open as you can be about how everything is affecting you. Then, they can tweak the dosage if need be.

Well, I'm not on depression medication, but basically, the way you tell if your medicine is working is threefold - 1) Your self-analysis. 2) Your medical professional's analysis. 3) Close family's analysis. The gestalt of the three (or more) points of view, particularly if journaled so that changes can be documented over time, is pretty good at getting at whether things are working, internally and externally.

CptDomano wrote:

While I'm not opposed to it, I honestly have no idea how I'll be able to tell if the meds are working "properly" or not.

Personal experience ahoy! When I first started taking antidepressants I had a few weeks where I always felt slightly dizzy and was yawning constantly. Apparently that's normal? Anyway, after my body adjusted to the chemical I didn't have any magic "I feel better!" moment. The only difference I could notice was that depressive thoughts that would normally get into my head, make a nice comfy nest, and lounge around in there for days would just pop in, say Hi and then head out within an hour or two. Basically I still felt all the same stuff, I was just able to shrug it off easier. Mind you, I'm on a low dose of an antidepressants so my effects were pretty minimal anyway. I've had some friends on much stronger stuff that just kind of flattened their mood out completely so that they said they couldn't feel the highs or the lows any more. Every drug behaves differently depending on the person.

Tanglebones wrote:

Well, I'm not on depression medication, but basically, the way you tell if your medicine is working is threefold - 1) Your self-analysis. 2) Your medical professional's analysis. 3) Close family's analysis. The gestalt of the three (or more) points of view, particularly if journaled so that changes can be documented over time, is pretty good at getting at whether things are working, internally and externally.

That's pretty solid advice right there. I guess it would be a subtle change as opposed to an automatic "f*ck Yeah!" flip of the switch.

Kehama wrote:

I've had some friends on much stronger stuff that just kind of flattened their mood out completely so that they said they couldn't feel the highs or the lows any more.

And that's the rub for me. While I may have moments of highs or lows, I'm generally in a very...passionless, I guess?...mood. Hence the reason why I wonder if I would really notice if the medication would be doing anything. Again though, I understand that the effects are different for everyone, and also the reason why I'd want to keep close tabs on everything.

EDIT: Sorry if this was hijacking away from MermaidPirate. It wasn't my intent--just curious what the whole medication process is like.

CptDomano wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Well, I'm not on depression medication, but basically, the way you tell if your medicine is working is threefold - 1) Your self-analysis. 2) Your medical professional's analysis. 3) Close family's analysis. The gestalt of the three (or more) points of view, particularly if journaled so that changes can be documented over time, is pretty good at getting at whether things are working, internally and externally.

That's pretty solid advice right there. I guess it would be a subtle change as opposed to an automatic "f*ck Yeah!" flip of the switch.

Kehama wrote:

I've had some friends on much stronger stuff that just kind of flattened their mood out completely so that they said they couldn't feel the highs or the lows any more.

And that's the rub for me. While I may have moments of highs or lows, I'm generally in a very...passionless, I guess?...mood. Hence the reason why I wonder if I would really notice if the medication would be doing anything. Again though, I understand that the effects are different for everyone, and also the reason why I'd want to keep close tabs on everything.

Honestly, I had a bit of a f*ck-yeah, flip of the switch reaction to Adderall. That said, it's definitely easier for my wife to see its effects than it is for me (except for the one day when I didn't take it, and all of a sudden I realized what a difference it was making).

My psychiatrist recommended the ADHD version of this book, which has a lot of really excellent step-by-step work, both for analysis and for changing underlying behaviors

Kehama wrote:

Anyway, after my body adjusted to the chemical I didn't have any magic "I feel better!" moment. The only difference I could notice was that depressive thoughts that would normally get into my head, make a nice comfy nest, and lounge around in there for days would just pop in, say Hi and then head out within an hour or two. Basically I still felt all the same stuff, I was just able to shrug it off easier. Mind you, I'm on a low dose of an antidepressants so my effects were pretty minimal anyway.

This was my experience with an anti-anxiety med. I tend to get hooked by my anxious thoughts, and meds and meditation have made letting them go far easier. The reason my dosage was upped was the greater amount of stress in my life. My psychiatrist mentioned that the stress might have gone above the threshold of help the lower dosage provided.

Edwin wrote:

I didn't realize it was that complicated. =\r

Good luck man, we're rooting for you.

Speaking from experience, it's always that complicated.

Kehama, at the end of the day, you need to focus less on whether or not you're presenting as the "bad guy" and more on protecting yourself. It's something I myself am having a hard time coming to terms with in my divorce.

General thoughts on meds: I'm currently on a fairly significant dosage of anti-depressants and mood stabilizers(150mg/day sertraline, 1000mg/day divalprovex). It *will* take time, and it's not something you're going to notice yourself. It's really important to have family and friends there to give you feedback, and discuss that with your prescriber.

I don't claim to have depression, I've never been diagnosed with it. I have my own theories about the connotations of the label "depression" (student of Psychology) and I strongly oppose mainstream use of meds for treatment (I do understand though I could never see things from another perspective, and they are necessary in some cases, I just have a lot of knowledge regarding willpower training and I'm never sure people get enough of that encouragement.)

CBT, ACT and other similar therapies are great, but I'm going to lay it out straight: without meds, people like me wouldn't stand a chance of becoming functional. As it is, it's taken me 3 years and 6 therapists to find a good fit, and nearly a year of time doing medication adjustments so that I'm mostly functional half the days out of the week.

Not enough willpower? So it's a personal failing? As a student of psychology, you should know better.

Thanks for your input guys.

I was feeling all the way down after I started on the increased dose, not before. My experience doesn't feel like what the rest of you have described. I wouldn't say it makes it easier to let go of anxious trains of thought, in fact, along with the fake happiness I also feel really stressed out practically all the time. 'Self analysis' of how it's affecting me doesn't seem like anything to me, because I can never be sure whether it's the meds that are affecting what's going on or all the other stuff happening in the week. I'd have to call up the me from Earth 2 that never switched the program and compare notes to know the answer to "how are they working for you?".

CptDomano, ymmv, with the first one I was on, I wasn't feeling the 'fake happiness' thing at all, and it was a similar type. It seems like it's all a bit of a crapshoot. People love telling you 'you just need to find the one that's right for you' over and over but that presupposes that there exists some kind of perfect match which sounds like wishful thinking to me. And I've lost patience with the process.

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret the decision to start on medication and it certainly got me through a rough time a while back, it's just not working out right now.

@Mermaidpirate - the ADHD version of the workbook I linked had quite a few more specific questions than just the vague 'analysis' that I posted in here - that said, it's designed to be used while talking to a professional, too. And one of its uses is to help determine when the medicine *isn't* working, too.

Thanks but I just got done with a similar book it did not sit well with me, to put it mildly.

Mermaidpirate wrote:

Thanks for your input guys.

I was feeling all the way down after I started on the increased dose, not before. My experience doesn't feel like what the rest of you have described. I wouldn't say it makes it easier to let go of anxious trains of thought, in fact, along with the fake happiness I also feel really stressed out practically all the time. 'Self analysis' of how it's affecting me doesn't seem like anything to me, because I can never be sure whether it's the meds that are affecting what's going on or all the other stuff happening in the week. I'd have to call up the me from Earth 2 that never switched the program and compare notes to know the answer to "how are they working for you?".

CptDomano, ymmv, with the first one I was on, I wasn't feeling the 'fake happiness' thing at all, and it was a similar type. It seems like it's all a bit of a crapshoot. People love telling you 'you just need to find the one that's right for you' over and over but that presupposes that there exists some kind of perfect match which sounds like wishful thinking to me. And I've lost patience with the process.

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret the decision to start on medication and it certainly got me through a rough time a while back, it's just not working out right now.

Lay it all out in session.

I had a full session just around 'no longer trusting my own judgement' when I was medicated. Is this me or is this the meds, will this still be me after the therapy, will this be me after the therapy when I get off the meds?

There is no 'one answer' to any of it. That's why this sucks. ((((Hugs))))

Mermaidpirate wrote:

Thanks for your input guys.

I was feeling all the way down after I started on the increased dose, not before. My experience doesn't feel like what the rest of you have described. I wouldn't say it makes it easier to let go of anxious trains of thought, in fact, along with the fake happiness I also feel really stressed out practically all the time. 'Self analysis' of how it's affecting me doesn't seem like anything to me, because I can never be sure whether it's the meds that are affecting what's going on or all the other stuff happening in the week. I'd have to call up the me from Earth 2 that never switched the program and compare notes to know the answer to "how are they working for you?".

CptDomano, ymmv, with the first one I was on, I wasn't feeling the 'fake happiness' thing at all, and it was a similar type. It seems like it's all a bit of a crapshoot. People love telling you 'you just need to find the one that's right for you' over and over but that presupposes that there exists some kind of perfect match which sounds like wishful thinking to me. And I've lost patience with the process.

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret the decision to start on medication and it certainly got me through a rough time a while back, it's just not working out right now.

After I tripled my dose of setraline over a few months, I felt a lot the same way. It took another 2-3 months for that to all level out. If you've given it a few months and still feel worse, see what other folks think. Even now I'll tell people that I feel worse compared to before meds, but there's not a person I know who would agree with me.

AnimeJ wrote:

Even now I'll tell people that I feel worse compared to before meds, but there's not a person I know who would agree with me.

That sounds rough. Hugs, man.

Spoiler:

Decided to remove this post as I realise I probably didn't explain myself very well (as is often the case with me!) and really never intended to sound nasty. I never wanted to hurt anyone.

I see I'm not the only person who writes and removes it.

You all are such a great bunch, and so supportive of all the problems we share here - whether perceived as big or small.

Just got a monster kick in the feels, unexpected too, but not surprising given my frame of mind these last three weeks and my brain weasels 'entertaining' suicidal thoughts of not continuing to live (semantics, but less active).

Guillermo del Toro's movie "Book of Life" was the culprit. Thought it would be a nice animated movie to watch with the family. Caught me completely off guard.

Two main triggers.

The first, without ruining the movie, was the main character's self redemption, then the second, the bit that tipped me over the edge, was a throw away line at the end of the movie.

Spoiler:

Anyone can die, but the challenge is choosing to live.

And I'm done again. Stupid feels

m0nk3yboy wrote:

Just got a monster kick in the feels, unexpected too, but not surprising given my frame of mind these last three weeks and my brain weasels 'entertaining' suicidal thoughts of not continuing to live (semantics, but less active).

Guillermo del Toro's movie "Book of Life" was the culprit. Thought it would be a nice animated movie to watch with the family. Caught me completely off guard.

Two main triggers.

The first, without ruining the movie, was the main character's self redemption, then the second, the bit that tipped me over the edge, was a throw away line at the end of the movie.

Spoiler:

Anyone can die, but the challenge is choosing to live.

And I'm done again. Stupid feels :cry:

Considered avoiding those films entirely? I know I do. I have a pretty good read on which films or TV shows will set me off and I simply don't watch them. I don't care if they're good and I'm "missing out" - I don't do melancholy for entertainment. I bloody live there, I don't need to go there for a holiday.

Maq wrote:
m0nk3yboy wrote:

Just got a monster kick in the feels, unexpected too, but not surprising given my frame of mind these last three weeks and my brain weasels 'entertaining' suicidal thoughts of not continuing to live (semantics, but less active).

Guillermo del Toro's movie "Book of Life" was the culprit. Thought it would be a nice animated movie to watch with the family. Caught me completely off guard.

Two main triggers.

The first, without ruining the movie, was the main character's self redemption, then the second, the bit that tipped me over the edge, was a throw away line at the end of the movie.

Spoiler:

Anyone can die, but the challenge is choosing to live.

And I'm done again. Stupid feels :cry:

Considered avoiding those films entirely? I know I do. I have a pretty good read on which films or TV shows will set me off and I simply don't watch them. I don't care if they're good and I'm "missing out" - I don't do melancholy for entertainment. I bloody live there, I don't need to go there for a holiday.

This didn't give me those vibes as much as some do, from the trailer. I understand it was set in the Mexican Afterlife, but the trailer looked like 'normal' kid fluff. I should have known there would be 'deeper interpretation' with GdT involved.

I got a little shaky, but I also realise I need to choose the more challenging option (referencing the spoiler). I crumbled, stumbled, but I feel lighter on recovery.

I realised I was vulnerable when I took another stab at explaining "where I'm at" with my wife. Why do I do this? She listens, gets impatient, then tries to shut me down with solutions I never asked for. Now that is a conversation outlet I need to remember to avoid...

m0nk3yboy wrote:

I realised I was vulnerable when I took another stab at explaining "where I'm at" with my wife. Why do I do this? She listens, gets impatient, then tries to shut me down with solutions I never asked for. Now that is a conversation outlet I need to remember to avoid...

I'm just a lurker here, but I want to ask you and anyone else who's willing to answer: what kind of communication does help you when depressed? My wife gets into bouts of depression and while I learned how to cope, I am still uncertain as to what does help her and what is useless. I don't give out advice, just listen, soothe and try to counter her negative views with positive examples.

I hope I am not too prying or rude, it's just that her depressions are getting more intense recently, mainly due to her being unemployed and you people here are such a tremendous help.