How to think about trans people

Well, use whatever terms for yourself work for you, certainly.

If I was trying to describe you to someone else, I'd say you're a non-binary trans person who is AMAB and presents on the masculine side but isn't a man. But... that doesn't get into the particular subtleties of your experiences, and we have no simple words for it.

The person I mentioned above--the one who uses he/him pronouns--calls himself a trans guy sometimes to avoid having to explain stuff to people. But, he doesn't identify as a man, he identifies as NB. It annoys him a lot that society (even trans society) wants to put him in that slot that he doesn't feel that he belongs to. And, even then he still gets a lot of crap from other trans people sometimes.

It's good to know how other people use the terms, and it's good to let everybody else define themselves as necessary. But never feel that you have to put yourself in categories based on that. That's especially hard on NB folks, because the words we use really don't cover the whole breadth of NB experiences very well.

Maybe in ten years we *will* have some slightly better words for things. Certainly, the language is in flux, and the ideas are in flux.

Hypatian wrote:

The person I mentioned above--the one who uses he/him pronouns--calls himself a trans guy sometimes to avoid having to explain stuff to people. But, he doesn't identify as a man, he identifies as NB. It annoys him a lot that society (even trans society) wants to put him in that slot that he doesn't feel that he belongs to. And, even then he still gets a lot of crap from other trans people sometimes.

Something I'm curious about this particular situation (and others like it, I suppose): is this more of a situation where the person is just flat out rejecting social gender roles, and doesn't feel as if they 'fit' into either 'box' that society has defined? Or does it have the accompanying gender dysphoria and other conditions that are typical in folks coming to terms with being trans/non-binary?

Apologies if this comes across as insensitive, this is a relatively new thing for me to talk about with folks, so still wrapping my head around what is and isn't proper etiquette.

Hypatian wrote:

It's good to know how other people use the terms, and it's good to let everybody else define themselves as necessary. But never feel that you have to put yourself in categories based on that. That's especially hard on NB folks, because the words we use really don't cover the whole breadth of NB experiences very well.

This is the bottom line, ultimately.

There's a variety of experiences, as anywhere. Remember that experience of gender dysphoria varies a lot—I actually talked with my therapist about this recently, because "gender dysphoria" as a diagnosis doesn't require anything typical of what would otherwise be called "dysphoria". You don't have to despise your situation to know who you are.

Some NB people feel akin to both binary genders. Some feel genderless. Some feel like they have a specific gender that isn't one of those in the binary. Some feel like their gender is different on a day-to-day basis.

I think the person I mentioned above feels that they have a specific gender that's neither man nor woman, but I'm not entirely sure.

So... no, it's not as simple as rejecting society's ideas of gender, any more than my choice to transition is about that. It's just about being who you are, and a need to reject society's ideas kind of comes along for free in some situations.

Thanks hyp. What you said is what I kind of figured - it's a lot of YMMV and 'it depends'/'everyone is different'.

Charlie Baker opposes expansion of transgender anti-discrimination rules, supports current law
(Shira Schoenberg, Masslive.com, 12-16-2014)

I suppose I might have been naive to expect that a GOP legislator would do something about protecting citizens in his state who are among the most exposed to violence for something as simple as using public accommodations. It takes a special sort of gall to take a meeting at Fenway and say so.

So I guess I get to either choose between doing damage to myself or risking violence and police interaction, which could lead to violence and or/sexual assault for, among other things, going to the damn bathroom.

I've been bouncing around the issue of family and friends not using your preferred name and I just keep coming back to a few possibilities.
A. They're afraid that if they use the correct name then they'll be verbally either approving of or accepting the change and they could no longer pretend it's "just a phase" or something like that. I think this is the most likely answer. Denial of reality is always a good answer for most people.
B. For parents, maybe the name they gave the person meant something to them and they don't want to let it go. A less likely option, admittedly. Unless the person was named after great-great so-and-so or a deceased sibling of the parent, something like that.
C. Despite all evidence to the contrary they simply don't believe gender identity issues are real and that it would be "silly" for them to use a name that wasn't bestowed on the person at birth. Seems to be more common among the older population.

I honestly don't know why other people get so hung up on what they call someone. If some guys can get away with changing their names to Sting, Bono or The Edge, surely someone can ask to be called a name that indicates another gender without people losing their minds about it.

A. sh*tty.
B. Honoring the dead versus your child = sh*tty.
C. Ignoring your child/family member's experiences = sh*tty.

The only one I could see is simply habit. Even this I would still consider sh*tty given the circumstances... but I could at least kind of sympathize with it. From the time I met my ex-wife until our divorce, she was Steph. I referred to her at all times as Steph, when it wasn't something like hun or sweetie or whatever. ONE time in that 5 years, I called her Stephanie... and it felt completely wrong even as I was saying it and my brain ground to a halt and stopped my though process to instead think "why did I just call her Stephanie?". I get that frisson, it's weird. If you've called someone something for as long as you've known them, that adjustment is certainly difficult.

But that doesn't mean it's not worth the effort for someone you love and/or care about.

Kehama wrote:

B. For parents, maybe the name they gave the person meant something to them and they don't want to let it go. A less likely option, admittedly. Unless the person was named after great-great so-and-so or a deceased sibling of the parent, something like that.

Demosthenes wrote:

B. Honoring the dead versus your child = sh*tty.

I would give a big bag of Canadian chocolate bars and a paperback novel to the first trans woman I met named Roberta E. Lee.

I think my main suspicion is a combination of A and C, not entirely consciously, and also Demosthenes's "habit". They're still in denial that this is who I am, they don't really accept that being trans is a real thing, and "well, we've always called you X" is a convenient rationalization for why they're having trouble, so that they don't have to look too closely at what they're thinking, or try very hard to get things right.

I do understand that it's hard for them, because I see them so rarely. But... *sigh* It's frustrating. It's really really frustrating. I could share more of my life with them. I could send photos, for example. But the one time I was really trying to do that I was rebuffed because they "weren't ready for that". And it was just like... OK, well, I'll just be over here changing more and more every day while you cling to your memories and imagination.

(Also: Everybody else in my life gets this right. Long-term friends who I haven't talked to in ten years get this right. It's *not that hard*. Grr.)

I think my sister at least *started* to really get it last year--we had a good sisterly chat one night, and it just felt *right*, and that was really nice. Since then, she's been less hesitant when talking to me, although it's not been completely friction-free. My mom... well, I still hope it will sink in eventually, that this is really who I am, that this is what I need to do. She seems to feel betrayed in some way that I don't really understand. I don't know if she realizes how important she is to me, and how much I've looked up to her over the years. My dad... *sigh* no idea if there's any hope there. He's just kind of gone off the deep end. We'll see.

*shrug* I'll do the best I can, they'll do the best they can, and we'll see how things work out. I can go away for a while if I really need to. I'm not going to let things pass, and I've told them that (even though I'm not sure they've actually processed it). And if they don't make a real effort, I'll do whatever I need to stay safe. I have my therapist's number if I need support. I'll be in touch with Hannah, I'm sure. And there's you fine folks.

I have 6 unused vacation days. If you want me to get in a car and drive across the country to rescue you I will damn well do it.

And I reiterate my offer from before: My family is Christmas thing in Northeast Ohio (Cleveland area). You are more than welcome to come!

Hyp, a couple of us are getting together in Akron on the 27th if you'd like to join us.

*laugh* I'll be in Spokane, Washington... So a bit far afield from Ohio, sorry. Thanks very much for the kind offers, though.

Hypatian wrote:

*laugh* I'll be in Spokane, Washington... So a bit far afield from Ohio, sorry. Thanks very much for the kind offers, though. :)

Well now you doubly have my sympathies and prayers then.

So get a last minute flight during the holidays to fly to Canton/Akron...

On second thought, alcohol is cheeper, and how most of us get through the holidays.

Attorney General Holder Directs Department to Include Gender Identity Under Sex Discrimination Employment Claims

Attorney General Holder announced today that the Department of Justice will take the position in litigation that the protection of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 extends to claims of discrimination based on an individual’s gender identity, including transgender status. Attorney General Holder informed all Department of Justice component heads and United States Attorneys in a memo that the department will no longer assert that Title VII’s prohibition against discrimination based on sex excludes discrimination based on gender identity per se, including transgender discrimination, reversing a previous Department of Justice position. Title VII makes it unlawful for employers to discriminate in the employment of an individual “because of such individual’s…sex,” among other protected characteristics.

“This important shift will ensure that the protections of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 are extended to those who suffer discrimination based on gender identity, including transgender status,” said Attorney General Holder. “This will help to foster fair and consistent treatment for all claimants. And it reaffirms the Justice Department’s commitment to protecting the civil rights of all Americans.”

The Attorney General’s memo is designed to foster consistent treatment of claimants throughout the government and reduce confusion. In addition to applying to the department’s civil obligations in defending federal interests, this memo clarifies the Civil Rights Division’s ability to file Title VII claims against state and local public employers on behalf of transgender individuals. The Department of Justice does not have authority to file suit against private employers.

That's actually a thing I hadn't been aware that the Justice Department was doing until that announcement the other day. I knew about the EEOC ruling, but not that the DoJ was contesting claims on that basis.

Positive stories from a small "city" up north.

Whitehorse Women’s Hockey League embraces transgender males

Chase Blodgett says the potential to lose his hockey community was a major source of stress during his gradual coming out as a transgender male.

“It was kind of a vulnerable process to come out to my team,” says the 29-year-old, who came out to his family this summer, then to his wider group of friends on Facebook in the fall.

The Whitehorse Women’s Hockey League has made it slightly easier with a new policy that says it welcomes any player who was born or identifies as a woman.

Tyops wrote:

Positive stories from a small "city" up north.

Whitehorse Women’s Hockey League embraces transgender males

Chase Blodgett says the potential to lose his hockey community was a major source of stress during his gradual coming out as a transgender male.

“It was kind of a vulnerable process to come out to my team,” says the 29-year-old, who came out to his family this summer, then to his wider group of friends on Facebook in the fall.

The Whitehorse Women’s Hockey League has made it slightly easier with a new policy that says it welcomes any player who was born or identifies as a woman.

The decision came from a well intentioned place, and that Chase is happy with it, because it means he can keep playing with his team, but that actually strikes me as pretty problematic. They are basically saying "That's okay, we still see you as a woman".

Well, given that they accept trans women as well I think it's more along the lines of how a number of women's colleges are going: accepting basically anybody who is marginalized in some way with respect to gender. So trans people and women.

It's a little awkward, but it makes sense when you think in terms of how people's experiences evolve. Asking people who realize they're trans men to leave seems unfortunate, as does forbidding trans women. And non-binary people, of course, need a place, too.

It's not simple and I do wonder how such policies will change and grow in the future: but I think the policies we're starting to see are a good start.

I sometimes have good ideas. Usually I have them too late.

Tomorrow's classifieds deadline for the Spokesman-Review had already passed by the time I came up with this:

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/3o41pwL.jpg)

Lol. Note that my family is not particularly religious. My sister and I were raised agnostic. So... I sadly doubt the religious angle would make a difference.

Anyway: Things have been going pretty well. Christmas dinner will be with dad. So... fingers crossed.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes...

Samantha Allen is still writing, just not on games. This one is on Rolling Stone

11 Ways 2014 Was the Biggest Year in Transgender History

Fair warning, it seems mostly okay to me, but given what is being discussed, some of it may be triggery. One in particular, is that despite doing pretty well for most of the article, they deadname someone (a musician who has been around a while).

One section in particular has me miffed.

#9 in the Article wrote:

Meanwhile in the world of online dating, OKCupid responded to mounting pressure to expand gender and sexuality options in November by rolling out nine new sexual orientation and 19 new gender choices.

No, they did not. In fact they made it worse, though granted that is based on my particular quirks. They used to list gender as "Guy" or "Girl", and looking for as "Girls who like guys", "Guys who like guys", "Guys and girls who like guys". Now gender is "Woman" or "Man". For a lot of people that probably just looks like a difference in formality. For me, guy is a term that works and man is a term that really ruffles my feathers. I was going to also say that they made orientation worse, but decided to poke around a bit, and it is more confusing that I remember but not worse. They list "Orientation" (Gay, Straight, or Bi) separately from "Looking for" (for Straight, you get "Straight women only", "Bi women only", "Women who like men" and "Everyone". Presumably everyone is for when you say you are looking for "New Friends"). So I guess if you expand those out for Gay and Bi orientations, that might be 9 total. But the gender choices are definitely not there.

To be fair, she does have another article (Expanded gender options won't fix OkCupid's binary problems) explaining why a bunch more gender choices might actually make things worse for binary trans people, and that support for non-binary folks is total garbage right now.

Transgender in Cuba

Leelah Alcorn suicide note sparks transgender discussion
(Brian Mains & Jason Law, WCPO Cincinnati, 2014-12-30)

Cincinnati City Council Member Chris Seelbach on Facebook wrote:

“Some very sad news to share,” Seelbach wrote. “Yesterday, a 17-year old committed suicide by jumping in front of a semi on I-71 near the South Lebanon exit.

It has come to light that this person likely committed suicide because she was transgender.

While Cincinnati led the country this past year as the first city in the mid-west to include transgender inclusive health benefits and we have included gender identity or expression as a protected class for many years....the truth is....it is still extremely difficult to be a transgender young person in this country.

We have to do better.

It's devastating whenever this happens. And it happens far far far too often.

Hypatian wrote:

Leelah Alcorn suicide note sparks transgender discussion
(Brian Mains & Jason Law, WCPO Cincinnati, 2014-12-30)

Cincinnati City Council Member Chris Seelbach on Facebook wrote:

“Some very sad news to share,” Seelbach wrote. “Yesterday, a 17-year old committed suicide by jumping in front of a semi on I-71 near the South Lebanon exit.

It has come to light that this person likely committed suicide because she was transgender.

While Cincinnati led the country this past year as the first city in the mid-west to include transgender inclusive health benefits and we have included gender identity or expression as a protected class for many years....the truth is....it is still extremely difficult to be a transgender young person in this country.

We have to do better.

It's devastating whenever this happens. And it happens far far far too often.

Local news coverage is really starting to piss me off. A lot of male pronoun usage and her new name consistently in quotes like it's a nickname.

Demosthenes wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

Leelah Alcorn suicide note sparks transgender discussion
(Brian Mains & Jason Law, WCPO Cincinnati, 2014-12-30)

Cincinnati City Council Member Chris Seelbach on Facebook wrote:

“Some very sad news to share,” Seelbach wrote. “Yesterday, a 17-year old committed suicide by jumping in front of a semi on I-71 near the South Lebanon exit.

It has come to light that this person likely committed suicide because she was transgender.

While Cincinnati led the country this past year as the first city in the mid-west to include transgender inclusive health benefits and we have included gender identity or expression as a protected class for many years....the truth is....it is still extremely difficult to be a transgender young person in this country.

We have to do better.

It's devastating whenever this happens. And it happens far far far too often.

Local news coverage is really starting to piss me off. A lot of male pronoun usage and her new name consistently in quotes like it's a nickname.

It doesn't help that quotes in the article Hyp posted, apparently from her best friend, used male pronouns. He said she came out to him, but if I understood right, he (the friend) was talking about her being attracted to men, and he didn't know she was trans until after she died.

And the opening quote from her mother in that article refer only to their son Joshua. It took reading through the better part of the article before I knew whether the parents were in error or the reporter was. The article alone seems ample evidence of what the teen was going through.

While a tragic event for sure, I was pleased to see that NBC Nightly News was using the proper pronouns when referring to Leelah in their report on it tonight.