American Futbol's Future

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

One of the reasons football (the American version) succeeds so spectacularly as a spectator sport is because of the constant stoppages of play. I can run to the bathroom, get a beer, grab a snack, discuss the last play, argue over great players, mock the announcers, or explain details to my son. It's the opportunity for people to socialize and bond. It's also where the obvious points of strategy come in; football, for all the violence, is an incredibly cerebral game, and the instant analysis you can do between every play makes the game. A lack of timeouts mean none of that happens.

Actually, that's one of the reasons I hate watching American football, especially at the professional level. The game stops constantly, almost randomly, so that by the time a game is finished, you'll have watched more advertisements, replays, talking heads, and sideline reports than actual live play. It drives me up the wall. And I'll agree with Prederick above: all of the analysis and conversation you get in a game of American football can happen with a game of soccer, it just happens in real-time instead of in fits and starts.

This thread is funny. The world's most popular sport doesn't need to be moulded to suit the mainstream American audience.

Even if it doesn't become mainstream in America it will grow slowly over time, more people seem to be staying interested in the sport every year, the largest international contingent that came out for the world cup was from the US.

Saying that the sport (which I don't personally like) needs to become another sport to become popular in one country is just the symptom of an odd world view.

It's like hockey. When they were first pushing hockey into the states, Fox decided that americans couldn't follow the puck, so they added a "trail" to the hockey puck, and called it FoxTrax.

It didn't last that long.

Changes to the game won't do much to get uninterested people interested. What it requires is an increased acceptance and popularity of the sport in the culture.

And also, if you have a chance, go see a club team of some sort. The thing that got me into soccer and enjoying it was when the Jeux de la Francophonie were being held in Ottawa, and I went to see one of the soccer games (Egypt vs Jordan I think). Seeing it live is a whole lot more interesting.

Funny enough, the one person at our party for the World Cup Final who didn't care at all about soccer was the one who brought up the FoxTrax. He talked about what a great idea it would be to have something similar for soccer; the rest of us just grimaced and nodded.

It was telling that in 80 years of World Cup history, no team has ever come from being two goals down at the half to win a game. From a fan perspective, that sucks big time. The huge field, the level of fatigue, and the number of players gives the team with the lead a huge advantage. That is just poor design.

I think someone else mentioned that baseball, football and basketball are all growing in both South and Central America, Europe and Asia at a much faster pace than soccer is here. I don't think the discussion will eventually be as much about how to grow soccer in the US, but how to maintain soccer in the rest of the world.

Jayhawker wrote:

I think someone else mentioned that baseball, football and basketball are all growing in both South and Central America, Europe and Asia at a much faster pace than soccer is here. I don't think the discussion will eventually be as much about how to grow soccer in the US, but how to maintain soccer in the rest of the world.

Those sports may be growing, but soccer in those countries is to those sports as football is in the US is to other sports.

The lead they have in popularity is so large as to be, without a dramatic change in the game, insurmountable.

Jayhawker wrote:

It was telling that in 80 years of World Cup history, no team has ever come from being two goals down at the half to win a game. From a fan perspective, that sucks big time. The huge field, the level of fatigue, and the number of players gives the team with the lead a huge advantage. That is just poor design.

I think someone else mentioned that baseball, football and basketball are all growing in both South and Central America, Europe and Asia at a much faster pace than soccer is here. I don't think the discussion will eventually be as much about how to grow soccer in the US, but how to maintain soccer in the rest of the world.

I call BS on the growth of the popularity of American sports, especially football and baseball in other areas of the world. Baseball is struggling to rejoin the Olympics, and the thought of football in the Olympics is laughable.

I would be shocked, shocked, if I ever see a significant professional baseball (not counting Japan) or football league develop anywhere else in the world during my lifetime. Meanwhile the US already has MLS which I expect will surpass the NHL and will narrow the gap with MLB over the next 20-30 years (Including Univsion and ESPNdeportes ratings).

Furthermore, while the MLB and NFL are broadcast internationally, thanks largely to the domination of American media, actual participation in those sports are a non starter for most of the world due to their participation cost and complexity.

Basketball is a different story as it is already a readily accepted international sport.

Jayhawker wrote:

It was telling that in 80 years of World Cup history, no team has ever come from being two goals down at the half to win a game. From a fan perspective, that sucks big time. The huge field, the level of fatigue, and the number of players gives the team with the lead a huge advantage. That is just poor design.

The US did this year. And then that referee took away the goal for no reason whatsoever.

Badferret wrote:

I would be shocked, shocked, if I ever see a significant professional baseball (not counting Japan) or football league develop anywhere else in the world during my lifetime. Meanwhile the US already has MLS which I expect will surpass the NHL and will narrow the gap with MLB over the next 20-30 years (Including Univsion and ESPNdeportes ratings).

Yeah, baseball and hockey are widespread amateur and club sports, but they are really just middle class curiosities in most places. Football has no chance though, it takes too much gear to play safely for a start.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
Badferret wrote:

I would be shocked, shocked, if I ever see a significant professional baseball (not counting Japan) or football league develop anywhere else in the world during my lifetime. Meanwhile the US already has MLS which I expect will surpass the NHL and will narrow the gap with MLB over the next 20-30 years (Including Univsion and ESPNdeportes ratings).

Yeah, baseball and hockey are widespread amateur and club sports, but they are really just middle class curiosities in most places. Football has no chance though, it takes too much gear to play safely for a start.

Oh yeah? Well, I'll be back in 20-30 years and see what you have to say!

I thought I should mention that in first grade, circe 1975, I had a Pele lunch box. Soccer was just about to break out in the US. I played soccer for a few years, from about '78-'80. In high school I used work at an indoor soccer facility. I also covered soccer for my school paper, including winning an award for an article about the injuries suffered by one of our school's better soccer players.

Seriously, I've heard this notion that soccer was about to become popular any minute for decades. Nothing has made me think that Americans are ever really going to care about soccer beyond playing it in youth leagues and casually. Right now, ESPN broadcasts more college softball games than college soccer games.

Jayhawker wrote:

Oh yeah? Well, I'll be back in 20-30 years and see what you have to say!

We will probably be having this exact same conversation.

Jayhawker wrote:

Seriously, I've heard this notion that soccer was about to become popular any minute for decades. Nothing has made me think that Americans are ever really going to care about soccer beyond playing it in youth leagues and casually.

QFT

I have to be honest, the mainstream American futbol will be reinvigorated at the next world cup.

Well, I didn't watch much of the world cup, but soccer was always my favorite sport as a youngster (doesn't hurt that I was pretty damn good at it), but because of the love for the World Cup and eternal praise for Football Manager, well, I bought that game and FIFA 10. I'll be better versed in all things soccer when the next World Cup comes around.

garion333 wrote:

Well, I didn't watch much of the world cup, but soccer was always my favorite sport as a youngster (doesn't hurt that I was pretty damn good at it), but because of the love for the World Cup and eternal praise for Football Manager, well, I bought that game and FIFA 10. I'll be better versed in all things soccer when the next World Cup comes around. ;)

When I started following professional soccer 5 years ago, most of my team/player/tactical/business knowledge of the real world came from Football Manager. It's a great tool for learning the game once you have a basic understanding of the sport.

I want FIFA 10, but it seems like FIFA 11 isn't too far away, and 10 hasn't dropped price at all.

I feel obligated to post this story that makes me think soccer is catching on more than I had assumed.

Jack Jewsbury has been with the Wizards since 2003 and can remember some meager crowds at Arrowhead Stadium in his early years.

“There were a few Wednesday night games that I recall,” Jewsbury said, “where the attendance was said to be 7,000 to 10,000, but it seemed like there were 500 or 1,000 people here.”

When Jewsbury, a midfielder, came on as a substitute in the second half of the Wizards’ 2-1 victory against Manchester United on Sunday, he was thrilled by what he saw in the stands, where a record crowd of 52,424 took in the game.

But it does seem that the team has realistic, if not pessimistic expectations.

The Wizards, who were bought by OnGoal in 2006 from the Hunt family, unveiled a model of their new stadium at halftime of Sunday’s game. It’s being built at Village West in Kansas City, Kan., and is due to open in June of next year.

It’ll have a capacity of 18,500, so there won’t be any crowds as large as Sunday at Arrowhead. But the players hope that the passion displayed will be the same.

I hate saying it, but I think Simmons was dead on in his most recent mailbag.

Soccer will get no bigger than AAA baseball. That's not a bad thing, AAA baseball is profitable, and reasonably well-attended. The teams are part of their communities, albeit small parts, but still, part. That's what the best-case is, I think.

Tanglebones wrote:

I want FIFA 10, but it seems like FIFA 11 isn't too far away, and 10 hasn't dropped price at all.

Get FIFA 10 when 11 releases. That's the trick.

Prederick wrote:

Soccer will get no bigger than AAA baseball. That's not a bad thing, AAA baseball is profitable, and reasonably well-attended. The teams are part of their communities, albeit small parts, but still, part. That's what the best-case is, I think.

I wish that Colorado Springs would have a soccer team instead of a minor league baseball team. I think it might be better attended than the Sky Sox games. But nooooooooooo, everything has to be in Denver.

Honestly, 18,000 sounds about right for a soccer stadium. Seems reasonable.

I know we're done with the WC but I just noticed today that Edson Buddle (LA Galaxy) scored 12 goals in 11 MLS games this season and from what I hear, he did very well the season before.

I think the fact that he didn't start at all in the WC is grounds enough to fire Coach Bradley. How do you leave him on the bench for most of the game when he's arguably our best scoring forward? The guy had just scored twice against Austrailia (albeit in a friendly) and gets no love.

On a side note, Davies recently scored (first goal since the accident) for his club and Edu scored for his as well. Also, Jermaine Jones is finally back from his injury and playing and he should hopefully be part of the USMNT sometime soon.

I figured this was a good time for this thread to rise from the grave. We can continue our jingoistic discussions of Merica's team without distracting from the final 8 still playing.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

I just saw an ESPN FC article where a FIFA bigwig is saying that the US should be strongly considered for World Cup 2026, which is the exact year I was hoping for. That does make you wonder if they intend to leave 2022 in Qatar now. We'll see.

Another article on that site has Klinnsman saying that the US is now ready to win the World Cup. "So keep me on through 2018", Klinnsman was not reported to have said...out loud.

Edit: Here's that Klinnsman article:
http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/s...

He says a couple things I really, really like:

1) He intends to continue bringing in new, young talent in our upcoming friendlies.
2) He intends to field the strongest team possible for the 2015 CONCACAF Gold Cup.

2 is especially important, imho, because winning the Gold Cup again would automatically qualify us for the 2016 Confederations Cup, which would be a great opportunity for us to get more tournament experience against some of the world's strongest teams. I think the last time we played competitive matches with non-CONCACAF teams may have been World Cup 2010.

Speaking of which, another opportunity for competitive play will be the Copa America Centenario, which is a special version of the South America regional tournament (CONMEBOL's equivalent of the Gold Cup). We'll be in that along with Mexico and the best South American teams. It's also being held in the US, so perhaps some of us will find ourselves at a live match.

I'm also really hoping that we make the Olympics during this cycle and the U-23 plus 3 senior format might be a nice opportunity for a Dempsey/Donovan/Howard send off; while also continuing to develop our young guns.

Many articles like this one, taking a look at a possible pool for 2018. I really like the looks of our likely starting back line and it looks like the midfield will have real depth. I don't see many new names at striker, so we better hope that Jozy and Johannsson stay healthy and continue to develop.

Nice, ferret! I've been thinking we needed this thread now, too, but had no idea it already existed! Pretty sure I missed it in 2010.

I agree completely about the Olympics. I think it was horrible that we didn't even qualify last time. Hopefully, Jurgen and US Soccer* will have that sorted out this time around. It should be another great experience for our younger players, and a few not so young.

*I have no idea who usually coaches the teams other than the senior USMNT, but I assume that Jurgen would be coaching at the Olympics. In any case, he's been given a broad mandate to reshape the US Soccer system.

Do any of you guys keep up with the MLS? I know it's considered a sub-par league, but I'd really like to get into it. I have no love for any particular teams from any of the other leagues, though I like watching soccer. And Atlanta will be getting an expansion in a couple years, so I figure I can support them when they arrive.

mwdowns wrote:

Do any of you guys keep up with the MLS? I know it's considered a sub-par league, but I'd really like to get into it. I have no love for any particular teams from any of the other leagues, though I like watching soccer. And Atlanta will be getting an expansion in a couple years, so I figure I can support them when they arrive.

Was just starting to try and follow some soccer, and Sporting KC is who I follow, since I am pretty much all KC or St. Louis in the teams I follow. I have to admit that seeing Besler and Zusi play in the world cup has made it more interesting. I'm anxious to get up to KC to see a game.

The issue is, its hard to find the games on TV, but I think that will improve going forward. The MLS have made some recent TV deals.

Unfortunately, in Houston the MLS deal is exclusive to Comcast. Comcast bought the rights to our MLS, NBA, and MLB teams. If you don't have Comcast, you can't see the games. It's insane. We've missed two years of the Rockets so far.

I've been to two Dynamo games in person, and they were pretty cool.

mwdowns wrote:

Do any of you guys keep up with the MLS? I know it's considered a sub-par league, but I'd really like to get into it. I have no love for any particular teams from any of the other leagues, though I like watching soccer. And Atlanta will be getting an expansion in a couple years, so I figure I can support them when they arrive.

I casually follow the Portland Timbers (and the Thorns, in the NWSL) - I went to a game there while traveling for work a while back, and the fans were outstanding.

IMAGE(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3749/8970598594_230be77464_c.jpg)

If I'm still living in the Bronx next year, I'm going to try to get to some NYCFC games.

Heh - just re-read the thread, and my first post ended with.

Dimmerswitch wrote:

My vote would be to pull a Germany, and have a really young core for our next World Cup team.

Yedlin, Brooks, Green, Jóhannsson, Besler, Johnson - I expect that (barring injury) you guys will all be playing a major role in this next tournament cycle. Good luck.

Dimmerswitch wrote:

Heh - just re-read the thread, and my first post ended with.

Dimmerswitch wrote:

My vote would be to pull a Germany, and have a really young core for our next World Cup team.

Yedlin, Brooks, Green, Jóhannsson, Besler, Johnson - I expect that (barring injury) you guys will all be playing a major role in this next tournament cycle. Good luck.

We didn't just pull a Germany, we pulled a bunch of actual Germans onto our squad!

mwdowns wrote:

Do any of you guys keep up with the MLS? I know it's considered a sub-par league, but I'd really like to get into it. I have no love for any particular teams from any of the other leagues, though I like watching soccer. And Atlanta will be getting an expansion in a couple years, so I figure I can support them when they arrive.

Season ticket holder with the Timbers. Before you make too many judgements on quality, watch a few games, and not just whatever happens to be on on a Tuesday night or whatever. Salt Lake, Seattle, New England, Vancouver, and Kansas City are the teams that are playing the prettiest ball right now. MLS is not a top tier league like the Bundesliga, La Liga, or the Premier League, but it's pretty solidly in the next level of football. A team like RSL or Kansas City would not be out of place in a European league like France, or the Eredivisie. The issue with MLS right now isn't necessarily player quality, it's depth. The current salary cap doesn't allow for a real second team which causes a lot of hiccups and drops in quality when key players go down. That might be about to change, though. LA just started a team in the USL Pro (USA Third Division), which will be used to develop their backups and academy players. Portland's looking into doing the same thing, and I think Seattle is as well.

A couple of really great goals that I've seen in person:

IMAGE(http://i.minus.com/iDDc8PdgfFHfy.gif)

IMAGE(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5457552640/hFFA7FCC6/)

And then Jack McInerny did this last week:

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/mat...

Btw, if you want to get in on the Atlanta club, you might want to look into tickets now. Supposedly their season ticket deposits are through the roof, looking a bit like what Seattle and Portland did when they first came into the league.