Blizzard's Overwatch Catch-All

krev82 wrote:

I imagine they'll limit to one of each per game as they do with Heroes?

They said the game is balanced for maximum of 2 same heroes on each team.
Although I have no idea how balancing would work in this game and all-Hanzo matches could be stupidly fun.

Farscry wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:

But seriously, go take a design class people, then none of this will seem like a surprise, at all.

Actually, I have, and if this were the result of an assignment to design a diverse fictional cast, my professor would've docked points for the women all having nearly the exact same body.

Oh wait, sorry, I wasn't supposed to undermine your snark. Oops!

That's just it though, they don't have nearly the same body. only ones close are Mercy and Widowmaker.
Arrow guy and Reaper and sword guy and cowboy guy seem to have similar builds and yet no one gives a f*ck.

It looks like you have to charge up your ultimate by getting kills (Widowmaker trailer), but I would figure just helping out should charge it up.

Looks like it could be fun. I didn't see a single individual thing that seemed new, and the art design feels really disparate. Sleek Portal-like futuristic, but also steam-punk-ish, and fantasy, and anime, and a bit of 40K just for sh*ts and giggles. It's a bit jarring to me.

But hey, the gameplay will be solid I'm sure, and it's not a super-twitchy, die-the-instant-you-take-fire military shooter! The focus on different kinds of mobility is neat too.

RolandofGilead wrote:
Farscry wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:

But seriously, go take a design class people, then none of this will seem like a surprise, at all.

Actually, I have, and if this were the result of an assignment to design a diverse fictional cast, my professor would've docked points for the women all having nearly the exact same body.

Oh wait, sorry, I wasn't supposed to undermine your snark. Oops!

That's just it though, they don't have nearly the same body. only ones close are Mercy and Widowmaker.
Arrow guy and Reaper and sword guy and cowboy guy seem to have similar builds and yet no one gives a f*ck.

Yeah, actually, they do have nearly the same bodies. If I get the free time and choose to waste it, maybe I'll do a copy/paste overlay of the women and scale them all to the same height to show it.

And yes, several of the guys do too, but there are at least some outliers. The closest thing to an outlier for the women is Tall Armor Babe With Bigger Chest, but she's not nearly as different from the other women as the female barbarian in Diablo 3 is from the others in D3.

Farscry wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:
Farscry wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:

But seriously, go take a design class people, then none of this will seem like a surprise, at all.

Actually, I have, and if this were the result of an assignment to design a diverse fictional cast, my professor would've docked points for the women all having nearly the exact same body.

Oh wait, sorry, I wasn't supposed to undermine your snark. Oops!

That's just it though, they don't have nearly the same body. only ones close are Mercy and Widowmaker.
Arrow guy and Reaper and sword guy and cowboy guy seem to have similar builds and yet no one gives a f*ck.

Yeah, actually, they do have nearly the same bodies. If I get the free time and choose to waste it, maybe I'll do a copy/paste overlay of the women and scale them all to the same height to show it.

("scaled..." bolded was mine) Well, if you want to invalidate your point before you make it, okay.

edit: You going to do just in-game or concept art too? I should add that given this is an animated medium, posture and movement make as big an impact as visual design.

RolandofGilead wrote:

("scaled..." bolded was mine) Well, if you want to invalidate your point before you make it, okay.

What? They can have different heights and still have extremely similar body types. No one is trying to argue that they are literally identical in every way.

DanyBoy wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:

("scaled..." bolded was mine) Well, if you want to invalidate your point before you make it, okay.

What? They can have different heights and still have extremely similar body types. No one is trying to argue that they are literally identical in every way.

So you're telling me that dwarf guy and Winston (gorilla) are totes similar?

RolandofGilead wrote:

So you're telling me that dwarf guy and Winston (gorilla) are totes similar?

I don't even understand what you're trying to argue anymore. It's like you're actively trying to misinterpret. It's absurd.

Yeah, I'll go find a different brick wall to talk to.

RolandofGilead wrote:
DanyBoy wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:

("scaled..." bolded was mine) Well, if you want to invalidate your point before you make it, okay.

What? They can have different heights and still have extremely similar body types. No one is trying to argue that they are literally identical in every way.

So you're telling me that dwarf guy and Winston (gorilla) are totes similar?

No. You're just entirely ignoring the point. The argument is that there's only body diversity for male characters. All the female characters have borderline identical ratios of hip to waist size, chest size, leg length, etc. Let's say you remove their armor, and then make them all flat black silhouettes. Could you tell any of the female characters apart?

The male characters? Big fat guy, ninja warrior dude, etc, could all be picked out from each other without the extra distinguishing details based purely on just the wide range of size in their frames.

There is none of that here for the women.

I will give it to them that there was a minute or so where I was keeping count of the number of female characters and at least initially was like, hey, the cast is somewhere between a third and half female. That's progress!

But then, yeah, if those characters were cars they'd all be the same model with different coats of paint.

Two steps forward, one step back, etc. Only in this case it's more like one step forward and half a step back.

DanyBoy wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:

So you're telling me that dwarf guy and Winston (gorilla) are totes similar?

I don't even understand what you're trying to argue anymore. It's like you're actively trying to misinterpret. It's absurd.

I'm saying height makes a difference; i.e. the black silhouette test above wouldn't be valid if they're resized. What's so complicated?

I would have totally loved if Torbjorn was a stocky female dwarf, just like my beloved WoW hunter. It wouldn't even be difficult to transition the name... Torbjörk!

RolandofGilead wrote:

I'm saying height makes a difference; i.e. the black silhouette test above wouldn't be valid if they're resized. What's so complicated?

I don't believe that changing the height alone is a meaningful difference.

I would also add again, posture and kinetics matter too, to me at least, when I take in character designs.

Her goggles control her butt. (via reddit)

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/oomyzMS.jpg)

BadKen wrote:

Her goggles control her butt. (via reddit)

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/oomyzMS.jpg)

WTF? I'm the first to admit I know next to nothing about 3D modelling and animation, but that can't be accidental, surely?

I do think they are making a step in the right direction, and we must bear in mind these aren't all the characters that will be available, but so far their talk of diversity is coming across as a little disingenuous.

The one thing I really like about the art style is also one of the biggest complaints I've seen. I like the completely distinct characters, it comes across as far more naturalistic than a cohesive art style. Where in the real world does everyone dress the same, outside of the military or a sports team?

MrDeVil909 wrote:

WTF? I'm the first to admit I know next to nothing about 3D modelling and animation, but that can't be accidental, surely?

It is. It appears that the transition between the two poses causes a coupla bones to expand or move outward during switch. You can see it affects her front abdomen area as well.
Like most shooter models, her top half is animated independently from her lower half (so running and aiming are independent), so presumably some bones from the torso are affecting the vertices when they shouldn't be.
Though the halves are animated independently, they still alter the same base mesh.

edit: I do wish they'd given her a normal skin tone and different colors though, if we're talking non-creativeness, she's purple
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...
and her skin is uh, nightelf/evil elf/dark elf, essentially, also see Asajj Ventress and all the Nightsisters. Yeah, basically she's a dark elf. Would have been awesome if she'd been like a Dranei or something.

RolandofGilead wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

WTF? I'm the first to admit I know next to nothing about 3D modelling and animation, but that can't be accidental, surely?

It is. It appears that the transition between the two poses causes a coupla bones to expand or move outward during switch. You can see it affects her front abdomen area as well.
Like most shooter models, her top half is animated independently from her lower half (so running and aiming are independent), so presumably some bones from the torso are affecting the vertices when they shouldn't be.
Though the halves are animated independently, they still alter the same base mesh.

Okay, that makes sense. Didn't know about the top/bottom half separation.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

WTF? I'm the first to admit I know next to nothing about 3D modelling and animation, but that can't be accidental, surely?

It is. It appears that the transition between the two poses causes a coupla bones to expand or move outward during switch. You can see it affects her front abdomen area as well.
Like most shooter models, her top half is animated independently from her lower half (so running and aiming are independent), so presumably some bones from the torso are affecting the vertices when they shouldn't be.
Though the halves are animated independently, they still alter the same base mesh.

Okay, that makes sense. Didn't know about the top/bottom half separation.

It's a matter of balance. Visor moves forward, butt moves backwards to compensate

Farscry wrote:

...if this were the result of an assignment to design a diverse fictional cast, my professor would've docked points for the women all having nearly the exact same body.

THANK YOU.
I rambled a bit about that on my tumblr, too.

RolandofGilead wrote:
DanyBoy wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:

So you're telling me that dwarf guy and Winston (gorilla) are totes similar?

I don't even understand what you're trying to argue anymore. It's like you're actively trying to misinterpret. It's absurd.

I'm saying height makes a difference; i.e. the black silhouette test above wouldn't be valid if they're resized. What's so complicated?

Height has very little to do with body proportion when the actual height difference is so relatively small. If you can't understand why some ladies would like to play a woman who looks real or even fantastical, but also doesn't look like varying grades of super models I'm not sure what else there is to talk about here.

I want to know where the cyber cowboy dude was in the game play and cinematic trailers? He is my favorite of the bunch, but he wasn't even shown. Hanzo looks like a good second option, and I'm glad bows have made such headway in video games.

BadKen wrote:

Her goggles control her butt. (via reddit)

Go-Go-Gadget Butt!

ZaneRockfist wrote:
WizardM0de wrote:

They just checked the MOBA box with Heroes of the Storm, now they're checking the F2P shooter box off. Do something brilliant, Blizzard.

I wouldn't expect Blizzard to do something brilliant ever again. They have made it very clear that they are only interested in iterating on what others have done before them or what they have already done. They play it as safe as possible.

For the most part I agree, though Hearthstone was a good blend of established genre with excellent, smart changes. I'm willing to give Blizz some patience and see if they manage to do the same with Overwatch, but for the most part I agree with you here. Blizzard has established itself as a huge production company with massive resources - and one of the ways a company in that position sticks around is by producing well-funded but safe versions of things that already work.

Amoebic wrote:
Farscry wrote:

...if this were the result of an assignment to design a diverse fictional cast, my professor would've docked points for the women all having nearly the exact same body.

THANK YOU.
I rambled a bit about that on my tumblr, too.

Nice blog post; like you wrote, I also really like the classic GI Joe-ish feel to the cinematic and style, and the way that Blizz has made this more all-ages appealing without talking down to kids in the process.

I'm not quite sold on this game yet. I'll keep an eye on it, but I'm definitely not in a competitive multiplayer shooter phase right now, so this is really not something that interests me currently. However, I think it's good to see Blizzard attempting a new IP and trying their hand at a genre they have little experience with.

Amoebic wrote:

I rambled a bit about that on my tumblr, too.

Good stuff.

From the Polygon article that was linked earlier:

Chris Metzen wrote:

"We've heard [from] our female employees and ... even my daughter tools me out about it," he said. "We were looking at old Warcraft stuff on YouTube, a cinematic ... and my daughter is like, 'Why are they all in swimsuits?' And I'm like 'Ugh, I don't know, honey.'

"I think we're clearly in an age where gaming is for everybody," he continued. "We build games for everybody. We want everyone to come and play. Increasingly, people want to feel represented, from all walks of life, boys and girls, everybody. We feel indebted to do our best to honor that. There's a lot of room for growth, but specifically with Overwatch, over the past year we've been very cognizant of ... trying not to over-sexualize the female characters. I don't know that we've over-sexualized the male characters. But it's something that we're very sensitive to."

So I think their hearts are in the right place, maybe? I think the designs are definitely on the lazy side of the spectrum but it's good to see them at least giving more consideration to their characters after RPS's interview with Dustin Browder nearly a year ago. So baby steps I guess.

shoptroll wrote:

I'm not quite sold on this game yet. I'll keep an eye on it, but I'm definitely not in a competitive multiplayer shooter phase right now, so this is really not something that interests me currently. However, I think it's good to see Blizzard attempting a new IP and trying their hand at a genre they have little experience with.

Amoebic wrote:

I rambled a bit about that on my tumblr, too.

Good stuff.

From the Polygon article that was linked earlier:

Chris Metzen wrote:

"We've heard [from] our female employees and ... even my daughter tools me out about it," he said. "We were looking at old Warcraft stuff on YouTube, a cinematic ... and my daughter is like, 'Why are they all in swimsuits?' And I'm like 'Ugh, I don't know, honey.'

"I think we're clearly in an age where gaming is for everybody," he continued. "We build games for everybody. We want everyone to come and play. Increasingly, people want to feel represented, from all walks of life, boys and girls, everybody. We feel indebted to do our best to honor that. There's a lot of room for growth, but specifically with Overwatch, over the past year we've been very cognizant of ... trying not to over-sexualize the female characters. I don't know that we've over-sexualized the male characters. But it's something that we're very sensitive to."

So I think their hearts are in the right place, maybe? I think the designs are definitely on the lazy side of the spectrum but it's good to see them at least giving more consideration to their characters after RPS's interview with Dustin Browder nearly a year ago. So baby steps I guess.

Metzen actually also said somewhere that they could "still do better" or something along those lines. So they're at least acknowledging that Overwatch still isn't quite there.

I wonder how progression is going to work in this game. There's almost certain to be some, but the clips we've seen doesn't provide any glimpse. Will there be loot? Limited time power-ups? New ability unlocks or customizations? Has anyone heard?

Also curious how quickly they'll be getting out new characters. Hearthstone kinda lost me because the first big update took far too long. Hopefully Blizzard will move more quickly on Overwatch now that Hearthstone has proven that "small games" can be a big hit. It'd be a great opportunity to rectify the diversity issues too.