Blackhand Poll

Operating on the assumption that Blizzard actually intends to enable character moves to low population servers AND allows you to choose the new server, should the Guilds move?

If and when this happens, I figure we can discuss which server at that time.

I see no reason to. The Queue almost never happens now and it seems that lag is pretty evenly spread around all servers. Another thing to keep in mind is that higher populations means better prices at the auction house!

I haven''t experienced any significant problems with Blackhand since the first couple of weeks, so I vote no. As Certis mentioned, having a high server population does have some benefits, such as more dwarves to slaughter in PvP.

"Certis" wrote:

Another thing to keep in mind is that higher populations means better prices at the auction house!

Unless you''re trying to sell something!

I haven''t voted above, but agree with Certis and Cloke. I can''t really think of a good reason to move the guild to another server.

Based on comments in other forums, the lag issues seem to be pretty widespread across servers. If the Blackhand wait queues were still on the 250-400+ range like they used to be, it''d be another story. But the wait queues I''ve run up against when loggin in later in the evening have been too small to be significant (<60), with only a minute or 2 wait to get in.

Only if we move to Zul''jin - the other group of guys that I play with is over there, and I get heat for not playing with them all the time.

We''ve got five and ten minute queues on weekday nights..

What''s that, you say? Five minutes is no big deal? WoW crashes. Not often, not badly, but it does occasionally die. Internet connections fail. Stuff happens. And when it does, you''re in a group.. that now has to wait ten minutes for you to come back. This is not a trivial issue.

and I''m rapidly becoming accustomed to fighting other people on my side to be allowed to get credit for my quests. You can''t do anything at all without finding two other groups trying to do the same thing. Imagine actually being able to do quests without waiting in a line, having people killsteal from you, having to use killstealing tactics (use of instacast spells to make sure you get the first bit of damage in..) to get credit for the mobs whose respawn you waited for.. I''m tired of fighting tooth and nail just to complete one quest.

Also, by the way, higher populations doesn''t necessarily translate to better prices at the auction house. I haven''t heard it from GWJers, but I suspect it''s because I haven''t asked.. a lot of people report that the auction houses are flooded with goods being sold under cost by people who just want to raise their tradeskills. More people does not necessarily make a better market.

The ""queue sucks/who cares about the queue"" argument is really really tired. Seriously.

The first few weeks of Retail I thought we should move but I think things have stabilized as best as they could. Are things perfect? No, but there''s a good market for items and the problems on Blackhand are happening everywhere, not just on the high-population servers.

One interesting thing about some of the lag spikes that are occurring is that they appear to be happening to all the servers within a Data Center, not just to specific servers. Several times now, I was on the phone with a friend (that lives in a different state btw) who was playing on a different East Coast server while I was playing on Blackhand and we both experienced a significant lag spike simultaneously. Now, I''m not a networking-guru but since all the Central/East Coast server are being ran within the same Data Center in Virginia maybe that''s part of the problem. Heck, maybe that''s the reason why only select servers will be down for 16 hours on Thursday. They may be transferring the server backups to a second facility to help handle the load.

Just some thoughts. We return you to your regularly scheduled Murlock killing already in progress.

But the wait queues I''ve run up against when loggin in later in the evening have been too small to be significant (<60), with only a minute or 2 wait to get in.

Compared to no queues on proudmore.
And if they do allow server transfers, how do the people that are on other servers get to blackhand(Me and my small group for instance)? No way they allow that and if they do i would imagine it would make the queue problem worse not better.
(I can''t imagine people leaving in droves for the same reason you guys are listing).

I haven''t voted because my answer is (of course) ""it depends."" If we can be sure to get the entire guild moved and if they give the option to anyone one any server (as long as the destination server is low population) then a bonus that no one has mentioned yet would be the consolidation of the entire GWJ community. If those who scattered to the winds when Blackhand was a PITA would be able to rejoin the group then I''d vote yes. Heck, I''d probably still vote yes just b/c I (probably naively) think that a lower population benefits the more casual player (mostly for reasons similar to the ones Svlad outlined above).

I vote no. I have very, very few problems with Blackhand these days.

If those who scattered to the winds when Blackhand was a PITA would be able to rejoin the group then I''d vote yes.

This is what I was trying to say but Grumpy has put it down a lot better.

"phragged" wrote:
If those who scattered to the winds when Blackhand was a PITA would be able to rejoin the group then I''d vote yes.

This is what I was trying to say but Grumpy has put it down a lot better. :)

Thanks. Just to make sure my other point (which wasn''t in bold) was made/emphasized, it is much more likely that the entire GWJ community would have to transfer to a low population server as opposed to them allowing anyone to transfer into a high population server like Blackhand. Heck, I''d like to see them bring up a new server or two (or more) and use it only for transfer characters (i.e. not allow any new accounts to join for a couple weeks).

That being said, I''m sure they would take some measures (e.g. cap it at 10,000 players per server) to make sure that the destination servers - whether they be brand new or existing low-pop servers (Are they any that aren''t PVP? I don''t think so.) - didn''t become deluged by transfers and suddenly become high-pop servers themselves... which is why I created a thread similar to this (without the poll - good idea) last week:

"Grumpicus" wrote:

if it happens and if it''s a limited time offer ... it may be good to know in advance what we''d like to do.

Edit for spelling: emphasized

"Strekos" wrote:

The ""queue sucks/who cares about the queue"" argument is really really tired. Seriously.

But still plenty valid.

I voted No.

"Flux" wrote:
"Strekos" wrote:

The ""queue sucks/who cares about the queue"" argument is really really tired. Seriously.

But still plenty valid.

I voted No.

Seriously, why not? In addition to the potential benefits already mentioned (maybe less lag, perhaps less competition, less pre-game and in-game queues, potential consolidation of the GWJ community, etc.) what are the negatives? Do you high-level types have reputations established with the server population at large that you don''t want to lose? If that''s the case, it''s an extremely valid argument but considering that 1) I''m a lowbie and 2) I mostly group with GWJ when I group, it''s not something that I have to consider and is, hence, an honest question.

Edit: I voted yes.

Personally I have no problem moving but I''m not going if no one else is.

Another thing to consider is that many of us have established friendships with people outside the guild, and I imagine this is especially true for GWJ folks who are not on Blackhand. It would be nice to get everybody together on one server, but I don''t think it''s going to happen at this point - too much time has passed.

Do we know if Blizzard will even be allowing such transfers? It seems like we''re arguing in the shadows of some pretty big ""if''s"" here. Not that I don''t enjoy arguing, of course.

The are working on character transfers and it should happen ""soon""(according to the forums).

what are the negatives? Do you high-level types have reputations established with the server population at large that you don''t want to lose? If that''s the case, it''s an extremely valid argument but considering that 1) I''m a lowbie and 2) I mostly group with GWJ when I group, it''s not something that I have to consider and is, hence, an honest question.

I''m a lvl 40, not exactly as prestigious as what Gaald has obtained (48 or higher I believe), and I don''t have a reputation. I''m just another Night Elf Hunter, there are thousands of us running around and there are definite negatives to the economy and player-base when you move to a lower-population server.

The more players on a server the more likely I am able to...

1) Sell my goods (loot items, crafted items) at a fair, competitive price on the Auction House. Competition isn''t a bad thing. Everyone''s seen those auctions in which a player is selling an uncommon/rare item for an insane amount of money. Inevitably, a cheaper, comparable item will go up and the seller wil be forced to compensate (lower his price) for the changes to the market and the consumer wins. The flip-side of this is that with fewer players online, the less goods that will be available which will drive up the price and make it harder for players to acquire better items.

2) Purchase tradeskill items gathered by others, such as herbs and leathers. Do you really want to hunt beasts for hours just to get leather that you can cheaply purchase in bulk on the AH? Yes you can go through the chore and skin it but dropping a few silver on some stacks can make tradeskills a lot easier to work on.

3) And the inverse of this is that players of all levels are crafting. By being a gatherer you can sell stacks far easier when there''s people looking for them.

Ok, so I ranted about the AH and the need for providers and consumers. There are other things to consider, like grouping. I rarely group and I usually stick with GWJ friends but there are times when I want to travel to an instance and no one is available or high enough level. There are also times when your group may be missing a niche role, such as a healer or tank. Lower populations reduce the chances of maximizing your group.

Stability, lag and cues are only part of this equation. Wouldn''t it be nice to run a quest and not have 27 people camping the spawn? Maybe it''s just me but when the mobs cave looks like a KOA, it kinda spoils the immersion.

I''m not sure what time the rest of you are playing but I can''t even begin to count the number of time an Elite has been ninja''d over in Redridge. Westfall''s not quite as bad but it''s close.

Keep in mind plenty of people will be transferring off of Blackhand for many of the reasons you guys are listing. I expect it will even things out a bit across the board.

I can see both sides of the argument here. Certis brings up a good point that a lot of the fish will be jumping to a different lake if transfers are implemented.

Queue notwithstanding, I do find the overcamping incredibly frustrating, at least at the lower levels. As I''ve been fiddling around trying to decide exactly what to play, I haven''t gotten high enough to really understand what the situation is for higher levels. But I''ve always been someone to prefer lower populations and less crowd. I generally stick with a small group of people and really don''t interact across the entire player base. Reputation means squat to me and I think the AH will scale appropriately to a smaller server. Even a smaller server in WoW will still be huge.. it''s not like we''d magically find the server with 200 players that all play on foreign schedules.

Long story short (too late) I voted yes, but it''s not something I really view as gamebreaking if we stay on Blackhand. If you''re having fun now, you''ll have fun regardless of what server you''re on, so long as you''re with friends/friendly peoples.

"Grumpicus" wrote:
"Flux" wrote:
"Strekos" wrote:

The ""queue sucks/who cares about the queue"" argument is really really tired. Seriously.

But still plenty valid.

I voted No.

Seriously, why not? In addition to the potential benefits already mentioned (maybe less lag, perhaps less competition, less pre-game and in-game queues, potential consolidation of the GWJ community, etc.) what are the negatives? Do you high-level types have reputations established with the server population at large that you don''t want to lose? If that''s the case, it''s an extremely valid argument but considering that 1) I''m a lowbie and 2) I mostly group with GWJ when I group, it''s not something that I have to consider and is, hence, an honest question.

Edit: I voted yes.

First, I didnt'' know that level 45 was a ""high level type"", whatever that means.
Second, the economy is currently better on our server, as compared to GG''s for example.
Third, I found out my old EQ guild is actually on Blackhand. It was pure dumb luck that Blackhand was the server they picked. I like to group with them from time to time and just chat. So, I wouldn''t leave Blackhand because of the friends there.
Last, I agree with Certis, the servers will all be close to equally balanced with a move, so moving doesn''t necessarily mean you are getting a better situation.

I am one of those guys who has not yet had the chance to play with anyone from GWJ due to the fact that I could not get on Blackhand on Launch Day.

My original vote was YES move the guild, but after reading the other responses, I changed my mind. As it was pointed-out, the servers are going to balance themselves out, and if they don''t, there is always the option to move at a later time. My vote is now NO. When the time comes, I will move my characters to Blackhand to be with you folks.

Having said all that, I am astonished that Blackhand has the problems it does! I did not realize that the queue still happens at all. On Bloodhoof, we have a high population but none of the bad stuff. Maybe a little lag every now and again, but no queues and mission camping like you are describing. You really have been getting the sh*t end of the stick there. I won''t be moving my characters if that keeps up!

Here''s hoping I am grouping with you all soon!

"CodexMatt" wrote:

there is always the option to move at a later time. ... When the time comes, I will move my characters to Blackhand to be with you folks.

Don''t count on it. You may be correct but I''ve not seen anything that indicates 1) that they will be letting people move to high-pop servers (like Blackhand) or 2) that it will be anything more than a one-time-only limited-time offer. This is one time where I actually hope I''m wrong but...

I see queues in the 200+ range all the time during the week. I''ve had a nightmare of a time trying to level in areas around where the AH is because the lag is insane. It''s unplayable in some zones. Seriously, unplayable. At the highest level I''ve attained (28), I''ve been ninja camped on more elite quests than I can count because it''s just so damn crowded.

And yes, there are people on my friend''s list that aren''t GWJ, but I could live without them. If the whole guild were moving, I would go joyfully, happily and with great and passionate abandon.

Personally I would prefer not to move. Been there done that with EQ, just more hassle than it is worth, and what'' to guarantee the whole guild will get moved? Plus, what are they going to charge you for that service?

What Grumpicus said...

''nuff said

I''m pretty surprised that so many people are convinced things will be better if only we could move to a new server. I guess I''m a pessimist, but we could move and the lag and queue and Alliance overcrowding could all be worse, or perhaps find a whole new set of annoyances -- and we''re not going to get a chance to hit ""undo"".

In FFXI, they allowed a server move to a newly setup server to appease the many people who thought the existing ones were overcrowded or too Japanese or too established. There was just as much complaining afterwards by the people who moved, if not more. I certainly give more credit to GWJ folks than general MMORPG forum denizens, but I think it''s still a good example of moves not being a panacea.

I voted no, but will go if everyone goes.

I voted no and will stay where I am unless you move to a server on mountain time. I will not do another central, and ESPECIALLY not eastern.