WoW Mages

@Ducki: excellent post! I can''t count how many heals I''ve missed b/c the target ran out of range.

Your 2 simple rules will increase and mage''s(and also their party''s) effectiveness 4-fold. I exaggerate, but not by much.

@Warlock: I can see where the solo vs. group dilemma presents a potential problem for mages. When solo, the damage must be maxed, while aggro control doesn''t matter. In groups of course, threat and mana reduction is a higher priority.

Not having a mage, I''m not sure what to say in regards to that, but as a Paladin I can say ""don''t forget to ask for a pally''s threat-reducing blessing"". The name eludes me atm, but ""most"" pallies ""should"" know what it is.

Cast Arcane Intelligence on everyone in your party.

Yes please. 99% of players want this buff. It REALLY kills me when I cast my stamina buff on mages, expecting them to reciprocate with a Intell buff and they reply with ""ty"". Gimme the smartie buff damn it!!

Pass out water and food to all of your party members.

Priests burn just as much mana as you. Assume we always want you to share your drinks. If you give some drinks to your priest, you won''t need to give food to anyone.

Not having a mage, I''m not sure what to say in regards to that, but as a Paladin I can say ""don''t forget to ask for a pally''s threat-reducing blessing"". The name eludes me atm, but ""most"" pallies ""should"" know what it is.

Yeah dude. Blessing of Salvation on you, Seal of Fury on me. Great combo. I don''t think Paladins use it enough. Also, knowing when in the battle to cast Blessing of Protection on your primary healer (or main tank, depending on the situation) helps a great deal.

Woah. Threadjack.

Anyways. Here''sa link to a spec that''s basically what I had in mind. I like it. It will be mine.

Sorry this is going to be so long, I''m just throwing stuff down as I think of it.

I don''t understand why some mages are stingy with drinks? I conjure them 20 at a time, why do I care if I give them away? I always give them to whoever asks, if you''re grouping with me, just speak up.

Once you figure it out, threat management is not that difficult. Sure, sometimes I have fun when with a higher level group and play at tanking, like last night when we had four people with an average of 40 in Gnomeregan, I blasted whatever I felt like and I don''t think anyone died once just because it was easy for us. However, when I need to watch threat, here is how it usually goes for me:

-Let tanker engage
-Watch the enemy health bar until it is down a tick
-Cast Fireball if I don''t really care if he comes after me, otherwise cast Arcane Missiles since I have 40% threat reduction there and the damage spread out over time.
-Keep casting Fireball/Arcane Missiles until enemy down to 25%
-At that point cast Pyroblast or Scorch depending on how stingy I want to be with mana.

With 40% reduced AM threat as long as the tank has already engaged I can sit there and cast that all day long and never get aggro.

Honestly, I hardly ever use Blizzard or Flamestrike any more. Once you get improved Arcane Explosion with your talents it is instacast with no cooldown. I can spam them for group damage, at level 39 they are dealing over 140 each. The only downside is it takes 250 mana each and because you can cast them so fast it drains the pool quickly. Blizzard might have a better damage/mana ratio, but definitely not better damage/time, it is also a channelling spell which means any hit interrupts you.

Frost is better for groups, fire better for solo I think. Or maybe not better, just different. Fire will kill faster, but frost will be able to kill more in a row without drinking. Any mage that doesn''t put at least 18 points into Arcane is crazy.

fang, I think it is a mistake not to use Fireball, unless you are going for a frost specced mage? Fireball is your best damage dealer, and it is more mana efficient than Arcane Missiles, although it does generate more threat, not a worry if soloing. Mana efficiency doesn''t really come into play when fighting one mob, it''s the aftermath. Can you go right on and fight another mob and then another? Do you have to rest after three? Or four? Or five? In instances it gets old real quick having to make the group wait on you after every third guy, that''s why the stress on efficiencies, especially once you get 30+. You should never be using your AoE spells when only fighting one mob, there is almost always a single target spell that does it better. As far as 3-4 elites at the same time, what are you talking about? If they are even level elites with your group and you try to take on 3-4 with a group of 4, someone is dying, and it ain''t the elites.

neuro, if a mage is actually using their melee weapon, they''re dumb. I have a staff just for the int/spirit buffs. If I run out of mana and my potion or Evocation cooldown isn''t up, I''ll just stand and wait for my mana to regen if my group is doing ok (I get about 60 regen a sec), or I''ll start using my wand. You can have both a staff and wand equipped at the same time.

ducki, if a mage is in a group and get''s aggro and doesn''t want it, cast a Frost Nova! Just freeze them in place, then back up and let the tanks regain aggro of the mob while they are frozen. As long as the mage does not attack them, the tank should just have to hit them once or twice to get their attention.

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Johnny: I love reading your posts because we''re both up there in levels, but have some contradicting views, it''s always interesting, gives me things to think about.

1) Before firing your opening salvo, cast mana shield. Yes, I know it drains your mana when you get hit, but it also keeps you alive and keeps your spells from getting interupted. Mana shield is your best defense.

I only use mana shield in certain cases. I have to be fighting against melee and be close to death. My mana is so much more important to me than health, using mana shield in every fight would be waste I think. I have to rest more often because I''m out of mana than health, but my high spirit also helps a lot with the health regen, so maybe it''s up to your gear. However, I do think it is important enough in those life saving situations that I spent the two talent points to get it improved.

2) Use polymorph, early and often. I polymorph all the time. I''d rather have that additional enemy wandering around eating grass than hitting me at the same time as his buddy. Two monsters hitting you means your mana shield goes away twice as fast and your spells get interupted twice as often. Polymorph is also a great pulling technique. Poly one enemy at the edge of a group and you have a good chance of not pulling the rest of the group. When it changes back, it will come to you. If you do pull its friends by using polymorph, they come running and the initial monster stays behind, allowing you to use your area effect spells without fear of breaking the polymorph on the first monster.

I totally agree with this, too many times I see mages not using poly at all.

3) Polymorph spell casters first. They, like you, do a ton of damage from range. Polymorph them and kill their melee friends before dealing with the spellcaster.

Absolutely. Plus then your tanks don''t have to spend time running over to the spell caster to grab aggro. My only complaint for the tanks, when you kill the melee, don''t just stand there, go get the sheep! If you''re below half health, no prob, sit and eat and I''ll just sheep them again, but don''t start looting or just standing around.

4) When fighting spellcasters, don''t forget the other spells at your disposal. Counterspell (level 24) is my favoirte spell. I love to see the other spellcaster waving his glowing hands around and then (figuratively) kicking him in the nuts. It just ruins their whole day. Also, know what the enemy casts and use protective spells appropriately. If the enemy throws fireballs, use your fire ward. Ditto for ice spells/frost ward. No need to take damage you don''t have too.

You know, I have not really used counterspell at all, I always though of it as a PvP spell, but I can see where it would be useful now, I''ll give it a try next time I''m on. How much threat does it generate? I also haven''t really used the wards much, except the fire ward against some dragons. They''re not even on my hotbars any more. I''ll have to remember them.

5) Amplify magic/Dampen magic are friends. If you are not facing enemy spellcasters, cast amplify magic on yourself and your party. It makes healing spells so much more effective. If you are facing spellcasters, use dampen magic to reduce the effectiveness of their spells on your party. Dampen magic makes your ward spells and mana shield last that much longer as well.

Now these are useless spells if I ever saw them, and from what I''ve read other people agree. Sure, you can cast them on your party if you''re not fighting casters at that moment, but what about when you move on to the next mob and they are casters, now you''ve just opened yourself up. Plus the improved gives your heal an extra 50 max. Big deal. When you''re healing people with 2000+ hit points, that extra 50 is not really worth the mana and the risk exposure to enemy casters. Granted, I have not used these much, maybe the experience is better than how it reads.

6) Cast Arcane Intelligence on everyone in your party. It gives a boost to the size of everyone''s mana pool, and increases the chances of critical hits, even for melee oriented characters.

I did not think the Arcane Intelligence buff had any impact on people without mana bars? I''ve asked a high-level rogue and warrior and they''ve both told me intelligence does nothing for them. I thought agility affects your melee critical hit chance, intelligence only affects your casting crit chance? I always give it to anyone with a mana bar, the other people, no.

7) Pass out water and food to all of your party members. It really reduces downtime.

Do you do this proactive in your groups, or wait for people to ask? Just wondering what you''ve found works best.

8) Frost nova then blink. Roots your enemies in place and then gets you out of harm''s way very quickly.

In an effort for mana conservation, I don''t usually blink away unless I am running. Do you use this a lot? I frost nova all the time, but then I just back up instead of blinking. The 220 mana cost for the blink is not worth it to me while in combat. But blink is the ultimate get-away spell from bad situations. :)

9) Clearcasting is a wonderful thing. If your talents are spent in such a way as to enable clearcasting, always make sure you cast your most expensive spell with the clearcast. Don''t waste a clearcast on something piddly like a scorch. Cast Arcane Missiles on a single enemy or Blizzard on a group to get the most bang for your buck.

Totally right, as soon as I see that little icon, my mouse hits AM!

10) If you run out of mana and the battle isn''t almost over, don''t hoard your Evocation. The Evocation talent refills my mana bar to basically full in 8 seconds flat. With a 10 minute cooldown, you might be tempted to hold off on using it. Don''t. Use that puppy and finish off the battle in style. Mana shield yourself again and then go for broke with your most damaging spells.

I tend to conserve mine. I like to save it until I''m in the middle of a battle and run out of mana, then frost nova everyone, step back, get Evocation and I''m back in business. Or if I''m only battling 1-2 at a time, then I just use it as a substitute for drinking when the timer comes up, helps with the downtime.

I flat out refuse to group with any Mage that doesnt use Polymorph liberly.

We booted one Mage out of our guild recently simply because of that reason.. despite everyone telling him over and over again to use it.

Its one of the most powerful spells in the game.

Perhaps too powerful as it allows many groups to hit high level areas without a Priest and just a backup Healer.

Its one of the most powerful spells in the game.

Perhaps too powerful as it allows many groups to hit high level areas without a Priest and just a backup Healer.

Yeah dude. 20 seconds is a CRAZY amount of time, at level 10, for me to be able to make a mob go away. I don''t know if the time gets longer, but even in the higher levels, it shouldn''t take a good group more than 20 seconds to take out a mob and move onto the next one.

Yes, it''s 30 seconds at level 30 I believe, don''t remember exactly when I got it, somewhere in the 30s. I don''t think it''s that overbalanced. It allows me to take two mobs out of combat by chaining it back and forth, but that effectively takes me out of combat too except for an instant pyroblast here and there.

It does get longer. I just got Rank 2 and it is 30 seconds I believe.

I dont know what to say. With 3 rogues and a priest, our party several times took on packs of deadmine elites. 3 at a time, I would help basically each rogue solo an elite that was at most 2 levels below.

I would never use Blizzard or Flamestrike against a single monster.

Fireball I have used to open with sparingly. However, the casting time plus the little extra DoT time is almost the same time as casting 2 arcane missiles.

I didnt know people would get that upset about not using polymorph. Ill try to use it more when grouping. Im just too afraid groupmates will repeatedly attack the sheep.

I love blink. Frost Nova can get resisted. The more targets angry at you the better chance one of them is going to resist or daze you. Blink is your ultimate friend. Dont get me wrong I always frost nova. Sometimes it hasnt recycled yet and blink comes to the rescue again.

And I definitely frost nova in groups alot. One situation is the one mentioned above. If Ive drawn too much aggro, FN and then back up. Another situation arises if the healer has drawn too much aggro. A third is if fighting more than one runner.

"LeapingGnome" wrote:

Yes, it''s 30 seconds at level 30 I believe, don''t remember exactly when I got it, somewhere in the 30s. I don''t think it''s that overbalanced. It allows me to take two mobs out of combat by chaining it back and forth, but that effectively takes me out of combat too except for an instant pyroblast here and there.

Dont get me wrong..I like it fine the way it is

Im not calling for the nerf bat..

at least..not until the Battlegrounds go in haha

Fireball I have used to open with sparingly. However, the casting time plus the little extra DoT time is almost the same time as casting 2 arcane missiles.

This is just wrong. First, if you''re soloing, open with a frost bolt to do the slow, then hit with fireballs, you can usually get two in before the enemy reaches you if you''ve invested the talent points in quick casting.

Second, AM is a 5 second channel. At rank 3 (lvl 24), it costs 235 mana and does 56 damage per second for 5 seconds. This equals 280 damage, 235 mana, 5 second casting.

Fireball at lvl 24 costs 140 mana with a 2.5 second cast with improved talents, otherwise 3 sec cast. It does 140-190 damage plus an additional 20 over 8 sec. Forget the additional 20, take the average and that 165 damage, 140 mana, 2.5 sec. In 5 seconds for AM, you can cast two fireballs for more damage, plus you get a chance to stun and the small DoT.

Arcane Missiles are good once you get the talents for non-interruption. Then if an enemy is beating on you and your frost nova is not cooled down, you can just stand in his fast and shoot them.

The trade off is that when sheeped your hp regen skyrockets.

I wonder if friendly fire is activated in the battlegrounds whether mages will sheep their wounded brethren. Ive seen sheeped monsters regen from 10% to full in 5 seconds.

The trade off is that when sheeped your hp regen skyrockets.

I wonder if friendly fire is activated in the battlegrounds whether mages will sheep their wounded brethren. Ive seen sheeped monsters regen from 10% to full in 5 seconds.

That''s why you sheep the mob once it becomes an add. People shouldn''t be in the midst of attacking it anyways.

Fireball is great for group pvp. Stand in the second rank and hurl a fireball at an enemy and watch the scary 1 hit damage, espeically with a crit. I had a mage crit me for 1200 from afar with a firebal. I thought I was comfortably safe with half my hp at the time, but that is one devastating spell. Also once the mage has casted it, even if you run out of range or line of sight, the fireball will still get you.

In a group situation for instances, a mage that doesn''t polymorph adds is a worthless mage, imho.

Well then the effectiveness wears off at higher levels.

Arcane missiles does a wave of 25 every second for 3 seconds at rank one, 85 mana. It does 36? I believe every second for 4 seconds at rank 2 at 140 mana. Then next rank of fireball after rank 1 of AM is 2.5 second cast time and does 53-73 plus 6 dot over 8 seconds. It cost 65 mana. The next fireball after rank 2 of AM does 84-116 at 95 mana. So the only justification I can see for it is the level or 2 that you get it upgraded. Of course, this is with having the caveat that I have no interruption on my AM, and am only level 20.

Quick math says FB can do 106-146 for 130 mana in 4 seconds. Or AM can do 150 in 6 seconds for 170. At the next rank FB can do 168-232 in 5 seconds for 190 mana. Or AM can do 144 in 4 seconds for 140 mana. To me, that seems like a negligible difference and thats at both of the fireballs'' upgrade levels. Yes fireball is the higher level spell in both cases.

I dont know, the ~15% better mana efficiency doesnt make up for the extended cast time (i dont have talent points to lessen cast time), I dont get interrupted, and the fact that I crit regularly on one wave of an AM cast. Plus the AM ""cool"" factor is better.

ducki, if a mage is in a group and get''s aggro and doesn''t want it, cast a Frost Nova! Just freeze them in place, then back up and let the tanks regain aggro of the mob while they are frozen. As long as the mage does not attack them, the tank should just have to hit them once or twice to get their attention.

Yeah, I''m not talking about that. That is a mage that knows his stuff. I''m talking about the folks that get aggro by unloading as soon as the hunter fires an arrow, then runs around in circles screaming ""Get it off, get it off!"" Those guys are catalysts for TPWs. Not anything like the mage that stays calm, roots, steps out of range, and holds his fire OR finishes off the main target. I love mages that know their tools but get really frustrated chasing mobs that are chasing casters and not getting close enough to hit until the mage falls.

Yep, it''s up to your talents really. Sorry, I knocked that post out right before I left work, didn''t mean to bash on you. If you don''t have the talent points put into lower casting time and improved crit chance for the fireball, then it does become less useful. It also generates more threat than AM.

I was just suprised at the statement you never use it. Even mages I know that go frost use it sometimes, especially at the lower levels where their frost line is not fully developed.

I did not think the Arcane Intelligence buff had any impact on people without mana bars?

I believe it also affects weapon skillup speed, but I''m not sure.

Well, I certainly used it up to level 8. And beyond aswell, since my AM was interruptable with little or no points into improved AM.

The range factor is an undeniable plus in favor of fireball. It does get some use from me in awkward long pull situations.

I had thought of this tactic. You can pull with fireball, and with maxed improved ice bolt, hopefully following a second fireball, you can slow it down and then finish it off with AM and if your impatient fireblast.

I play around sometimes with the skills I have. Even though downtime is mandatory after every 2-3 fights, it doesnt really matter to me whether its 15 or 18 seconds. So I experiment with my casting order that usually turns out to be more inefficient but its a learning process and it spices things up a bit.

I play around sometimes with the skills I have. Even though downtime is mandatory after every 2-3 fights, it doesnt really matter to me whether its 15 or 18 seconds. So I experiment with my casting order that usually turns out to be more inefficient but its a learning process and it spices things up a bit.

Ditto. I''m always messing around with spell order to see if there''s a better way to tackle a mob. Nothing is more irritating than getting a mob down to that last sliver of life and then realizing you''ll have to burn a scorch or other quick cast spell to finish it off (since wands are resisted 9 out of 10 times, and the chances of hitting a mob with a melee weapon often border on the ridiculous).

Of course, now that I''m close to having insta cast arcane explosion...

Unrelated topic... being silenced SUCKS. I was trying to do the Test of Endurance quest in 1K Needles.. I can survive the first group, but dammit.. the freakin harpies are constantly silencing me. As a mage, that pretty much means death since you can''t do NOTHIN.

"Tyrian" wrote:

Unrelated topic... being silenced SUCKS. I was trying to do the Test of Endurance quest in 1K Needles.. I can survive the first group, but dammit.. the freakin harpies are constantly silencing me. As a mage, that pretty much means death since you can''t do NOTHIN.

I was walking (well, running) through there to get to the Shimmering Flats and noticed the Harpies silencing me constantly. As a Hunter, this didn''t bother me too much, but I thought that would make them very difficult for pure casters to take on. And they''re part of an obligatory quest? Yikes.

And they''re part of an obligatory quest? Yikes.

There is prolly a good way to handle it, but it is really tough for a pure caster. I tried sheeping them when I could see them coming, but they were breaking polymorph early.

Ugh. You''d think that being 4+ lvls above the mobs, I''d have a chance to resist the silence ability. It''s an instant cast (no time for counterspell), evidently only has about a 10-15 second cooldown (5 of which you are silenced for!), and has a 5-10 yard range. Yay.

Yes, silencing sucks. I have not really found a way around it if you can''t counterspell. I''ve also had some enemies sheep me. The best thing to do is if going up against enemies that silence is to get a group.

Would Dampen Magic have any effect on Silence and/or Polymorph, like shorten the duration? Just curious.

"LeapingGnome" wrote:

5) Amplify magic/Dampen magic are friends. If you are not facing enemy spellcasters, cast amplify magic on yourself and your party. It makes healing spells so much more effective. If you are facing spellcasters, use dampen magic to reduce the effectiveness of their spells on your party. Dampen magic makes your ward spells and mana shield last that much longer as well.

Now these are useless spells if I ever saw them, and from what I''ve read other people agree. Sure, you can cast them on your party if you''re not fighting casters at that moment, but what about when you move on to the next mob and they are casters, now you''ve just opened yourself up. Plus the improved gives your heal an extra 50 max. Big deal. When you''re healing people with 2000+ hit points, that extra 50 is not really worth the mana and the risk exposure to enemy casters. Granted, I have not used these much, maybe the experience is better than how it reads.

I think Dampen Magic has some application when soloing against spell casters, especially since it feels like most enemy casters use any school of magic EXCEPT frost or fire, which we''re equipped to absorb. Maybe Frost and Fire Wards are more useful in PvP. They don''t suck out mana when hit like Mana Shield, do they?

"LeapingGnome" wrote:

6) Cast Arcane Intelligence on everyone in your party. It gives a boost to the size of everyone''s mana pool, and increases the chances of critical hits, even for melee oriented characters.

I did not think the Arcane Intelligence buff had any impact on people without mana bars? I''ve asked a high-level rogue and warrior and they''ve both told me intelligence does nothing for them. I thought agility affects your melee critical hit chance, intelligence only affects your casting crit chance? I always give it to anyone with a mana bar, the other people, no.

I believe I read somewhere that intelligence governs the speed you learn weapon skills. So yeah, not nearly as useful for non-mana users, but hey maybe they''ll get a few axe points quicker from it.

Intelligence = Crits on Spells
Agility = Crits on Attacks

So yeah, Intelligence is good for casters.

No, Frost/Fire Ward doesn''t suck mana, just takes some to cast. Most the of the spell casters I''ve seen I think are doing shadow damage.

I will have to find out about the Intelligence for melee''rs thing, I''m interested now.

As was said earlier.. the only thing raising Intelligence for a melee class does is allows them to gain skill in weapons slightly faster. You can mouse over all your stats and it tells you what they are for and it changes depending on your class.

For the Amplify/Dampen magic thing. I''m pretty sure your party doesn''t have to wait for the timer to run out when moving on to the next mob. I think you can kill any spell/potion effect that shows up at the top right of your screen by right clicking on it. Something else I didn''t see mentioned was to cast Amplify Magic on the mob itself.. so then your spells do even more nasty damage to them.

I''m pretty sure you can only cast Amplify/Dampen on friendlies?

"LeapingGnome" wrote:

I''m pretty sure you can only cast Amplify/Dampen on friendlies?

Not sure but it does say targeted party member

That''s a bummer. My mage hasn''t gotten up in level yet to get those so I hadn''t had a chance to experiment with it any.