Do Presidential Candidates talk to God?

Yonder wrote:
NormanTheIntern wrote:

IMAGE(http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/obama.jpg)

Almost Obama claiming that God literally spoke to him and directed him personally to run for President, and yet not that at all.

Not to mention the only reasons his 2008 campaign had to have a picture of him in front of a cross was because 20% of the country honestly thought he was a Muslim. Of course that doesn't include the folks who thought he was the anti-Christ.

EDIT: Aw, Demohausered. I bet he's really the anti-Christ and not Obama.

You guys are saying politicians portray themselves to speak to and appeal to their constituents.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

You guys are saying politicians portray themselves to speak to and appeal to their constituents.

And this means...?

NormanTheIntern wrote:

You guys are saying politicians portray themselves to speak to and appeal to their constituents.

Yes... And we're saying that we're less concerned by people that try to appeal to their constituents by saying "Look, I'm really a Christian! Honest! I promise I'm not a Muslim!" than people that say "I am a prophet of God. The Lord has literally spoken to me, with actual words, and given me a clear directive to lead this country according to his law."

Personally speaking, I'm like 75 trillion times more worried about the second guy/gal.

Yonder wrote:
NormanTheIntern wrote:

You guys are saying politicians portray themselves to speak to and appeal to their constituents.

Yes... And we're saying that we're less concerned by people that try to appeal to their constituents by saying "Look, I'm really a Christian! Honest! I promise I'm not a Muslim!" than people that say "I am a prophet of God. The Lord has literally spoken to me, with actual words, and given me a clear directive to lead this country according to his law."

Personally speaking, I'm like 75 trillion times more worried about the second guy/gal.

Pretty much this.

As for Cruz, while his father may have been the one SAYING it, Cruz did participate in the ritual... whether out of belief or a sense of familial obligation is impossible to say. But frankly I'm surprised he'd get within 100 miles of anything that's apparently about the redistribution the wealth.

Demosthenes wrote:

But frankly I'm surprised he'd get within 100 miles of anything that's apparently about the redistribution the wealth.

Because it's not the evil government stealing money from good, hardworking people and giving it to lazy people and minorities. It's god rewarding good Christians by giving them all the money of nasty sinners.

Because of course, god is all about the benjamins.

OG_slinger wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

But frankly I'm surprised he'd get within 100 miles of anything that's apparently about the redistribution the wealth.

Because it's not the evil government stealing money from good, hardworking people and giving it to lazy people and minorities. It's god rewarding good Christians by giving them all the money of nasty sinners.

This is a joke. I know that. But the idea that anyone read Christ's words and thought that helping the poor is bad and Christians getting money they don't need to build more elaborate churches or Christian theme parks or support legislation designed to hurt and belittle their fellow man while trashing the planet is good kind of makes me think the dude would be spinning in his grave... you know... if he hadn't already left it. Maybe he's spinning in Heaven and freaking people out up there.

Prosperity theology creeps me the f*ck out. :l

NormanTheIntern wrote:

You guys are saying politicians portray themselves to speak to and appeal to their constituents.

Yes, and crazy people assert that God talks to them and tells them what he wants.

Okay, this is like, the third time Norman has posted a scan of that pamphlet. And it's not even the original higher-rez version with the back panel included in the pic. And people keep reacting to it as if it were out of the blue. lol.

Yonder wrote:

Yes... And we're saying that we're less concerned by people that try to appeal to their constituents by saying "Look, I'm really a Christian! Honest! I promise I'm not a Muslim!" than people that say "I am a prophet of God. The Lord has literally spoken to me, with actual words, and given me a clear directive to lead this country according to his law."

I don't think you can read it in the scan I posted, but the small text is something like "I'm eager to do the Lord's work."

NormanTheIntern wrote:
Yonder wrote:

Yes... And we're saying that we're less concerned by people that try to appeal to their constituents by saying "Look, I'm really a Christian! Honest! I promise I'm not a Muslim!" than people that say "I am a prophet of God. The Lord has literally spoken to me, with actual words, and given me a clear directive to lead this country according to his law."

I don't think you can read it in the scan I posted, but the small text is something like "I'm eager to do the Lord's work."

Which is awesome and great until you drill down into the crazy that is them explaining how they know what the Lord's work is.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

I don't think you can read it in the scan I posted, but the small text is something like "I'm eager to do the Lord's work."

Here's a higher res version of the entire campaign flyer.

IMAGE(http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/files/2008/05/obama-front.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/files/2008/05/obama-back.jpg)

Nowhere on it is there remotely a claim that God personally spoke with Obama and told him to run.

You can compare that to what Herman Cain said: "I prayed and prayed and prayed. I’m a man of faith, I had to do a lot of praying for this one, more praying than I’d ever done before in my life. And when I finally realized that it was God saying that this is what I needed to do, I was like Moses. ‘You’ve got the wrong man, Lord. Are you sure?"

And Michele Bachmann:

CBS News[/url]]"I am a Christian, as is my husband. I became a Christian when I was 16 years old. I gave my heart to Jesus Christ," Bachmann told CBS' Bob Schieffer. "Since that time, I've been a person of prayer. And so when I pray, I pray believing that God will speak to me and give me an answer to that prayer.

"That's what a calling is," continued the Tea Party favorite. "If I pray, a calling means that I feel like I have a sense from God."

Bachmann says she asked God about running for political office.

"Did God tell you He wanted you to run for the Minnesota State Senate, or something like that?" Schieffer asked.

"I prayed about that, as well," Bachmann said. "And that's really what that means. It means that I have a sense of assurance about the direction I think that God is speaking into my heart that I should go."

And Rick Perry: "I’m not ready to tell you that I’m ready to announce that I’m in. But I’m getting more and more comfortable every day that this is what I’ve been called to do. This is what America needs.

Lest you think that Perry thought he was being "called" by something as mundane as rich, conservative donors or the will of the people, it was really Perry's involvement with several pastors of the New Apostolic Reformation, a movement that, much like Cruz's father, stresses the absolutely scary as sh*t dominionism.

Texas Observer[/url]]On September 28, 2009, at 1:40 p.m., God’s messengers visited Rick Perry.

On this day, the Lord’s messengers arrived in the form of two Texas pastors, Tom Schlueter of Arlington and Bob Long of San Marcos, who called on Perry in the governor’s office inside the state Capitol. Schlueter and Long both oversee small congregations, but they are more than just pastors. They consider themselves modern-day apostles and prophets, blessed with the same gifts as Old Testament prophets or New Testament apostles.

The pastors told Perry of God’s grand plan for Texas. A chain of powerful prophecies had proclaimed that Texas was “The Prophet State,” anointed by God to lead the United States into revival and Godly government. And the governor would have a special role.

The day before the meeting, Schlueter had received a prophetic message from Chuck Pierce, an influential prophet from Denton, Texas. God had apparently commanded Schlueter””through Pierce””to “pray by lifting the hand of the one I show you that is in the place of civil rule.”

Gov. Perry, it seemed.

Schlueter had prayed before his congregation: “Lord Jesus I bring to you today Gov. Perry. … I am just bringing you his hand and I pray Lord that he will grasp ahold of it. For if he does you will use him mightily.”

And grasp ahold the governor did. At the end of their meeting, Perry asked the two pastors to pray over him. As the pastors would later recount, the Lord spoke prophetically as Schlueter laid his hands on Perry, their heads bowed before a painting of the Battle of the Alamo. Schlueter “declared over [Perry] that there was a leadership role beyond Texas and that Texas had a role beyond what people understand,” Long later told his congregation.

So you have to wonder: Is Rick Perry God’s man for president?

So one one hand you have a campaign flyer from Obama with a quote on one side that talks about doing more than just praying while the backside stresses him doing just that as a community organizer (as well as a blatant "I accepted Jesus. See, I'm not a Muslim.").

And on the other hand you have multiple GOP candidates basically saying that god personally talked to them and told them to they needed to run for office. What's worse is that most of those GOP candidates have connections to Christian dominionism, which is a movement that literally says "that Christians alone are Biblically mandated to occupy all secular institutions until Christ returns."

http://www.newsweek.com/qa-what-bara...

I prayed on running for president. That's a big decision that had an immediate impact on my family—and that I knew, win or lose, would have an impact on the country. Had I run a miserable race, that would have had an impact on the country. Should I win, that carries with it enormous responsibilities. I've spent a lot of time in prayer on that.
One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

I'm still looking for that "god told me to run" soundbyte and am not seeing it.

Doubly so since the only reasons the media were specifically asking Obama about his faith in 2008 was that a shockingly large portion of Americans thought he was a Muslim (which only mattered because being a Muslim was perceived negatively).

Where you want to see Obama acting just like practically every GOP candidate who touted their religious mandate I see the Obama as the "people clinging to their guns and religion" guy just trying to get past a campaign issue that, quite frankly, shouldn't matter in the 21st century.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

http://www.newsweek.com/qa-what-bara...

I prayed on running for president. That's a big decision that had an immediate impact on my family—and that I knew, win or lose, would have an impact on the country. Had I run a miserable race, that would have had an impact on the country. Should I win, that carries with it enormous responsibilities. I've spent a lot of time in prayer on that.
What do you pray for?
Forgiveness for my sins and flaws, which are many, the protection of my family, and that I'm carrying out God's will, and not in a grandiose way, but simply that there is an alignment between my actions and what he would want. And then I find myself sometimes praying for people who need a lift, need a hand.

Probably for the best not to use an article that actually contradicts the point you're trying to make BEFORE it has a quote you can take out of context.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

http://www.newsweek.com/qa-what-bara...

I prayed on running for president. That's a big decision that had an immediate impact on my family—and that I knew, win or lose, would have an impact on the country. Had I run a miserable race, that would have had an impact on the country. Should I win, that carries with it enormous responsibilities. I've spent a lot of time in prayer on that.

That sounds like a very humble response. He didn't say he was anointed by God in fact he seems to look to prayer for help with a heavy burden he felt running would put on his shoulders.

I like him even more, thanks for the post!

NormanTheIntern wrote:

http://www.newsweek.com/qa-what-bara...

I prayed on running for president. That's a big decision that had an immediate impact on my family—and that I knew, win or lose, would have an impact on the country. Had I run a miserable race, that would have had an impact on the country. Should I win, that carries with it enormous responsibilities. I've spent a lot of time in prayer on that.

Which runs counter to the insane, hallucinatory, narcissistic, and delusion strain of Evangelical Christian thought that has been nicely illustrated in this thread.

Tanglebones wrote:
One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

Why won't this Lego piece and K'nex piece fit together like I want them to? STUPID TOYS! SMAAAAAAAAAAAAASH!

Tanglebones wrote:
One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

This piece comes to mind...

The Onion wrote:

Voice Of God Revealed To Be Cheney On Intercom.

WASHINGTON, DC—Telephone logs recorded by the National Security Agency and obtained by Congress as part of an ongoing investigation suggest that the vice president may have used the Oval Office intercom system to address President Bush at crucial moments, giving categorical directives in a voice the president believed to be that of God.
...

link

Norman your point that GOP members admit that invisible voices tell them what to do in order to appease their base is spot on. There's tons of forums out there (both religious and mental illness) that support people who hear voices. P&C is not typically one of those places. It was pretty easy to prove that Obama is not required to admit to doing what the voices tell him to do in order to appease his base.

(Apparently his base prefers lies about privacy and net neutrality... :))

I'm curious to see how many governors go for the nominations. Like I said in another thread, I'll be astonished if Walker doesn't run, and Snyder is a likely candidate as well.

And I actually like Snyder, if not for the pathological lying, methodical dismantling of education, union destruction, corporate fellatio, and super heavy tax on seniors. His gas tax is a good idea.

Seth wrote:

Norman your point that GOP members admit that invisible voices tell them what to do in order to appease their base is spot on. There's tons of forums out there (both religious and mental illness) that support people who hear voices. P&C is not typically one of those places. It was pretty easy to prove that Obama is not required to admit to doing what the voices tell him to do in order to appease his base.

(Apparently his base prefers lies about privacy and net neutrality... :))

I'm curious to see how many governors go for the nominations. Like I said in another thread, I'll be astonished if Walker doesn't run, and Snyder is a likely candidate as well.

And I actually like Snyder, if not for the pathological lying, methodical dismantling of education, union destruction, corporate fellatio, and super heavy tax on seniors. His gas tax is a good idea.

But his two cent titanium tax doesn't go far enough!

Reaper81 wrote:
Seth wrote:

Norman your point that GOP members admit that invisible voices tell them what to do in order to appease their base is spot on. There's tons of forums out there (both religious and mental illness) that support people who hear voices. P&C is not typically one of those places. It was pretty easy to prove that Obama is not required to admit to doing what the voices tell him to do in order to appease his base.

(Apparently his base prefers lies about privacy and net neutrality... :))

I'm curious to see how many governors go for the nominations. Like I said in another thread, I'll be astonished if Walker doesn't run, and Snyder is a likely candidate as well.

And I actually like Snyder, if not for the pathological lying, methodical dismantling of education, union destruction, corporate fellatio, and super heavy tax on seniors. His gas tax is a good idea.

But his two cent titanium tax doesn't go far enough!

But his opponent's 2 cent titanium tax does go too far though!

NormanTheIntern wrote:

http://www.newsweek.com/qa-what-bara...

I prayed on running for president. That's a big decision that had an immediate impact on my family—and that I knew, win or lose, would have an impact on the country. Had I run a miserable race, that would have had an impact on the country. Should I win, that carries with it enormous responsibilities. I've spent a lot of time in prayer on that.

But he didn't claim God told him to run.

There's a critical difference there, Norman. Why do you keep playing this game?

I'm sure this has been posted before, but here's a perfect example of why the whole "calling from God" thing is so scary to me:

Incredibly, President George W. Bush told French President Jacques Chirac in early 2003 that Iraq must be invaded to thwart Gog and Magog, the Bible's satanic agents of the Apocalypse.

Honest. This isn't a joke. The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God.

Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their "common faith" (Christianity) and told him: "Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East. . . . The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. . . . This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins."

This bizarre -- seemingly deranged -- episode happened while the White House was assembling its "coalition of the willing" to unleash the Iraq invasion. Chirac says he was boggled by Bush's call, and "wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs."

Chirac had to consult a theology professor because he did not understand the references Bush made; that's how the story got out several years after it happened...

gewy wrote:

I'm sure this has been posted before, but here's a perfect example of why the whole "calling from God" thing is so scary to me:

Honest. This isn't a joke. The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God.

IMAGE(http://cdn4.openculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/blues-brothers.jpeg)

You may have changed the title but this still seems like the best place to post this.

Congrats, America: Ben Carson Is Now Your 2016 GOP Frontrunner

Feel the Carsonmentum. Breathe it in. Embrace it. It's happening.

With "infallible" polling data in hand, The Huffington Post can declare celebrated neurosurgeon and conservative heartthrob Ben Carson as the frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination in 2016. At least that's according to a new CNN/ORC International poll released Tuesday, which shows Carson topping a stacked list of right-wing favorites and establishment picks alike -- including New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky and even Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas.

Yes, Carson falls 10 points behind Mitt Romney, who, despite endless prompting from former aides, has said he has no plans to run for the office for a third time. So, at least for the moment, Carson is your man. He has been coy about a 2016 run, telling NBC on Sunday that he is a "maybe." But an enthusiastic base and a whopping 40-minute ad promoting his bid for the nomination (which ended his contract as a contributor on Fox News) are some of the best signs he plans to jump into the race.

His conservative cred and courage to call out President Barack Obama have earned him bad boy status on the right, at least enough to carry the Fox News primary. If the 2012 GOP race is any indication, there's bound to be a plethora of rises and falls by extreme candidates with slim to no electability -- think Donald Trump or Rep. Michele Bachmann. Odds are good that Carson will have that honored distinction sooner or later, so why not make it sooner, America.