Torment: Tides of Numenera Catch-All

Oblivion scaling was so bad that it made me wonder if whoever designed it was going through some massive existential crisis where they were wrestling with the idea that nothing matters and no accomplishment is ever real. Poor designer. Hope whoever they are, they've found a way to have meaning in their life.

TheGameguru wrote:
complexmath wrote:

I'd say that's more an issue of game design, since a good RPG shouldn't have any trivial encounters. Certainly not ones that take more than a few rounds to complete anyway.

Personal taste then to what defines "good" since I tend to favor RPG's that eventually allow me to faceroll earlier areas so I feel "more powerful".. RPG's that auto-scale all the content arent usually my cup of tea. (looking at you Oblivion)

I'm thinking of story-driven RPGs, which really shouldn't have any fights that aren't motivated by the storytelling. There, once an area is cleared it pretty much stays cleared. For something more action-oriented (including the Icewind Dale games), I'm inclined to agree that they work better with a realtime engine behind them.

I hate scaling in general, to the point where I won't even increase game difficulty if all the switch does is increase monster HP and damage output. I want a reasonable number of smart enemies, not a larger number of dumb ones, or even just ones that soak more damage. Then the game ends up being tedious more than difficult.

I suspect that, even if they think turn-based is better, they wanted to take the pulse of the crowd in order to make sure that it's not an overwhelmingly unpopular choice with their funding player base.

complexmath wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
complexmath wrote:

I'd say that's more an issue of game design, since a good RPG shouldn't have any trivial encounters. Certainly not ones that take more than a few rounds to complete anyway.

Personal taste then to what defines "good" since I tend to favor RPG's that eventually allow me to faceroll earlier areas so I feel "more powerful".. RPG's that auto-scale all the content arent usually my cup of tea. (looking at you Oblivion)

I'm thinking of story-driven RPGs, which really shouldn't have any fights that aren't motivated by the storytelling. There, once an area is cleared it pretty much stays cleared. For something more action-oriented (including the Icewind Dale games), I'm inclined to agree that they work better with a realtime engine behind them.

I hate scaling in general, to the point where I won't even increase game difficulty if all the switch does is increase monster HP and damage output. I want a reasonable number of smart enemies, not a larger number of dumb ones, or even just ones that soak more damage. Then the game ends up being tedious more than difficult.

That makes total sense.. For me the Baldurs gate Real Time with Pause was my favorite of all CRPG systems.. give me that and I'm golden.

Colin McComb's twitter is pretty telling: https://twitter.com/ColinMcComb

He says they started off "agnostic" as to what kind of system they wanted, but despite all coming from real time with pause backgrounds they began to really like what they were seeing in turn based.

I think MoonDragon is right - they probably are leaning turn based but wanted to take the temperature, since the "original" was real time with pause.

I don't care that strongly either way, but it seems very silly to me to ever do turn-based, because real time with good pause triggers works exactly the same way.... but you can fast forward. You're not stuck with nextnextnextnextnext all the darn time.

It's an artifact from pen and paper games, really.

Malor wrote:

I don't care that strongly either way, but it seems very silly to me to ever do turn-based, because real time with good pause triggers works exactly the same way

It really doesn't Since actions happen simultaneously in realtime games, even with pause, certain things like explicit reactions and interrupts don't work very well. Some movement options are problematic as well, like Overrun, because they require the game state to be frozen while the movement option is chosen and executed.

Also, realtime games can only ever make pausing an option. They can't actually expect or require for it to happen. So there's no way to build combat mechanics around it. At best it's just a way to slow down combat so the player has time to see what's going on and issue different orders.

But a lot of this really comes down to the system being used. A D&D-based game really benefits from a turn-based system because D&D itself is turn-based. But if this game will be using a different system then it might not have all of the nuanced turn-based rules of D&D and so being turn-based may not actually provide any benefit.

They can't actually expect or require for it to happen.

Well, if you weren't pausing the Infinity Engine (Baldur's Gate et al) games very frequently, you were going to get your ass kicked. Of course, in the original Torment, you were *supposed* to get your ass kicked.

Honestly, I'm good either way, and I'll enjoy the game, whichever they choose. But pausable real time (edit: with sufficiently granular auto-pause options) can do anything turn-based can do, plus things that it can't.

Malor wrote:

But pausable real time (edit: with sufficiently granular auto-pause options) can do anything turn-based can do, plus things that it can't.

That's simply just not true. Turn Based has a number of things it can do that RtwP can't, just like RtwP can do a number of things that Turn Based can't. They are entirely different animals. The share some fundamentals, but they behave differently and each bring advantages and disadvantages, pending on your play style, to the table.

Honestly, I like both, and I think there are games suited to each. But let's not pretend one is an "evolution" of the other. I enjoyed the combat in Balur's Gate. I also enjoyed it in XCOM, in an entirely different way. Overall, I tend to prefer Turn Based because I find real time with pause occasionally frustrating and I don't mind a slightly slower combat pace, especially for story based RPGs.

Only game I've played that had both, and the option to decide which to use, was Fallout Tactics, the red headed stepchild of the Fallout series.

First gameplay trailer

And the official site is back up and they asked all backers to log in and confirm their info, so it looks like it is getting close.

Wasteland 2 this week and Numenera soon? Can't wait.

Damn, I had no idea this was already looking that good. I've been so focused on WL2 I basically did a 'pledge and forget' for Torment. It looks flipping amazing.

That looks exactly what I imagined when I hit that pledge button.

My first double post in years. Fun while it lasted.

I'm all logged in, ready to rock.

I had to contact customer support because my inXile account(?) didn't seem to be functioning at first, but we're all sorted now.

I was raving about this on Twitter this morning. It looks freaking amazing and I can't wait to play it.

It's still over a year from release, right?

If I was that one NPC dude, I probably would've been a bit more leery about walking up to the giant mouth.

Their new stretch goal involves expanding the area in that video, so walking through more bowel-like things, entering more anus-like doorways, interacting with more ahem... orifices with teeth.

Can I get a different stretch goal please?!

polypusher wrote:

Their new stretch goal involves expanding the area in that video, so walking through more bowel-like things, entering more anus-like doorways, interacting with more ahem... orifices with teeth.

Can I get a different stretch goal please?!

... stretch.. bowels.. anus.. *brain esplode*

Oh, man, that looks incredible.

Do want.

Tanglebones wrote:

... stretch.. bowels.. anus.. *brain esplode*

Malor wrote:

Oh, man, that looks incredible.

Concave wrote:

Do want.

I'm going to pretend that this exact convo happened IRL and I overheard it from an adjacent room.

tanstaafl wrote:

Wasteland 2 this week and Numenera soon? Can't wait.

I don't think it's that soon. They are still prototyping and fleshing out the writing. It's at least a year, if not more, away from release.

MoonDragon wrote:
tanstaafl wrote:

Wasteland 2 this week and Numenera soon? Can't wait.

I don't think it's that soon. They are still prototyping and fleshing out the writing. It's at least a year, if not more, away from release.

Pillars of Eternity, on the other hand..

polypusher wrote:

Their new stretch goal involves expanding the area in that video, so walking through more bowel-like things, entering more anus-like doorways, interacting with more ahem... orifices with teeth.

Can I get a different stretch goal please?!

For someone who ushers in polyps, I would have figured you would have wanted double the stretch goal worth of it!

MoonDragon wrote:
tanstaafl wrote:

Wasteland 2 this week and Numenera soon? Can't wait.

I don't think it's that soon. They are still prototyping and fleshing out the writing. It's at least a year, if not more, away from release.

DON'T SHATTER MY DREAMS!

Question: Is this in any way connected to the original Torment game? I've not played it in a long time, so I'm wondering if I should replay it to catch up on backstory.