Microsoft Surface

Sold my Surface Pro 2 on CL yesterday, and picked up the Surface Pro 3 this morning (really didn't lose all that much on the deal). Best Buy will price match the Microsoft store's 10% education discount, and they're currently giving 10% back in reward certificates if you use their BB card to buy it.

Admittedly I haven't played with it for long, but I've had no problems so far. The aspect ratio change on the screen is a huge plus for me. I always felt squished in landscape mode and unwieldy in portrait with the SP2. There are plenty of reports of heat related CPU throttling that leads to decreased performance in some games, but I never really used the Surface for complex gaming all that much anyway.

I'm not a hardcore digital artist by any means, but I do like the new pen. The transition to fewer detected pressure levels is imperceptible to me. I've only used it for experimental note taking in OneNote, but it's excellently suited for that task.

I'd have loved to have the will power to hold out for the inevitable refresh with cooler running processors, but I find it mentally impossible to do so in spite of my best efforts and will likely find myself selling this one if the newer ones truly offer greater performance. All in all the upgrade cost me fairly little, and so far I'm happier with the SP3. I'm hooked on the Surface design.

Thank you, this review is very helpful.

I am thinking about getting one as a tag along computer for work trips were I can do some light gaming or download movies and whatnot for playback when I have no internet (like on a plane or in a crappy hotel).

The size factor is key to me and the only other thing I would consider dragging along with the Lenovo T420 I have to carry for work is a Razer laptop... and those are a lot more expensive.

My wife got the Pro 3 I5/8G/256G and we have been impressed with it so far. Battery life is solid and the new keyboard/trackpad are greatly improved. I think the transition from Win 7 to 8.1 will take a bit of getting used to for the wife, but my daughter (7.5) picked it up and had no issues at all. She has spent several hours drawing pictures and writing notes in OneNote and even managed to find the store and download FreshPaint. She's now talking about saving up her money to buy one of her own.

As far as using a Surface on work trips and such goes, I have an original Surface Pro that I have been using as a primary work device since it came out. I completely ditched the company laptop a few weeks after getting it and have never looked back. Even with the original Pro, it has little to no issues running VS2013, SQL Management Studio (both of which I use daily), and even Photoshop and Adobe Premiere. I imagine that the Pro 3 will be even better, and am hoping to upgrade to the I7/256 model later this year. The only problem I have ever run across is doing WP8.1 development/debugging in the VM, as it requires a lot of RAM. The 8G of RAM in the Pro2 or Pro3 would eliminate that issue completely.

As much as the backlit Type Cover 2 was a step forward from the original, its touchpad is a horrendous step back. I broke down and bought a SP3 Type Cover and attached it to my SP1--the new trackpad is so much better, even if the cover is larger than the screen. The keys themselves are a few millimeters narrower than on the Type Cover 2, which is odd, and the whole thing is longer front-to-back because of the larger trackpad and extra folding area adjacent to the connectors (it doesn't do the fold up magnetic thing on my SP1). Overall, though, it's a nice improvement.

TexasRay wrote:

The only problem I have ever run across is doing WP8.1 development/debugging in the VM, as it requires a lot of RAM. The 8G of RAM in the Pro2 or Pro3 would eliminate that issue completely.

Wait, what vm? Aren't you on windows already? Sorry, I haven't done any win8 dev.

RolandofGilead wrote:
TexasRay wrote:

The only problem I have ever run across is doing WP8.1 development/debugging in the VM, as it requires a lot of RAM. The 8G of RAM in the Pro2 or Pro3 would eliminate that issue completely.

Wait, what vm? Aren't you on windows already? Sorry, I haven't done any win8 dev.

Naw, to debug/test WP8 apps, they launch a VM that is running WP8 and that requires a lot of available RAM. Basically, I have to exit everything but VS2013 to do it on my Surface Pro. Since I don't do a ton of WP8 development, it really isn't an issue. Plus, I can remote into a more powerful box and do my WP8 development there if I really needed to.

Got to play with Surface Pro 3 the other day and I was thoroughly impressed. The screen size is great and it was much thinner/lighter than I'd thought it would be.

The only down side to me was the keyboard/cover. It wasn't very "lapable" for me. It felt awkard and uncomfortable. Since I'd be using the device more often as a laptop than tablet, I'm holding out hope that someone builds a hard keyboard addon for this device. Throw in an extra battery, and it'd be nearly perfect.

My wife has really enjoyed using her Surface 3 as a e-reader. With the Nook or Kindle app on there, and holding it in portrait orientation, it makes for a really nice reader.

The pixel density and screen size probably do even larger-format magazines justice.

I was fooling around with one at Best Buy the other day, and it does stir up the technogeek lust in me. The one thing about a full Windows 8 machine as a tablet that would be a concern for me is how easy it is to use applications not necessarily tuned for tablet use. Am I going to be fumbling to hit a button? If there's a lot of right mouse clicking, how does that work? Does the onscreen keyboard work reasonably well for touch typing like the iPad? Its tempting to have all that power to use in a tablet setting, but will I just be frustrated and wishing I had just gotten the latest iPad?

My wife tried one and didn't like it. Her big issue was everything was small and hard to read. Also the comfort as a laptop wasn't great.

indy wrote:

I was fooling around with one at Best Buy the other day, and it does stir up the technogeek lust in me. The one thing about a full Windows 8 machine as a tablet that would be a concern for me is how easy it is to use applications not necessarily tuned for tablet use. Am I going to be fumbling to hit a button? If there's a lot of right mouse clicking, how does that work? Does the onscreen keyboard work reasonably well for touch typing like the iPad? Its tempting to have all that power to use in a tablet setting, but will I just be frustrated and wishing I had just gotten the latest iPad?

If you want to do anything with the classic desktop, you need the Type Cover, or another keyboard and mouse of some kind to use with it. Everything you're worried about is only an issue on the classic desktop (and they attempt to enlarge text and controls by 50% to make them roughly the same size as on other screens, but mixed results). "Modern" apps don't use a right mouse click, the onscreen keyboard is as intelligent as it is for iOS (except for Chrome's "Windows 8 Mode"), and it's still a keyboard under glass.

I have three Surface Pro 3's sitting on my desk right now.

Spoiler:

None of them for me. Boss is still debating if the Tech Team needs to upgrade from our first gen devices

indy: The Surface Pro comes with a stylus that you can use as a mouse in Desktop mode. To right-click there is a button on the Stylus you can hold as you click. (The side-button closest to the top on the Surface Pro 3).
For our staff we've made a Bluetooth mouse part of the package, as well as the trackpad on the official Type Keyboard... so lots of Desktop control options. I also believe that pressing and holding with your finger acts as a right click if none of those are handy. (ha)

DSGamer: Can't really debate opinion, but coming from a first gen Surface where I've turned off all the scaling options and looking at the screen of the 3 is like going from a first gen iPad with a bad backlight to a shiny new retina display. That new display looks glorious in comparison. Was she trying a Surface 3? That variable kickstand works fantastic in the various seating situations I've tried. But that's without the keyboard attached. Those are backordered at the moment so I'm running the virtual keyboard, which also seems much much better than on the first gen.

TexasRay wrote:
RolandofGilead wrote:
TexasRay wrote:

The only problem I have ever run across is doing WP8.1 development/debugging in the VM, as it requires a lot of RAM. The 8G of RAM in the Pro2 or Pro3 would eliminate that issue completely.

Wait, what vm? Aren't you on windows already? Sorry, I haven't done any win8 dev.

Naw, to debug/test WP8 apps, they launch a VM that is running WP8 and that requires a lot of available RAM. Basically, I have to exit everything but VS2013 to do it on my Surface Pro. Since I don't do a ton of WP8 development, it really isn't an issue. Plus, I can remote into a more powerful box and do my WP8 development there if I really needed to.

I missed the P for Phone. Windows Phone 8 development. Yes, that would need a vm wouldn't it.

Cross posting from another thread. Thinking about getting a surface mostly for drawing but with gaming as a bonus. I fugue if it client such I can return it. Anyone use it for drawing. I also heard the 2 one was slightly better for that. True?

We used the Surface Pro 2 as our demo unit at PAX last year (Age of Empires II HD), and had a couple set up with the free Fresh Paint app as well. It seemed to work pretty well, there was a pressure sensitive stylus of some sort. Here's a photo of what one of our booth visitors did with it:

IMAGE(https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/l/t1.0-9/1233556_566436830060394_306275932_n.jpg)

There are more, I'll see if I can track them down.

master0 wrote:

Cross posting from another thread. Thinking about getting a surface mostly for drawing but with gaming as a bonus. I fugue if it client such I can return it. Anyone use it for drawing. I also heard the 2 one was slightly better for that. True?

Penny Arcade has some really good and honest articles on using both Surface 2 and 3 to draw comics. Microsoft even used them as a test case for the Surface 3 changes. I think in their present state, the Pro 2 would rate higher, but it seems like MS is working on some updates for the Pro 3 to make it better in that area.

TexasRay wrote:
master0 wrote:

Cross posting from another thread. Thinking about getting a surface mostly for drawing but with gaming as a bonus. I fugue if it client such I can return it. Anyone use it for drawing. I also heard the 2 one was slightly better for that. True?

Penny Arcade has some really good and honest articles on using both Surface 2 and 3 to draw comics. Microsoft even used them as a test case for the Surface 3 changes. I think in their present state, the Pro 2 would rate higher, but it seems like MS is working on some updates for the Pro 3 to make it better in that area.

Yeah I think I'm going to get it as soon as I can get the student discount. I got a chance to draw on with it at best buy and I liked with where more then my tablet. Not to mention I can use it as a laptop and for light gaming.

master0 wrote:

[Yeah I think I'm going to get it as soon as I can get the student discount. I got a chance to draw on with it at best buy and I liked with where more then my tablet. Not to mention I can use it as a laptop and for light gaming.

Extreme discounting. The Pro 3 has noticeably more severe thermal throttling when under continuous high load compared to the Pro 2.

Kurrelgyre wrote:
master0 wrote:

[Yeah I think I'm going to get it as soon as I can get the student discount. I got a chance to draw on with it at best buy and I liked with where more then my tablet. Not to mention I can use it as a laptop and for light gaming.

Extreme discounting. The Pro 3 has noticeably more severe thermal throttling when under continuous high load compared to the Pro 2.

Yeah, Anandtech's review said the Pro 2 is better for gaming due to the throttling on the 3.

For gaming, don't forget that you can plug an Xbox One controller into the USB port. There should be win 8 drivers available now.

i cant imagine gaming on either..the gpu is very weak. steam streaming works good though

TheGameguru wrote:

i cant imagine gaming on either..the gpu is very weak. steam streaming works good though :)

Not even for lighter 2d stuff? I'm thinking Broforce and Mark of the Ninja and other things like that should be fine. Is that not the case?

Thin_J wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

i cant imagine gaming on either..the gpu is very weak. steam streaming works good though :)

Not even for lighter 2d stuff? I'm thinking Broforce and Mark of the Ninja and other things like that should be fine. Is that not the case?

I just got it and it definitely can handle low end stuff fine. I was able to load up Deus ex revolution on it on normal settings. I'd probable have to lower it a bit but it should be playable. It's more for light gaming. Which is perfect for me. I have a heavy duty desktop that can handle the rest.

Oh and steam streaming was a total surprise to me. Pretty cool

Kurrelgyre wrote:
master0 wrote:

[Yeah I think I'm going to get it as soon as I can get the student discount. I got a chance to draw on with it at best buy and I liked with where more then my tablet. Not to mention I can use it as a laptop and for light gaming.

Extreme discounting. The Pro 3 has noticeably more severe thermal throttling when under continuous high load compared to the Pro 2.

Damn I didn't know about the movers coupon. Although I'm not sure if I understand it that well. You sign up for something with ups and they give you a coupon? Has anyone tried it? I wonder if I can go back and use it? It save me another 80 bucks or so.

Thin_J wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

i cant imagine gaming on either..the gpu is very weak. steam streaming works good though :)

Not even for lighter 2d stuff? I'm thinking Broforce and Mark of the Ninja and other things like that should be fine. Is that not the case?

My original Yoga is fine for basic stuff, and even runs Civ V in a nice Windows 8 touch mode with the graphics bumped down a bit. I would think these have similar hardware.

Does anyone have any experience using the I3/64G Surface 3? My daughter has saved up approximately $600 and wants to buy one. With the $150 student discount (ends on the 3rd), it is down to the point where we would make up the missing difference for her birthday.

She is mainly interested in using it as a digital art tablet, Netlfix and reader.

We have the I5/8G model and it has been very nice. I'm just not familiar enough with the differences between the I3 and I5 and 4G of RAM vs 8G to know if that is something that would really be noticed by a kid.

TexasRay wrote:

Does anyone have any experience using the I3/64G Surface 3? My daughter has saved up approximately $600 and wants to buy one. With the $150 student discount (ends on the 3rd), it is down to the point where we would make up the missing difference for her birthday.

She is mainly interested in using it as a digital art tablet, Netlfix and reader.

We have the I5/8G model and it has been very nice. I'm just not familiar enough with the differences between the I3 and I5 and 4G of RAM vs 8G to know if that is something that would really be noticed by a kid.

I know that Gabe from Penny Arcade thought there was a bit of stylus lag on the i5 that he thought didn't exist on the Surface Pro 2, and he'd attributed it to not having enough horsepower on the SP3 to drive the higher resolution. I think MS had him test an i7, and it still concerned him, but MS was assuring him it would be fixed. Not sure if that's happened or not. Gabe said most more casual users might never notice it IIRC. You can probably google and find his write ups, I know there were at least a couple.

Other than that, it could be great.

MannishBoy wrote:
TexasRay wrote:

Does anyone have any experience using the I3/64G Surface 3? My daughter has saved up approximately $600 and wants to buy one. With the $150 student discount (ends on the 3rd), it is down to the point where we would make up the missing difference for her birthday.

She is mainly interested in using it as a digital art tablet, Netlfix and reader.

We have the I5/8G model and it has been very nice. I'm just not familiar enough with the differences between the I3 and I5 and 4G of RAM vs 8G to know if that is something that would really be noticed by a kid.

I know that Gabe from Penny Arcade thought there was a bit of stylus lag on the i5 that he thought didn't exist on the Surface Pro 2, and he'd attributed it to not having enough horsepower on the SP3 to drive the higher resolution. I think MS had him test an i7, and it still concerned him, but MS was assuring him it would be fixed. Not sure if that's happened or not. Gabe said most more casual users might never notice it IIRC. You can probably google and find his write ups, I know there were at least a couple.

Other than that, it could be great.

Yeah my only worry would be the hard drive. If ou get the 64 gig, that's not a lot especially after the os is installed. Course depends what you need it for.

Well, we decided to hold off until the holidays to see if there is another discount or price drop.

Regarding the space, I think we can augment that with a MicroSD card for things like music and videos. Not ideal, but given the price difference to go up to 128G or 256G, I think it will suffice once we get around to pulling the trigger.

I recently happened upon a surface 2 running RT. I gotta say I'm more impressed with it than I really thought I would be. I was in the market for an Android tablet and hardly considered getting a Surface. After using it for a while, I now have a better appreciation for the Windows 8 OS. The multitasking bits thrown in also work fairly well. The USB port and kickstand is a plus. The downside: lack of apps and for a platform that can't run anything outside the store, this definitely hurts the product a bit. For a reading and watching device though, it gets the job done really well.