Ferguson, Missouri

I tasked a racist friend of mine with asking 5 black male friends if they have ever been unjustly harassed by police. I added the corollary that if he didn't have 5 black male friends he could ask that question, that he could very well be part of the problem.

He has since stopped talking to me.

Good point, Paleo. I will have to remember that tactic when I inevitably have to listen to thinly veiled racist bullsh*t from my family at Thanksgiving.

Farscry wrote:

Good point, Paleo. I will have to remember that tactic when I inevitably have to listen to thinly veiled racist bullsh*t from my family at Thanksgiving.

I have a friend who, among his accomplishments include being a scholarship student to prep school and college, graduating as one of three African Americans with a degree in engineering from the University of Maryland in his class, obtaining a master's degree, getting a juris doctorate, and being appointed a Federal judge. He has never done anything worthy of criminal suspicion. Despite all of this, he has repeatedly been harassed by law enforcement.

In fairness, he is black.

Paleocon wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Good point, Paleo. I will have to remember that tactic when I inevitably have to listen to thinly veiled racist bullsh*t from my family at Thanksgiving.

I have a friend who, among his accomplishments include being a scholarship student to prep school and college, graduating as one of three African Americans with a degree in engineering from the University of Maryland in his class, obtaining a master's degree, getting a juris doctorate, and being appointed a Federal judge. He has never done anything worthy of criminal suspicion. Despite all of this, he has repeatedly been harassed by law enforcement.

In fairness, he is black.

I think Eric Holder's statements lately drive this point home pretty well.

SixteenBlue wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Good point, Paleo. I will have to remember that tactic when I inevitably have to listen to thinly veiled racist bullsh*t from my family at Thanksgiving.

I have a friend who, among his accomplishments include being a scholarship student to prep school and college, graduating as one of three African Americans with a degree in engineering from the University of Maryland in his class, obtaining a master's degree, getting a juris doctorate, and being appointed a Federal judge. He has never done anything worthy of criminal suspicion. Despite all of this, he has repeatedly been harassed by law enforcement.

In fairness, he is black.

I think Eric Holder's statements lately drive this point home pretty well.

What were those?

Looked at the highest donors on the gofundme site:

$1,070
Maryland FOP Lodge 70
2 days ago
MD FOP Lodge 70 supports our brothers and sisters in Missouri. Please support them and your local law enforcement officers!

Holy. f*cking. sh*t.

Yonder wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Good point, Paleo. I will have to remember that tactic when I inevitably have to listen to thinly veiled racist bullsh*t from my family at Thanksgiving.

I have a friend who, among his accomplishments include being a scholarship student to prep school and college, graduating as one of three African Americans with a degree in engineering from the University of Maryland in his class, obtaining a master's degree, getting a juris doctorate, and being appointed a Federal judge. He has never done anything worthy of criminal suspicion. Despite all of this, he has repeatedly been harassed by law enforcement.

In fairness, he is black.

I think Eric Holder's statements lately drive this point home pretty well.

What were those?

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/0...

I understand that mistrust. I am the attorney general of the United States. But I am also a black man
Holder also recalled how he and his cousin were stopped in the Georgetown neighborhood of Washington, D.C., while heading to a movie, and his cousin started “mouthing off.”
“I’m like, ‘This is not where we want to go. Keep quiet.’ I’m angry and upset. We negotiate the whole thing and we walk to our movie,” the attorney general said. “At the time that he stopped me, I was a federal prosecutor. I wasn’t a kid. I was a federal prosecutor. I worked at the United States Department of Justice. So I’ve confronted this myself.”
Yonder wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Good point, Paleo. I will have to remember that tactic when I inevitably have to listen to thinly veiled racist bullsh*t from my family at Thanksgiving.

I have a friend who, among his accomplishments include being a scholarship student to prep school and college, graduating as one of three African Americans with a degree in engineering from the University of Maryland in his class, obtaining a master's degree, getting a juris doctorate, and being appointed a Federal judge. He has never done anything worthy of criminal suspicion. Despite all of this, he has repeatedly been harassed by law enforcement.

In fairness, he is black.

I think Eric Holder's statements lately drive this point home pretty well.

What were those?

Edit: Greghausered

The fundraiser page has all the classic markings of a 4chan troll campaign. If you're not familiar with those, go google end Father's Day and white women can't be raped.

I would also like to note that my friend the federal judge was once nearly arrested while checking in on his rental property after having evicted someone for non-payment of rent. The police were, apparently, less than fully receptive to the idea of an African American landlord.

Paleocon wrote:

I tasked a racist friend of mine with asking 5 black male friends if they have ever been unjustly harassed by police. I added the corollary that if he didn't have 5 black male friends he could ask that question, that he could very well be part of the problem.

I don't have 5 black friends. I live in an extremely white area, my work is almost 100% white, and I don't do a lot of hobby-type stuff to expose myself to new people. My best friend is Chinese and his wife is Indian, one of my work friends is Filipino, and one of my oldest boy's friends is... Somali, I think; that's the extent of my exposure to un-caucasian. I expect that I would have black (or any non-white flavour, really) friends if there were any around, but there aren't.

I don't think that makes me "part of the problem".

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I tasked a racist friend of mine with asking 5 black male friends if they have ever been unjustly harassed by police. I added the corollary that if he didn't have 5 black male friends he could ask that question, that he could very well be part of the problem.

I don't have 5 black friends. I live in an extremely white area, my work is almost 100% white, and I don't do a lot of hobby-type stuff to expose myself to new people. My best friend is Chinese and his wife is Indian, one of my work friends is Filipino, and one of my oldest boy's friends is... Somali, I think; that's the extent of my exposure to un-caucasian. I expect that I would have black (or any non-white flavour, really) friends if there were any around, but there aren't.

I don't think that makes me "part of the problem".

Oh Chumpy, so racist. Let us heal you.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

I live in an extremely white area, my work is almost 100% white, and I don't do a lot of hobby-type stuff to expose myself to new people.

Yeah, I think I MAY have met 5 black people in total. Edmonton is so white you can probably see it from space.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I tasked a racist friend of mine with asking 5 black male friends if they have ever been unjustly harassed by police. I added the corollary that if he didn't have 5 black male friends he could ask that question, that he could very well be part of the problem.

I don't have 5 black friends. I live in an extremely white area, my work is almost 100% white, and I don't do a lot of hobby-type stuff to expose myself to new people. My best friend is Chinese and his wife is Indian, one of my work friends is Filipino, and one of my oldest boy's friends is... Somali, I think; that's the extent of my exposure to un-caucasian. I expect that I would have black (or any non-white flavour, really) friends if there were any around, but there aren't.

I don't think that makes me "part of the problem".

I live in a very white area (Iowa is not exactly a diverse population for the most part), which I do think makes me part of the problem. It requires me to make an actual effort to be a part of the solution, whether through raising awareness, being a part of letter-writing campaigns, donating money to fund organizations fighting against institutionalized discrimination, etc.

Thanks for posting that, Farscry. We just had four examples (including mine and Farscry's) that were pretty clearly part of the problem, with a 50% denial rate. It's this tendency among people of my race to take things personally that causes so much of these issues.

The White Male Christian Persecution complex rings heavy even when only one or two of those indicators are present.

Seth wrote:

Thanks for posting that, Farscry. We just had four examples (including mine and Farscry's) that were pretty clearly part of the problem, with a 50% denial rate. It's this tendency among people of my race to take things personally that causes so much of these issues.

The White Male Christian Persecution complex rings heavy even when only one or two of those indicators are present.

Eh? I'm not following you here. I don't feel persecuted if that's what you are implying. I'd be fine with more black people living in Edmonton, I just haven't had the opportunity to meet many.

Seth wrote:

We just had four examples (including mine and Farscry's) that were pretty clearly part of the problem, with a 50% denial rate.

Yeah, you're gonna have to explain that one pretty quick, Chief.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

Looked at the highest donors on the gofundme site:

$1,070
Maryland FOP Lodge 70
2 days ago
MD FOP Lodge 70 supports our brothers and sisters in Missouri. Please support them and your local law enforcement officers!

Holy. f*cking. sh*t.

Eh, it makes sense. The Fraternal Order folks tend to throw money at any cop who gets large negative attention. A grand really isn't that much to them.

garion333 wrote:
Valmorian wrote:
Seth wrote:

Thanks for posting that, Farscry. We just had four examples (including mine and Farscry's) that were pretty clearly part of the problem, with a 50% denial rate. It's this tendency among people of my race to take things personally that causes so much of these issues.

The White Male Christian Persecution complex rings heavy even when only one or two of those indicators are present.

Eh? I'm not following you here. I don't feel persecuted if that's what you are implying. I'd be fine with more black people living in Edmonton, I just haven't had the opportunity to meet many.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Seth wrote:

We just had four examples (including mine and Farscry's) that were pretty clearly part of the problem, with a 50% denial rate.

Yeah, you're gonna have to explain that one pretty quick, Chief.

This may help: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Persecu...

No, I understand what he means by the White Male Christian Persecution complex. I don't get the "pretty clearly part of the problem".

Hypatian wrote:

So apparently there's a gofundme campaign for Darren Wilson:

Link here with some more info -

http://www.businessinsider.com/gofun...

Valmorian wrote:
Seth wrote:

Thanks for posting that, Farscry. We just had four examples (including mine and Farscry's) that were pretty clearly part of the problem, with a 50% denial rate. It's this tendency among people of my race to take things personally that causes so much of these issues.

The White Male Christian Persecution complex rings heavy even when only one or two of those indicators are present.

Eh? I'm not following you here. I don't feel persecuted if that's what you are implying. I'd be fine with more black people living in Edmonton, I just haven't had the opportunity to meet many.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Seth wrote:

We just had four examples (including mine and Farscry's) that were pretty clearly part of the problem, with a 50% denial rate.

Yeah, you're gonna have to explain that one pretty quick, Chief.

This may help: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Persecu...

Specifically:

Christian fundamentalists in the Bible Belt feel persecuted or "oppressed" whenever they find someone that doesn't share their particular worldview .... On closer examination of such claims, it's more commonly the case that claims of persecution are better explained as annoyance at the removal of privilege....

Edit: I don't think he was necessarily calling you guys out.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

No, I understand what he means by the White Male Christian Persecution complex. I don't get the "pretty clearly part of the problem".

You can be part of the problem but not promoting the problem. The fact you can't find people who aren't white in your community is part of the problem, and the fact that removes you from other worldviews on some level is part of the problem. I don't think it's an indictment of you as a racist or something.

To be clear, my point to the particular individual was within this context. If you live in this area (Raleigh) with its diversity and have so segregated yourself to the point that you can't think of five black, male friends to ask that question, it says a crapton about you and it probably isn't terribly complimentary.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

No, I understand what he means by the White Male Christian Persecution complex. I don't get the "pretty clearly part of the problem".

Ah, well, Farscry did a better job of explaining it.

Farscry wrote:

I live in a very white area (Iowa is not exactly a diverse population for the most part), which I do think makes me part of the problem. It requires me to make an actual effort to be a part of the solution, whether through raising awareness, being a part of letter-writing campaigns, donating money to fund organizations fighting against institutionalized discrimination, etc.

While you can't necessarily change the fact you live in area that isn't very diverse, you may be part of the silent majority who are incidentally suppressing minorities. Because you haven't been confronted with racial issues because of where you live and your privilege of being a White male or whatever catchall best describes you then you are effectively and unfortunately a "part of the problem". It is not your fault, it's your privilege to have been raised and live in a place like that.

However, if you actively are aware of and try to help fight against racism and other isms in any way possible then you have effectively removed yourself from that category.

"The problem is that white people see racism as conscious hate, when racism is bigger than that...

Racism is an insidious cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn’t care if you are a white person who likes black people; it’s still going to find a way to infect how you deal with people who don’t look like you. Yes, racism looks like hate, but hate is just one manifestation. Privilege is another. Access is another. Ignorance is another. Apathy is another. And so on.”

–Scott Woods, author and poet

Also:

Bloo Driver wrote:

I don't think it's an indictment of you as a racist or something.

"Part of the problem" is perhaps a bit harsher language than most people like to hear.

"Part of the problem" is perhaps a bit harsher language than most people like to hear.

Doesn't make it any less true, though.

Demosthenes wrote:
"Part of the problem" is perhaps a bit harsher language than most people like to hear.

Doesn't make it any less true, though.

I agree with both you and garion. It was harsher than I would've maybe chosen, and also true. I was tying it to Paleocon's example and used his terminology.

Maybe if I say "geographic segregation, whether intentional or not, contributes to the problems," it's a closer match...

Not to junior mod, but.. junior mod. This belongs in its own thread, and can only detract from the Ferguson-ness of this one.

Tanglebones wrote:

Not to junior mod, but.. junior mod. This belongs in its own thread, and can only detract from the Ferguson-ness of this one.

Should we call that the "Am I a Part of the Problem? (The Passive Racism)" thread?

garion333 wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Not to junior mod, but.. junior mod. This belongs in its own thread, and can only detract from the Ferguson-ness of this one.

Should we call that the "Am I a Part of the Problem? (The Passive Racism)" thread? ;)

I'm in for that one.

Vine of peaceful protest march last night.

NY Times article about the situation as of last night.

Blogpost: Ferguson and the Modern Debtor's Prison.

Ferguson's schools will be open on Monday

Kill Screen Daily: Videogames begin to respond to Ferguson

Two posts from media personnel critiquing media behavior in Ferguson: one two

Michael Brown Shooting: Why Ferguson Police Never Filed 'Incident Report'

CNN ride-along with Captain Ron Johnson, and one during the day

Memorial of roses:IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvmuXlJIYAAR3xb.jpg:large)