Lately, and by that I mean over the last two years or so, I've gained a whole lot of female freinds. It's a standard geometric sequence: girls know girls, who know girls. Do you know what the most shocking thing about all this exposure was?
How God damned DANGEROUS they are.
Now, this is Canada. I don't know anybody who owns a handgun, and I only know three people who own firearms of any kind. However, just about every single solitary girl my age, who I know, owns some form of pepper spray. Now, I have my doubts about how useful it actually would be, sitting there in a purse, if some nut grabbed little Candace on the Skytrain (I just shuddered a bit...) but hey, it can't hurt, right?
Here's the thing: In classic human-being style, it's begun to escalate. Now it's not pepper spray, it's bear mace. BEAR MACE. You know, the crap that makes your EYES BLEED? If you get off a good shot of that stuff in an enclosed area, every person in it will be running for the door, screaming because of the pain in their eyes and sinuses. Hell, I have no idea whether the stuff is even legal or not. I suppose it is, though it shouldn't be.
And there's my problem. I'm against allowing the average citizen to carry concealed firearms (say, in a purse,) and I'm just as against this stuff. I'm well aware that a young girl, maybe dressed up for a club, will feel very exposed and vulnerable walking down the street at 2AM, from the Skytrain to her house. I really do sympathize. But at what point do we draw the line which says that women, even given their relative physical frailty to men, can not be allowed to employ whatever means they see fit, just to feel safe?
It's not so much that I fear for the eyesight of the poor rapist, it's that I fear for MY eyesight. Due to the comments I've heard out of some of these 19 year old girls, I almost hesitate to acknowledge the existence of a lone woman, passing me on the street at night. Some of the crap I've heard come out of their mouths make me genuinely nervous.
I wouldn''t worry overly much Morrolan, the law tends to look unkindly on the unjustified use of personal chemical weaponary.
If one were used out of spite in an attack against your person, it would probably be treated with the equivalency of an assault with a weapon. As a result it is likely to be an indictable offense with a minimum sentence.
Furthermore in a civil suit, the long term discomfort effects of chemical sprays are likely to mean that damages and consequential loss of earnings remedies would be fairly high.
Just make sure the person who threatens you knows that a slap round the face far more profitable for all involved.
In the meantime, try to travel in a group. :p
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Churchill
First of all, I knew Canada was some mystical fairy land; but TRAINS in the SKY? That''s just... preposterous. Or... is it?
Oh, about the mace. Yes, it is a silly arms race that''s going on. I''m not a fan of the Agent Orange and Napalm existing in purses either. But, when was the last time you saw someone use it? If it was recently, go turn yourself in
Also remember that those same people drive cars, which are far more dangerous as far as I''m concerned. So it''s important to keep it in perspective.
So, <sigh>, I suppose everyone has a right to carry it -- much as it pains me to say that. Illium, I hope you''re right that the use of this stuff out of malice carries a hefty penalty. When did everyone forget that a swift kick to the groin will stop any man dead in his tracks? And nobody needs to reach into their purse for that.
That doesn''t always work. A few women have tried that on me (through no justified act of my doing) and found out how that turns me from ""insulting asshole guy"" into ""physically violent guy.""
Let them carry it, but if they use it unjustified put thier asses in jail.
Better to reign in P&C than serve in Everything Else. - Tanglebones
Free-to-play games are free so that the people who pay money for them have someone to play them with. -Cloquette
Hmm, so they needed their bear spray at that point? I meant they should use the groin kick more in cases of ""help I''m getting raped"" rather than cases of ""I can''t believe you eyed my sister like that.""
And this is Canada right? Isn''t that the land of gum drops and candy canes that everyone owns a gun and leaves their door unlocked?? Or did Micheal Moore deceive me?
Seriously has there been a series of rapes/attacks around Toronto?? Or does this go along the lines that everyone in the US thinks they are going to get robbed, thus the need for bolt locks/alarm systems/AK-47''s in their homes.
"Nation, I've always said that rainbows are just God's way of frowning at gay people." Stephen Colbert
I was in a bar last fall when some girl got pissed off and sprayed something at someone. (I know it was a girl because a friend of mine saw her spray it. Granted, he may have had a little more to do with it, I have no idea.) She cleared out the whole bar, there was puking and screaming and crying... it was bedlam... if someone did something like that on a subway car I couldn''t imagine what would happen... I think anyone who carries that stuff around should be sure not to play around with it, maybe they should be sprayed with it just so they understand how miserable it is.
|Steam|
Had a friend who did professional bodyguard and SWAT type training (not the hackneyed two week course rent-a-cop thing; instead the licensed to carry a weapon, martial arts training, etc. level) and work. He was peppersprayed as part of the training, talked about how he kind of got used to it, what it felt like etc.
He also told me about a party of friends he was at where everyone was curious and wanted to know ""how bad could it really be."" His story of spraying a tiny amount onto a nearby wall (with everyone''s permission) ended similarly to yours; everybody outside in the snow in the middle of winter coughing and gagging.
I was in a movie theatre once when I was around 14. Some jackass sprayed mace into the ventilation shaft of the AC.
Suffice to say at first I was wondering why the hell everyone was coughing during the movie. Then I wondered why *I* was. Then I remembered the smell (I''ve been sprayed before...)
Better to reign in P&C than serve in Everything Else. - Tanglebones
Free-to-play games are free so that the people who pay money for them have someone to play them with. -Cloquette
I''ve been pepper-sprayed. Not a pleasant experience and it will definitely knock you down a bit but you can rage right through a full blast if you''re angry enough.
Anyone who posted in this thread is a racist.*
*Except me. - Certis
I once maced a raging drunken meathead in a subway car. The car was almost empty, so noone complained about the fallout really. Anyway it was better than putting up with that dumbass.
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I bought the bear mace for my ex wife...she is often with my three kids...and I''m interested in their protection...if someone messes with them...i hope she sprays the hell out of them...and if others are affected...my apologies...but my kids take precedence...no ifs/ands/buts.
Someone using mace in a bar...jail time is called for unless the dude was trying to do her on the bar...if he''s drunk and bothering you...call the manager/bartender/bouncer...
I''m all for mace...protection should come first for men and women...carry what you feel you need...
Use it unjustified...go directly to jail/huge fine...but if you need it...use the whole can!
And when my daughters grow up...you better believe I''ll teach them the ''When in doubt, pull the pepper spray out! - and shout!''
Booo-yahhhhh!
Whatever happend to the time when people trusted each other and didn''t freak out at a simple ""hello""?
I have major issues with your philosophy... When in doubt, chill out and everything will probably be fine.
*maces scoli*
"PEACE ON EARTH. GOOD WILL TO MEN. PUBLIC SHELTER. ADMISSION 50¢"
*gets pissed at being maced for no reason and proceeds to attempt to kill Morrolan*
I didn''t personally see it being used, but one gang member bear maced another just outside the restaurant where I work a few weeks ago. The door was open at the time, and it nearly cleared the room. My manager replaced about ten meals due to them becoming inedible.
That stuff is vile. I can''t see how anyone could mace an attacker with it and not be affected themselves.
Scoli...
plan to teach them to differentiate...using when being mugged or raped is different than using when being harassed or yelled at... *in theory*
I''m sure they are trained (assuming they get training of course) to mace and run (down the street, not completely away, legalities and all that.)
At least I would.
Better to reign in P&C than serve in Everything Else. - Tanglebones
Free-to-play games are free so that the people who pay money for them have someone to play them with. -Cloquette
got maced for no other reason than them wanting to see if it worked, it felt like someone had taken habeneros and rubbed them all over my face, in my eyes, everywhere. When I went to shower, it just got worse. Ick.
Also... my hometown, in the US mind you, is unlocked 99.9% of the time. Our front door''s lock is a bolt lock. (the one, two groves, slides over, locks, etc). Easy to break through if you wanted, hell, the door knob doesn''t even have a latch, to keep the door closed you need to use the bolt lock. The rest of the doors have 90 year old locking systems, except for the back door. That has a good lock, but who cares, you''ll just go in one of the other three doors.
I think people need to stop feeling so threatened, I don''t always agree w/ moore, but he brings up a good point, the media, and the country in general (i''m speaking of the US), spends way too much on the ""being attacked"" the ""fear"" that we have of everything. I mean, I heard a national news network (something either like CNN or CNN) use the phrase ""could a tsunami target our shores?"" TARGET? man alive... there will be no targeting, could it happen to us, sure... but target, thats a word of fear, like, it was a terrorist... ugh... anyways </rant>
Having been a water polo player who has practiced against the girl''s team, I will say that there is no need for many women to carry mace. They are plenty vicious all on their own.
This may be terribly old-fashioned of me, but there is always the option of asking for an escort should you be female and absolutely have to walk through the city streets at a late hour wearing practically nothing. Are gentlemen no longer offerring to do this sort of thing?
Don't be saucy with me, Bernaise. - Count DeMonet
FalseGravity - My first blog.
Not after countless women believing in extreme womens rights movement ideaologies started scornfully rejecting such things.
Better to reign in P&C than serve in Everything Else. - Tanglebones
Free-to-play games are free so that the people who pay money for them have someone to play them with. -Cloquette
I get the feeling that these women just buy mace and think that the presence of this object in their purse is going to reduce their chances of being assaulted.
I don''t know, maybe indirectly, the false confidence it provides, as long as they believe it, will affect their posture and ward away a potential attacker who is looking for easy prey.
It _may_ help in that department. But that is not likely to apply to everyone.
What use is having a weapon if you''re assaulted before you can draw it, or you''re stopped from drawing it ?
An assailant who is looking for a victim is going to choose the circumstances. He is going to set up the distance from which he attacks, the place where it happens, and he is going to be fast.
Reaching for a weapon when you''re in the middle of an assault is already too late. Sure, you may, but most likely you may not.
Your hand will be stopped, you will be parted with your purse, knocked to the ground and/or immobilized in some other way.
Especially if you''re a woman who has been pre-selected by a stronger man who selected you exactly because you''re so much smaller than him physically.
Most of these people are cowards who are looking for the surest thing.
The larger the physical difference, the better.
The main thing that can save a person, man or woman, from sudden physical assault, is being aware of their everyday environment.
It takes a little practice, but eventually anyone can develop a certain 360 degree circle of awareness.
It doesn''t take any physical training, it just takes patience and observation and it is the most important factor that can save your life.
Your ears tell you when someone is approaching from behind, so do the reflections on store windows.
Glancing behind you occasionally never hurt anyone.
Keep soft focus on whats in front of you without actually focusing on anything specific. That way you can notice movement in the periphery of your eyes, and your viewing field is significantly expanded.
There''s a certain distance in this ""bubble of awareness"" I speak of.
It is the radius.
The ABSOLUTE MINIMUM radius of this sphere is within distance of a footstep+a hand reach.
When you recognize someone as a potential threat (who is likely testing you), keep that distance.
When they violate the bubble, they betray their intentions, and yet they have to take at least one step forward before they can get their hands on you.
Eventually as you walk down the street you will sense the intent of people who are considering violating your safety sphere.
When you do, you will simply walk around the point where yours and ""presumably theirs"" spheres sort of rub their perimeters on each other but never interact.
Once again, this gives you a chance to escape if they betray their.intent by directly closing distance.
This is all done while walking, and does not make you look paranoid.
What especially baffles me is attractive half-dressed girls/women jogging in dangerous areas with headphones on, staring blankly ahead of themselves.
What a perfect target. Are you LOOKING to get raped ?
I am not a woman, but when I walk and see a guy using a trajectory which has an intent to approach me, I start to evade.
Eventually he will approach me anyway, the question is whether he will be willing to violate the sphere of ""one-step"" and put himself into the reaching range, or whether his intentions are non-hostile, at which point he can talk to me from the perimeter without trying to close distance.
Some examples of aware (or as some people would call it, paranoid - but I call it ""aware"") behavior:
_____
Just recently I was walking toward this fine restaurant named Jack in the Box when a homeless man started to close the distance.
Yes I know they spend this money on drugs and alcohol, but what the hell, they''re homeless.
So I give him two bucks.
I leave Jack in the Box, and as it commonly happens, he started following me back to my car. When I passed by him I saw him turn, shook my head ""no"", and then I heard his footsteps behind me.
When I reached the car I immediately put my food on top of the car to free my hands, my car keys were already in my right hand, and I turned around just to see the guy stumbling past my safety radius.
I immediately extended my right arm and proclaimed loudly ""Keep your distance. I just gave you two bucks."".
He leaned forward and I repeated this warning two or three more times until he finally got it.
He backed up, did an old-fashioned bow(?), and went away.
The important parts of this interaction were:
a) I didnt try to open the car and stuff the food in there because there was no time. But hands needed to be free NOW.
b) I took out car keys BEFORE reaching the car, because they can be used as an immediate stabbing weapon.
c) The extended arm was a preemptive advantage. If he stepped further his face was immediately walking into my fist which has a hard object in it (keys). The first strike would be mine, and it would hurt. Moreso if I used it as a stabbing weapon.
d) I didn''t insult him or provoke him. If I insulted him he might''ve ""had"" to attack me to prove his worth, but this way he had a way out without ""losing his honor"".
_____
Another one,also with a homeless man. I seem to attract them because I always give them money and some of them happen to act ""intimidating"" at the time, so they think I gave them money because they ""intimidated"" me, not because I want them to have an extra beer.
Several years ago, I was standing in line to a high-class restaurant named Burger King.
A stocky, shorter homeless man came up and asked me for a dollar which he needed for ""the bus"".
Without question, I gave him a dollar.
But then he continued standing there and keeping an idle conversation while trying to look threatening or something.
I kept it along, until he realized that all his ""threat factor"" was being ignored.
He started getting antsy and sarcastic ""Oh yeah, thanks for the dollar, NOW I can really catch that bus !"".
I told him, ""there''s your bus. You can go now.""
He started asking me for more money.
I refused.
This was not a good situation and I was on alert, because I was standing in line and he was inside my circle.
But I was also inside of his !
I was monitoring his every movement, and the moment his eyes lit up and fists went up into a pseudo-boxing stance, I immediately made contact with his arms and continued ""helping"" this upward-outside movement, which resulted in a simple but effective elbow control which sent him stumbling outside, muttering.
Then he quickly calmed down and shortly left.
The whole interaction was so casual to an outside observer that they would''ve missed both the bullying entirely, and if they blinked they would''ve missed the attempted assault as well.
Shihonage is right about awareness. When I see women walking with their heads down - looking like prey - I''ve got this urge to tell them to walk with their head up and to scan the surroundings.
And then that urge gives way to those ""other"" urges ...
Don't be saucy with me, Bernaise. - Count DeMonet
FalseGravity - My first blog.
Yeah, but part of this is because of the five billion urban legends masquerading as researched fact as to how to keep yourself safe, most of which are contradictory.
""Make eye contact, look aggressive""
""Keep your head down, look like part of the crowd""
""When you''re in the city, don''t make eye contact with anyone, just keep walking""
""If you feel threatened, stop and look challenging""
Blah blah blah. I fully understand why some people don''t get it. I don''t get it. My personal theory is that in a bad situation I will scream, flap my arms like an owl, and attempt some sort of Danielsan crane technique from the Karate Kid. The crane technique will fail, most likely leaving me sprawled on the ground. This will not be a planned reaction, but most likely what I will look like from the crippling fear that will overtake me.
Most of the ones you listed are contradictory to common sense, thats for sure
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ is your friend.