Windows 8

Never mind.

MALOR wrote:

Metro mode is a walled garden, where everyone has to pay toll to Microsoft, and programs simply can't do many things, particularly things that would be competitive with Microsoft, like being a proper web browser.

No. From the article I just linked to:

Google seems to be exploiting the fact that Windows 8 treats web browsers differently than normal Metro apps. A conventional Metro app is confined by the WinRT runtime to a very restrictive set of features, with the ostensible purpose of making sure that the Metro side of Windows 8 runs smoothly on tablets, doesn’t crash, and is energy efficient on tablets. Browsers, however, are conventional Win32 apps that are allowed to open in the Metro interface. This is primarily because modern browsers, with complex HTML5 and JavaScript web apps, are almost like virtual operating systems, and thus need extra access to low-level resources that conventional Metro apps don’t need. It would seem that Google has used this feature to port the Chrome OS window manager to Win32 — probably not exactly how Microsoft intended this feature to be used.

MannishBoy wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
Parallax Abstraction wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

So for some reason, Windows update seems to have decided to destroy itself on my main machine. No updates since 4/5, right before 8.1 update 1. All I can find is my error code is basically the last on the list, meaning the system doesn't know what happened. I think it's looking like some files may be missing. Not sure if I can copy them from my updated laptop and reregister them, or if I'm going to have to reinstall.

Go try out the utility Tweaking.com Windows Repair. It has a module in it for repairing Windows Update. I can't even remember the number of times this utility's saved my ass. I've actually donated to its developer, it's that good.

I laughed at the domain "tweaking.com". So many ways that could go so wrong on a random click.

I'll try it. Thanks for the recommendation.

EDIT: Nope. Didn't fix it. Might have to try the laptop file copy, but the laptop is already on 8.1 update 1.

Try anything in this thread? It looks like the Win 8.1 update rollout is a complete mess right now. I'm going to wait awhile before attempting.

My laptop got it fine and it has WMC on it. It looks like the last update check that worked was on 4/5.

The error I'm getting seems to be one nobody knows what it means. Seems it's just the last one in the table of errors according to some post I saw, so it might just be the catch all for everything not identified. It's error 80244FFF.

EDIT: Another google search turned up this thread with the following:

Go to Internet Options->Connections->LAN settings. Check "Use a proxy server for your LAN". Under "Advanced", for the "HTTP" and "Secure" text boxes, type in "127.0.0.1" for the address and "8888" for the port. Under "exceptions", type in: "<-loopback>".

Strangely, that worked. Makes absolutely no sense, and you can't use regular internet stuff with that loop back proxy set up. But I'll be damned if I didn't get the updates.

Turn off the proxy, and get the new error of 80240442. Which is apparently the new error for the same problem on Win 8.1 update 1.

Banging your head on the wall hurts.

And suddenly, it magically starts working again. I'd had to periodically do the proxy loop back to get updates to work since originally posting, then today I get notification that I had updates waiting.

Win 8.1 soundcard question:

I've been using onboard sound for both headset and speakers, with the Realtek drivers automatically switching to headphone if one is plugged in. However, quite awhile back I bought a Xonar DX on a sale with rebate, but have never installed it. I was thinking about putting it in and using it solely to drive my headset. How well does Win 8.1 switch between onboard and sound cards? I know how USB headsets switch over, is it similar to that in that you just switch sources the same way?

MannishBoy wrote:

Win 8.1 soundcard question:

I've been using onboard sound for both headset and speakers, with the Realtek drivers automatically switching to headphone if one is plugged in. However, quite awhile back I bought a Xonar DX on a sale with rebate, but have never installed it. I was thinking about putting it in and using it solely to drive my headset. How well does Win 8.1 switch between onboard and sound cards? I know how USB headsets switch over, is it similar to that in that you just switch sources the same way?

Not speaking from experience, but if it adds a playback device, it should be as simple as setting it as your default device. Then whenever you plug it back in, Windows will automatically select it. It does this for my wireless headphones' USB dongle, which is functionally a separate sound card (it does not respond to the built-in Realtek EQ or other settings), though it does forget if I don't connect dongle for a while.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

Win 8.1 soundcard question:

I've been using onboard sound for both headset and speakers, with the Realtek drivers automatically switching to headphone if one is plugged in. However, quite awhile back I bought a Xonar DX on a sale with rebate, but have never installed it. I was thinking about putting it in and using it solely to drive my headset. How well does Win 8.1 switch between onboard and sound cards? I know how USB headsets switch over, is it similar to that in that you just switch sources the same way?

Not speaking from experience, but if it adds a playback device, it should be as simple as setting it as your default device. Then whenever you plug it back in, Windows will automatically select it. It does this for my wireless headphones' USB dongle, which is functionally a separate sound card (it does not respond to the built-in Realtek EQ or other settings), though it does forget if I don't connect dongle for a while.

That's kind of what I was asking. Like I said, I know that USB headsets worked that way, but wanted to make sure the PCI-E bus stuff would work the same way without conflict. I assume you're right, but was just trying to verify before I started messing with it.

Your existing soundcard may already do what you want. The better Realtek sound chips can drive the headphones independently from the speakers, though they'll often default to duplicating (and muting) speakers when you plug in headphones. Dig around in the control panel and see what you find.

Xonars have good to excellent hardware, but their driver quality isn't great.

I'm not wanting independent, just a better amp and hardware Dolby Headphone.

I actually really like the way the Realtek drivers do the auto switching when you plug in the headphones.

Malor wrote:

Your existing soundcard may already do what you want. The better Realtek sound chips can drive the headphones independently from the speakers, though they'll often default to duplicating (and muting) speakers when you plug in headphones. Dig around in the control panel and see what you find.

Xonars have good to excellent hardware, but their driver quality isn't great.

I've been using a Xonar DGX since 2011 and yeah, the hardware is quite good (on my Razer Carcharias, I notice a notable improvement in sound quality over my built-in Realtek) but the drivers are adequate only and they've literally never been updated in the time I've owned the card. They released drivers for Windows 8 that are just the previous Windows 7 version with some flags tripped I think. However, a guy does write alternative drivers that use a much more current base and supposedly bring big improvements that Asus won't bother to address. I've never had problems with the Asus drivers so I haven't bothered to try them.

The thing with Realtek on-board is that the core DAC is perfectly fine, it all depends what headphone amp your mainboard manufacturer chooses to use. My old crappy EVGA board used the cheapest amp they could get and I had to buy the Xonar because the on-board couldn't drive my Carcharias. On my new MSI Z77-GD65, it's the same Realtek but with a much better amp that can drive my Carcharias, I just find there's more hiss.

On my prior motherboard, I had a Realtek 889, which was the flagship at the time, and it had an interesting issue: if there were no speakers plugged in, the headphone amp was really hissy. But if I connected speakers, it quieted right down, and sounded great.

That board eventually died, and the replacement (which I'm using now) has an 898, which is another flagship chip. It sounds really, really good to my ears. I used to have a Xonar D2X, which sounded marvelous, and if the 898 is inferior, it's not by much.

I still prefer sending music as digital stereo over the S/PDIF, though, because then the Audyssey kicks in, which improves the sound a ton. A quality receiver will essentially always have a better DAC than what's in the computer, and a full digital signal path to that final DAC will give you the best possible sound quality. Further, with the better receivers, you've got some serious DSP mojo going on, like Audyssey. IMO, that's the best way by far to get quality sound out of a computer, though you can do quite well on a good motherboard and a good pair of headphones.

It sure beats the hell out of the Windows XP days. Computer sound used to be completely horrid, but it's usually at least competent now, and sometimes it's outstanding.

I don't see how it's "confirmed" without something official from MS.

I can see saying "multiple sources have reported", etc. Just not confirmed. And since they have a source, saying that is fine, but it's still not a true product announcement from typical corporate channels.

Anyway, that would be a nice move for them, especially since they took out the mini-start menu from Update 2 where it was originally reported to have been (and I realize how this statement sounds after my first point of this post).

MannishBoy wrote:

I don't see how it's "confirmed" without something official from MS.

I can see saying "multiple sources have reported", etc. Just not confirmed.

Anyway, that would be a nice move for them, especially since they took out the mini-start menu from Update 2 where it was originally reported to have been (and I realize how this statement sounds after my first point of this post).

that's why I said allegedly. The article says the source is supposedly the Microsoft president in Indonesia. I'm taking it with a grain of salt right now.

I've read a lot of crazy Apple rumors, but this is the first crazy Microsoft rumor I've heard in quite a while.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

that's why I said allegedly. The article says the source is supposedly the Microsoft president in Indonesia. I'm taking it with a grain of salt right now.

I'm not complaining about your post, I'm complaining about the reporting.

MannishBoy wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

that's why I said allegedly. The article says the source is supposedly the Microsoft president in Indonesia. I'm taking it with a grain of salt right now.

I'm not complaining about your post, I'm complaining about the reporting.

ah, gotcha.

misplacedbravado wrote:

I've read a lot of crazy Apple rumors, but this is the first crazy Microsoft rumor I've heard in quite a while.

this one may be a bit out there, but Microsoft is definitely moving in this direction. I wouldn't be surprised if Windows goes free for certain users by Windows 10 (assuming 9 isn't the last of the Windows-named OS's)

Oh, yeah, that seems very likely. Microsoft would desperately like everyone to subscribe instead of purchasing outright.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

that's why I said allegedly. The article says the source is supposedly the Microsoft president in Indonesia. I'm taking it with a grain of salt right now.

I'm not complaining about your post, I'm complaining about the reporting.

ah, gotcha.

misplacedbravado wrote:

I've read a lot of crazy Apple rumors, but this is the first crazy Microsoft rumor I've heard in quite a while.

this one may be a bit out there, but Microsoft is definitely moving in this direction. I wouldn't be surprised if Windows goes free for certain users by Windows 10 (assuming 9 isn't the last of the Windows-named OS's)

I was actually expecting a Office 365 type of deal, where you pay $25 a year or so for a personal license, or maybe $50-$75 for a family license (5 install limit). With that, you get extra OneDrive storage, Skype benefits, maybe Xbox Live*, and Windows current version licenses.

*If Live's included, move the price upwards $50.

Malor wrote:

Oh, yeah, that seems very likely. Microsoft would desperately like everyone to subscribe instead of purchasing outright.

Yeah, that's definitely what they've been wanting for YEARS. Office 365 is actually a very good deal, and supposedly going well for them. It's an especially good deal if you need storage space, as they're including 1TB per account (up to 5 in the $100 family deal).

For their apps and services, but I doubt they'd want to do that for the OS itself. It's one thing if office 365 goes down because of a connectivity issue, but it's a much bigger problem if that happened to Windows itself.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

For their apps and services, but I doubt they'd want to do that for the OS itself. It's one thing if office 365 goes down because of a connectivity issue, but it's a much bigger problem if that happened to Windows itself.

Office 365 is both online and local installs. I rarely use the online part, but use the local instead. So if it goes down online, worst case is my OneDrive connection may take awhile to sync.

So that would be even less of an issue for the OS. I would assume that if you stop the license, you just end up with a situation like an unauthenticated current OS version, with some modifications to allow you to basically keep on going with your current OS version but with features removed (reduce OneDrive space, etc).

MannishBoy wrote:
Malor wrote:

Oh, yeah, that seems very likely. Microsoft would desperately like everyone to subscribe instead of purchasing outright.

Yeah, that's definitely what they've been wanting for YEARS. Office 365 is actually a very good deal, and supposedly going well for them. It's an especially good deal if you need storage space, as they're including 1TB per account (up to 5 in the $100 family deal).

Even crazier, if you were wanting the Personal version ($70, single system), it comes bundled with the Encore Mini (it's not really a HD screen, though) onto which it's not pre-installed.

Kurrelgyre wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
Malor wrote:

Oh, yeah, that seems very likely. Microsoft would desperately like everyone to subscribe instead of purchasing outright.

Yeah, that's definitely what they've been wanting for YEARS. Office 365 is actually a very good deal, and supposedly going well for them. It's an especially good deal if you need storage space, as they're including 1TB per account (up to 5 in the $100 family deal).

Even crazier, if you were wanting the Personal version ($70, single system), it comes bundled with the Encore Mini (it's not really a HD screen, though) onto which it's not pre-installed.

That actually is pretty cool.

It could be true, given that Apple gives its OS away. But I certainly see merrit in the suggestions that it is going to be subscription based.
Which will mean I will stick with 8.1 of course. More expensive over the years in my opinion.

The reason they'll have more trouble with this than a Apple does is that upgrading windows still tends to mean a full reinstall while the OS X upgrade works flawlessly in my experience. Still, I'll be happy if windows 9 doesn't break the bank.

complexmath wrote:

The reason they'll have more trouble with this than a Apple does is that upgrading windows still tends to mean a full reinstall while the OS X upgrade works flawlessly in my experience. Still, I'll be happy if windows 9 doesn't break the bank.

Win 8 upgrade worked pretty well. I have always done fresh installs, but Win 8 was fine.

Yeah, upgrading Windows has become much better since Windows 7. Being who I am, I always do fresh installs but I've done a number of Vista-7 and a few 7-8 upgrades for clients and it works extremely well now.

Oh good to know. It would be great if 7-9 were my last full reinstall.

complexmath wrote:

Oh good to know. It would be great if 7-9 were my last full reinstall.

I've heard that Windows 9 may be the last of the numbered Windows versions as they might be planning to move to more incremental updates from here on out. There might be some more details coming tomorrow and Wednesday.

I would be surprised to see Microsoft charge for Windows 9. At this point one would imagine that facing increasing pressure from all fronts that Microsoft simply moves it to free.

That being said MS still makes a ton of money off the Windows OS license from all sorts of channels