FF14: 2014 Fantasy Football Catch-all

*Legion* wrote:
Landshrk83 wrote:
garion333 wrote:

I'd also be okay with allowing open FA acquisition in the playoffs. No keepers though. That wouldn't be fair to teams not in the playoffs.

Totally agree. Once the playoffs start, any additions should be excluded from keeper rosters, and obviously any dropped players would no longer be eligible as keepers, either.

Reasonable compromise. Works for me.

Agreed.

I like .5 PPR but it sounds like a lot of folks don't. I think .5 PPR balances out passing vs running brought on by going to 2 FLEX, since chances are both FLEX positions will be primarily pass catchers since there so few decent RB in the NFL these days.

I am in favor of 2 FLEX, agreeing with *Legion* that 2 RB just makes poor RB's worth more without their adding any real value. And I think that 2FLEX is more fundamental to the game but if you go there you need to reduce PPR to .5 to offset the addition of what is generally more pass catchers in a game.

No idea if this post is comprehensible, need more coffee.

tboon wrote:

And I think that 2FLEX is more fundamental to the game but if you go there you need to reduce PPR to .5 to offset the addition of what is generally more pass catchers in a game.

No idea if this post is comprehensible, need more coffee.

I believe you just reasoned out why Grumps went to 2Flex and half point PPR last season.

garion333 wrote:
tboon wrote:

And I think that 2FLEX is more fundamental to the game but if you go there you need to reduce PPR to .5 to offset the addition of what is generally more pass catchers in a game.

No idea if this post is comprehensible, need more coffee.

I believe you just reasoned out why Grumps went to 2Flex and half point PPR last season. ;)

Yes, and he is obviously a very smart man.

These proposed scoring changes are for redraft only, right?

tboon wrote:

I like .5 PPR but it sounds like a lot of folks don't. I think .5 PPR balances out passing vs running brought on by going to 2 FLEX, since chances are both FLEX positions will be primarily pass catchers since there so few decent RB in the NFL these days.

I am in favor of 2 FLEX, agreeing with *Legion* that 2 RB just makes poor RB's worth more without their adding any real value. And I think that 2FLEX is more fundamental to the game but if you go there you need to reduce PPR to .5 to offset the addition of what is generally more pass catchers in a game.

No idea if this post is comprehensible, need more coffee.

I agree with this in its entirety. Including the coffee.

But I will say that at the end if the day, I'm just not noticing the major balance changing season to season. Maybe it's because I'm awesome either way. Or just lucky. Or probably because I'm not actually comparing every player's weekly score checking for the way it affects balance.

Grumps had solid reasoning for the changes he made last season and a strong opinion about it. What's changed this season that you are entertaining ad hoc changes without number/logic backing, grumps? Just curious.

tl;dr: Either way my vote is for no change, at least for the moment. If we roll back to full PPR, we should probably roll back to 1 flex. If last year is any indication, it probably won't change the week to week rosters drastically.

So there is some discussion of 2 Flex -> .5 PPR
I do not understand this reasoning.
Simply because one change came with the other, is no reason to link the two.

boogle wrote:

So there is some discussion of 2 Flex -> .5 PPR
I do not understand this reasoning.
Simply because one change came with the other, is no reason to link the two.

Grumps wrote:

Scoring changes

As balance to the additional flex slot, we will reduce the scoring per catch from 1 PPR to .5 PPR.

Put that in your pipe.

garion333 wrote:
boogle wrote:

So there is some discussion of 2 Flex -> .5 PPR
I do not understand this reasoning.
Simply because one change came with the other, is no reason to link the two.

Grumps wrote:

Scoring changes

As balance to the additional flex slot, we will reduce the scoring per catch from 1 PPR to .5 PPR.

Put that in your pipe. ;)

boogle has clearly killed enough brain cells in the last year, don't encourage him to kill more!

Jolly Bill wrote:
garion333 wrote:
boogle wrote:

So there is some discussion of 2 Flex -> .5 PPR
I do not understand this reasoning.
Simply because one change came with the other, is no reason to link the two.

Grumps wrote:

Scoring changes

As balance to the additional flex slot, we will reduce the scoring per catch from 1 PPR to .5 PPR.

Put that in your pipe. ;)

boogle has clearly killed enough brain cells in the last year, don't encourage him to kill more! ;-)

Have you seen his drafting? He's been brain dead for years.

Seems to me that if we go back to 1 PPR, the second flex should just be called WR4. I'm in favor of keeping both of them.

I think the proposed playoff FA compromise is good.

garion333 wrote:
boogle wrote:

So there is some discussion of 2 Flex -> .5 PPR
I do not understand this reasoning.
Simply because one change came with the other, is no reason to link the two.

Grumps wrote:

Scoring changes

As balance to the additional flex slot, we will reduce the scoring per catch from 1 PPR to .5 PPR.

Put that in your pipe. ;)

Forgive me. Given that we didn't see RB usage go down with 2 Flex, .5 PPR, I would argue for 2 Flex, 1 PPR at least on a trial basis in order to continue to more accurately reflect the changes in RB and WR value that are occurring in the NFL in the GWJFFLs.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

Seems to me that if we go back to 1 PPR, the second flex should just be called WR4. I'm in favor of keeping both of them.

But what if I have Jimmy Graham and Vernon Davis?

Yeah if the NFL won't let TEs be WRs we can't do it here either. Have to keep the extra flex spot.

garion333 wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:

Seems to me that if we go back to 1 PPR, the second flex should just be called WR4. I'm in favor of keeping both of them.

But what if I have Jimmy Graham and Vernon Davis?

There's still the original flex spot.

FSeven wrote:

These proposed scoring changes are for redraft only, right?

I've no interest in maintaining two scoring systems.

Jolly Bill wrote:

What's changed this season that you are entertaining ad hoc changes without number/logic backing, grumps? Just curious.

I just opened the floor to proposals/discussion. The only contribution I've made since then is asking if "bring back full point PPR" also meant we should also return to a single flex slot.

While I ultimately do what I think is best for the league (noting that "best" can be measured in multiple ways), I try to be as democratic as possible in arriving at those decisions.

Cool cool. I much appreciate the open-ended democratic approach this year. You have my sword!

Jolly Bill wrote:
tboon wrote:

I like .5 PPR but it sounds like a lot of folks don't. I think .5 PPR balances out passing vs running brought on by going to 2 FLEX, since chances are both FLEX positions will be primarily pass catchers since there so few decent RB in the NFL these days.

I am in favor of 2 FLEX, agreeing with *Legion* that 2 RB just makes poor RB's worth more without their adding any real value. And I think that 2FLEX is more fundamental to the game but if you go there you need to reduce PPR to .5 to offset the addition of what is generally more pass catchers in a game.

No idea if this post is comprehensible, need more coffee.

I agree with this in its entirety. Including the coffee.

But I will say that at the end if the day, I'm just not noticing the major balance changing season to season. Maybe it's because I'm awesome either way. Or just lucky. Or probably because I'm not actually comparing every player's weekly score checking for the way it affects balance.

Grumps had solid reasoning for the changes he made last season and a strong opinion about it. What's changed this season that you are entertaining ad hoc changes without number/logic backing, grumps? Just curious.

tl;dr: Either way my vote is for no change, at least for the moment. If we roll back to full PPR, we should probably roll back to 1 flex. If last year is any indication, it probably won't change the week to week rosters drastically.

tboon and jolly for president! Also, I like the playoff FA thing and them not being keeper eligible.

I did some maths and rescind my objection to 1 PPR. There are not more receivers used in the FLEX 2 spot, it looks like. Last year in Pro, of the 2 flex slots, on average ~1.3 went to RB, ~.6 went to WR and ~.1 went to TE each week.

So if I had a vote, I would vote for 2FLEX and don't care about PPR, 1 or .5 is fine by me.

Yay math. 1 ppr and 2 flex.

tboon wrote:

I did some maths and rescind my objection to 1 PPR.

Then I would also like to rescind my nomination of tboon for president

I'd rather keep the 2 flex. As far as PPR I just don't know what kind of difference it made/would make so I leave that up to Grumps.

ukickmydog wrote:
tboon wrote:

I did some maths and rescind my objection to 1 PPR.

Then I would also like to rescind my nomination of tboon for president :)

Then I shall run unopposed!

ukickmydog wrote:
tboon wrote:

I did some maths and rescind my objection to 1 PPR.

Then I would also like to rescind my nomination of tboon for president :)

Then I shall run unopposed!

AND IN MY SECOND POST I PROMISE TO CONTINUE THE POLICIES THAT MADE MY FIRST POST SO SUCCESSFUL!

nm

*Legion* wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
oldmanscene24 wrote:
boogle wrote:

Bring back full point per reception.

Seconded.

Leave it at 2 flex or roll that back as well?

I liked 0.5pt PPR, but of the two, I'd much rather fight to retain 2 FLEX / 1 RB.

The NFL game has evolved to where 2 RB makes no sense IMO. It turns marginal players into hot fantasy commodities solely because they play RB, and that drove me nuts. 2 FLEX / 1 RB was a major improvement on this front.

Doesn't allowing a team to lineup 5 WR in a 3 WR / 2 FLEX - 1xPPR league also turn marginal players into hot fantasy commodities?

tboon wrote:

I did some maths and rescind my objection to 1 PPR. There are not more receivers used in the FLEX 2 spot, it looks like. Last year in Pro, of the 2 flex slots, on average ~1.3 went to RB, ~.6 went to WR and ~.1 went to TE each week.

So if I had a vote, I would vote for 2FLEX and don't care about PPR, 1 or .5 is fine by me.

I wonder what the numbers were from previous seasons. Are we looking at 0.5 RB, 0.4 WR and 0.1 TE back with only one Flex slot?

As I recall there was already huge inflation on keepers from two years ago to last year. More than I expected, anyway. I'm sure that would just increase this year if we go to full PPR.

That goes for auction keeper league draft only, though.

FSeven wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
oldmanscene24 wrote:
boogle wrote:

Bring back full point per reception.

Seconded.

Leave it at 2 flex or roll that back as well?

I liked 0.5pt PPR, but of the two, I'd much rather fight to retain 2 FLEX / 1 RB.

The NFL game has evolved to where 2 RB makes no sense IMO. It turns marginal players into hot fantasy commodities solely because they play RB, and that drove me nuts. 2 FLEX / 1 RB was a major improvement on this front.

Doesn't allowing a team to lineup 5 WR in a 3 WR / 2 FLEX - 1xPPR league also turn marginal players into hot fantasy commodities?

No. It's the opposite of that. Players are hot commodities when they're scarce. WRs are a dime a dozen. You can grab a FA WR that catches a few passes anytime. RBs who touch the ball enough to score the same amount of points are much rarer, hence you're scraping the bottom of the talent barrel to try and get one.

We've taken a position that required a scarce resource to fill, and allow you to fill it with much more plentiful ones.

*Legion* wrote:
FSeven wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
oldmanscene24 wrote:
boogle wrote:

Bring back full point per reception.

Seconded.

Leave it at 2 flex or roll that back as well?

I liked 0.5pt PPR, but of the two, I'd much rather fight to retain 2 FLEX / 1 RB.

The NFL game has evolved to where 2 RB makes no sense IMO. It turns marginal players into hot fantasy commodities solely because they play RB, and that drove me nuts. 2 FLEX / 1 RB was a major improvement on this front.

Doesn't allowing a team to lineup 5 WR in a 3 WR / 2 FLEX - 1xPPR league also turn marginal players into hot fantasy commodities?

No. It's the opposite of that. Players are hot commodities when they're scarce. WRs are a dime a dozen. You can grab a FA WR that catches a few passes anytime. RBs who touch the ball enough to score the same amount of points are much rarer, hence you're scraping the bottom of the talent barrel to try and get one.

We've taken a position that required a scarce resource to fill, and allow you to fill it with much more plentiful ones.

This. Well put.