RPG Renaissance - Ye Olde "Catche-Alle"

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2014 was a pretty stellar year for the RPG fan.

There were some incredible RPGs that managed to marry old school RPG-goodness with modern sensibilities in such a way that the genre is now whole hog in revival mode. A few short years ago, if you loved this genre you had to scratch the itch by playing the old classics, or settling for action/RPG hybrids. Yeah Wizardry 8 is still great, and there is no small amount of joy at being able to bust out Icewind Dale, and warm your soul by its... Er... Snowy tundras... But even though many classic titles tend to hold up, they haven't necessarily aged with optimal grace. Besides, this is a genre that still had plenty of room to grow and iterate. While publishers have shied away from the genre for the most part, and as such devs did as well. There were some notable exceptions, but the era of the RPG seemed to be well and truly over.

Until Kickstarter swooped in and changed the game.

There are some great and highly successful "new old school" RPGs already released in Shadowrun Returns, Wasteland 2, Divinity: Original Sin, and The Legend of Grimrock but there are also a whole heap of games coming up in 2015, including Pillars of Eternity from Obsidian and Torment: Tides of Numera from InXile as the obvious headliners.

This is a thread to share RPG goodness with other forum members who are fans of the genre. Did you kickstart something in a drunken haze, forget about it, and then get an update that made you proud of your drunken decision? Is there a gem that's flown under the radar that you want to share? Put it here. Spread the word.

Also, if you want to argue about which RPGs are superior to which others, debate the relative merits of RTwP vs TB in combat, or cry into your mug of ale about what Ultima 8 should have been, nobody will stop you.

Have at ye!

RPGs of the Rennaissance (Please feel free to nudge me if I'm missing something.)

Baldur's Gate Pre/Sequel

Dead State

Divinity: Original Sin

Dragon Age: Inquisition

Legends of Grimrock II

Lords of Xulima

Might and Magic X

Neoscavenger (no thread)

Pillars of Eternity

Serpent in the Staglands (No thread)

Shadowrun Returns

Torment: Tides of Numera

Wasteland 2

I've been interested in Lords of Xulima which was ignored at release but seems well loved by its small community of players.

Also, I kickstarted something called Serpent in the Stagland and the updates have been pretty promising. (Yes, this was the drunken kickstarter I alluded to above.)

I'm just going to file this thread under "Reasons I wish I played PC games" because nothing here is going to come out on a platform I do play on. But as a fan of old school PC RPGs, I'm really glad to see them getting some love these days.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm just going to file this thread under "Reasons I wish I played PC games" because nothing here is going to come out on a platform I do play on. But as a fan of old school PC RPGs, I'm really glad to see them getting some love these days.

ACTUALLY - I kickstarted a game called Liege that promises to release on consoles (at least PS4) and bring with a whole heap of old school RPG-y goodness.

EDIT - I liked being able to say the word "Actually" and not have to follow it with "its about".

I love western RPGs but these days it seems like I only have the mental room for tackling one a year. I was waiting for Wastelands 2 with some anticipation but played through Divinity: Original Sin first and that kind of did it for me for RPGs for now. Wastelands 2 is fun and everything about it is great but I don't care. I just have not felt like playing it for some time now. Same for DA3: I want to want to play it but I really don't care. Same for Pillars and Tides (sorry there can only be one Torment).

I feel terrible for feeling bleah about the genre I have always loved. Maybe this thread will shake me out of that.

I'm generally all about the turn-based, but so far, Divinity Original Sin, which I belatedly picked up just a few weeks ago, has failed to hook me so far for some reason. Part of the problem may be on my first few forays out of town, I've run into enemies 4-5 levels higher than me, and I'm not really sure where to go to find same-level enemies.

tboon wrote:

I love western RPGs but these days it seems like I only have the mental room for tackling one a year. I was waiting for Wastelands 2 with some anticipation but played through Divinity: Original Sin first and that kind of did it for me for RPGs for now. Wastelands 2 is fun and everything about it is great but I don't care. I just have not felt like playing it for some time now. Same for DA3: I want to want to play it but I really don't care. Same for Pillars and Tides (sorry there can only be one Torment).

I feel terrible for feeling bleah about the genre I have always loved. Maybe this thread will shake me out of that.

I hope so! I think there's a lot of stuff out there that's worthwhile, but I can absolutely see why it is a hard genre for anyone with an adult life. It is hard to devote so many hours into one game. I tend to play in trickles - an hour here or there - so I still haven't beat Wasteland yet. I'm loving every minute of it, but it makes me wish that there was an eigth day of the week and it was only for gaming.

WolverineJon wrote:

I'm generally all about the turn-based, but so far, Divinity Original Sin, which I belatedly picked up just a few weeks ago, has failed to hook me so far for some reason. Part of the problem may be on my first few forays out of town, I've run into enemies 4-5 levels higher than me, and I'm not really sure where to go to find same-level enemies.

D:OS has a pretty difficult early game. I think part of its issue is that you really have to do a lot of it in a very specific order (at least initially) until you break out of level 5. After that it becomes a lot more open feeling, but man is it hard to get started in that game.

I've said this in other threads, but worth repeating here - Your game is great! For those who haven't played Vigil yet, check it out!

Slowly optimizing a party of heroes over time in to a killer machine and testing them against more difficult and more creative enemies is my favorite thing. I also love deep character struggles, in depth plots, and reading. So yeah, crpgs are the game for me!

In the past I cut my teeth on Neverwinter Nights 1, but didn't finish a game until NWN2. Then I hit most of the SNES classic JRPGs before catching up with some BioWare stuff when I became a PC gamer again in 2009.

Divinity: Original Sin took my GOTY this year, even over DragonAge:Inquisition. It was mostly due to the combat. I don't really have a preference for pauses over strict turns, but the OG Sin combat seemed far deeper, and gave the player a lot more tools to experiment with.

In the future I'm most looking forward to Pillars of Eternity and The Witcher 3. Tides of Numera is also a must-play for me, but I haven't gotten hyped up for that one yet.

NWN1 was one of the first RPG's I managed to get through to the end. I still miss my ranger/rogue/shadowdancer combo. I was basically just one-shot sniping everything. I didn't even bother keeping party members around, I just solo'd it to the end.

Right now I just finished replaying KotOR and KotOR II. The only gripe I really have for the first was the lack of force powers/skills. The ones in the game are decent, but they fleshed out the system a lot better in the second one. KotOR II... might have been a good game if they hadn't rushed it out the door. You hit a point in the game, and it's like "This is the moment they must have run out of time in development." It's a mad dash to the ending, less exploration, more cutscenes, and life support packs everywhere. And the moment I defeated Darth Nihilus, I realized... that boss has no dialogue in the game. None, at all. I have no idea why he/she was hunting me, nothing substantial leading up. If that Sith Lord wasn't on the cover of the box, I'm sure they would have cut him/her out completely. You'd only really miss one boss fight in the game... and maybe a short cutscene here or there.

Eventually Dragon Age: Inquisition will go on sale and I'll be able to afford playing that one. The first was good, I wasn't thrilled with the overly religious tones of the second, and I'm worried the third will carry that a bit too far. But I like the gameplay, so I'll trudge through the game regardless.

The only other one I've been spending any time on lately would be Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. It's interesting, OK visuals, but a bit repetitive. A lot of run here, run there, grab this, fetch that type quests, and I got burned out on it given it's length. I'll get back to it eventually.

Divinity: OS looks interesting, and I might grab it and sink some time into it relatively soon.

Squee9 wrote:

Slowly optimizing a party of heroes over time in to a killer machine and testing them against more difficult and more creative enemies is my favorite thing. I also love deep character struggles, in depth plots, and reading. So yeah, crpgs are the game for me!

It is kind of amazing how a few well placed descriptions can supplement graphics. Wasteland 2 is easily on of the most atmospheric games this year, and a lot of it is text doing the heavy lifting, as the graphics are pretty basic.

I've never played any of the Neverwinter Nights games, or any of the D&D games that used third edition rules. How does it hold up next to, say, Baldur's Gate?

RPG Renaissance is OK, but I'm really holding out for RPG Fauvism.

Tanglebones wrote:

RPG Renaissance is OK, but I'm really holding out for RPG Fauvism.

The only type of RPGs I can't stand are RPG Futurists. Fascist jerks, the whole lot.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

RPG Renaissance is OK, but I'm really holding out for RPG Fauvism.

The only type of RPGs I can't stand are RPG Futurists. Fascist jerks, the whole lot.

Dragon Age: Inquisition definitely feels like RPG Rococo

I really liked NWN a lot - I played through it and multiple extra campaigns, including user mods. I have only done the very first part of NWN2. The clumsy camera in NWN2 turned many people, including me, off. I should give it another try.

I found NWN just as engaging as BG and BG2, but would like to have a larger party. Four seemed like such a downgrade compared to the party size of 6 in BG 1/2. And yet 4 is still the party size in the Dragon Age games and it feels just fine. It's been too long since I've played either BG or NWN to comment much on the combat, but I remember enjoying both, and being glad that I seemed to be more survivable in the early stretches of NWN than BG.

concentric wrote:

I really liked NWN a lot - I played through it and multiple extra campaigns, including user mods. I have only done the very first part of NWN2. The clumsy camera in NWN2 turned many people, including me, off. I should give it another try.

I found NWN just as engaging as BG and BG2, but would like to have a larger party. Four seemed like such a downgrade compared to the party size of 6 in BG 1/2. And yet 4 is still the party size in the Dragon Age games and it feels just fine. It's been too long since I've played either BG or NWN to comment much on the combat, but I remember enjoying both, and being glad that I seemed to be more survivable in the early stretches of NWN than BG.

I've tried NWN and NWN2 a number of times, and I'm one of those people who couldn't get past the camera/control scheme.

The modern series that I struggle with the most is The Legend of Grimrock. I can see why people love it, and I'm 100% onboard with most of what they're doing... But the real time, frantic clicking thing kills the old school buzz for me.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

The modern series that I struggle with the most is The Legend of Grimrock. I can see why people love it, and I'm 100% onboard with most of what they're doing... But the real time, frantic clicking thing kills the old school buzz for me.

If it weren't for the magic system in Grimrock 1.. but even then, I think the momentum-killer for me wasn't the combat, but one of the puzzles. That said, Dungeon Hack was one of my favorite games back in the day, so clearly I used to be more amenable to that style of RPG.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I've said this in other threads, but worth repeating here - Your game is great! For those who haven't played Vigil yet, check it out!

Thanks, I really appreciate it!

Tanglebones wrote:

RPG Renaissance is OK, but I'm really holding out for RPG Fauvism.

Thanks to graphics improvements we are well past the era of RPG Cubism.

NWN2 is great. I'd recommend jumping in with the Storm of Zehir expansion. It's open, a much shorter time investment than the full campaign, and the most polished. Additionally, you get to start by making four level 20 characters for your D&D 3.5ish party, so there's your first few hours of gameplay right there!

Additionally, that game had one of the strongest mod communities of the times. People were using it as a legit D&D session creator tool. These days there are plenty of high quality mods and usermade adventures to check out.

$20 on gog, go go!

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

The modern series that I struggle with the most is The Legend of Grimrock. I can see why people love it, and I'm 100% onboard with most of what they're doing... But the real time, frantic clicking thing kills the old school buzz for me.

Me too. Grimrock was a day 1 buy for me, and I'm glad I did because it helped Ubi find the courage to make Might & Magic X, but I don't like my action games getting their chocolate all mixed into my turn-based rpg peanut butter. They claimed Eye of the Beholder as inspiration, but that wasn't a frantic click fest like Grimrock.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I've never played any of the Neverwinter Nights games, or any of the D&D games that used third edition rules. How does it hold up next to, say, Baldur's Gate?

I despised NWN1 and its expansions. Felt so lackluster compared to BG1 and 2. On the other hand, NWN 2 felt much better, BUT it takes a good while to open up and become more interesting. Even so, it wasn't great. Its expansion 'Mask of the Betrayer,' on the other hand, is just utterly fantastic. It is a very unique experience.

ZaneRockfist wrote:
TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I've never played any of the Neverwinter Nights games, or any of the D&D games that used third edition rules. How does it hold up next to, say, Baldur's Gate?

I despised NWN1 and its expansions. Felt so lackluster compared to BG1 and 2. On the other hand, NWN 2 felt much better, BUT it takes a good while to open up and become more interesting. Even so, it wasn't great. Its expansion 'Mask of the Betrayer,' on the other hand, is just utterly fantastic. It is a very unique experience.

I really wish I could get past the game system, because I wanted to try Mask of the Betrayer - I know it was made as a spiritual successor to Planescape Torment, by many of the same people, but.. I just can't handle the NWN systems.

Tanglebones wrote:

I really wish I could get past the game system, because I wanted to try Mask of the Betrayer - I know it was made as a spiritual successor to Planescape Torment, by many of the same people, but.. I just can't handle the NWN systems.

It is very reminiscent of Planescape: Torment in terms of style and storytelling. It is a real shame you can't get past the NWN systems, but I understand. A friend of mine has the same issue. He just can't get over the camera.

Squee9 wrote:

NWN2 is great. I'd recommend jumping in with the Storm of Zehir expansion. It's open, a much shorter time investment than the full campaign, and the most polished. Additionally, you get to start by making four level 20 characters for your D&D 3.5ish party, so there's your first few hours of gameplay right there!

Additionally, that game had one of the strongest mod communities of the times. People were using it as a legit D&D session creator tool. These days there are plenty of high quality mods and usermade adventures to check out.

$20 on gog, go go!

Ain't that the truth.

I loved the gameplay of NWN 1 & 2, but the included "official" campaign of core NWN1 was utterly atrocious. Fortunately the community stepped up and made some awesome campaigns that were well worth playing!

I'm eager to check it out now. Shame it is Windows only... Man. I really need to get a non-Mac desktop at some juncture in my life.

In the Darklands thread lots of people had a "ooh, I used to play this for hours but the systems haven't aged well" comment. So my question is... What games have aged well and still hold up today?

For me, Wizardry 8 is definitely on that list. Sure, time has been mean to the graphics, but the game play and systems still work like a dream.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

In the Darklands thread lots of people had a "ooh, I used to play this for hours but the systems haven't aged well" comment. So my question is... What games have aged well and still hold up today?

For me, Wizardry 8 is definitely on that list. Sure, time has been mean to the graphics, but the game play and systems still work like a dream.

I'd say that Betrayal at Krondor's systems, music and story have aged well, even if the graphics haven't (the portraits were terrible, even when they were new!).

I want to say that Ultima VII's aged well, but I'm too rose-tinted to be unbiased about it.

Planescape Torment's still got one of the greatest stories/characters/music combinations in all of RPGdom, but the controls were pure jank, even when they were new.

Yeah, I felt like Torment's controls were wonky in their day... But there's no doubt that the story is great.

I'm also probably a little rose-tinted on it, but I'd agree with you on Ultima 7 and the expansion for it.

In fact, there's a nice thread between the two games - they both feature very evocative worlds filled with substantial, fascinating NPCs. A well written game with semi-intuitive systems is bound to weather time well.

I never actually played Betrayal At Krondor. I'm not entirely sure how it got by me! I shake my fist at you, younger me!

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

Yeah, I felt like Torment's controls were wonky in their day... But there's no doubt that the story is great.

I'm also probably a little rose-tinted on it, but I'd agree with you on Ultima 7 and the expansion for it.

In fact, there's a nice thread between the two games - they both feature very evocative worlds filled with substantial, fascinating NPCs. A well written game with semi-intuitive systems is bound to weather time well.

I never actually played Betrayal At Krondor. I'm not entirely sure how it got by me! I shake my fist at you, younger me!

I was pretty deep in the Raymond E. Feist fandom by the time it came out, so I was definitely its target audience.

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