Streamers with jobs

Trainwreck wrote:
MeatMan wrote:
Sparhawk wrote:

If it is only 0.1% I wonder why they even bother

So you're saying Twitch shouldn't have even bothered with posting an announcement at all? Sorry, I can't agree with that.

I believe Sparhawk meant that if it only affects 0.1% of the viewers, why bother implementing it.

Yes, that.

I follow 122 people. So the 100 limit would have hit me. I could probably trim 20 or so that either stopped streaming or I only followed for one event or something.

But at 250, I can't imagine that ever being a problem.

Sparhawk wrote:
Trainwreck wrote:
MeatMan wrote:
Sparhawk wrote:

If it is only 0.1% I wonder why they even bother

So you're saying Twitch shouldn't have even bothered with posting an announcement at all? Sorry, I can't agree with that.

I believe Sparhawk meant that if it only affects 0.1% of the viewers, why bother implementing it.

Yes, that.

Sorry for the confusion.

The reason for implementing the limit has nothing to do with users, and everything to do with technical optimization. Here's a direct quote from their twitter account.

TwitchTVSupport[/url]]We have implemented a Following cap to help optimize some of our backend processes that are slow due to large follow lists.

The only reason users were mentioned at all is because they chose to spin it this way: "We are evaluating a limit that would work for our backend as well as 99.9% of our users."

That makes sense

Twitch has put up a mea culpa blog post regarding the issue here. They have decided to make the follow cap 2000 which will be implemented "soon". Alls well that ends well I guess.

Big congrats to trainwreck for winning his first match of BOILeR!

Just thought I'd throw out there that I've finally gotten good upload speeds at home so I'm now live streaming on a regular basis! Right now, it's mostly me attacking games on my pile of shame (going through a replay of GTA4 right now) but I'm working on some other stuff. I did a stream of Payday 2 with some friends yesterday that went pretty well and I'm hoping to tie in some stuff to my Retro Flashback and All Together Now YouTube shows in the future. There are a couple of larger retro titles that would be hard to showcase in a 10-20 minute YouTube video that I can do better in a live stream. More stuff coming to that space soon!

Sounds good, glad it is all working now and the connection is speedy and all

So I'm thinking of trying my first stream out tonight. The Beyond: Two Souls demo is out today, and it seems like a good potential opportunity. However, I'm also second-guessing because it doesn't seem the sort of thing you want people to be talking over (I don't even know if I'd want to be talking over it). Additionally, I would certainly want people to be chatting via the mic or whatnot along with me, and don't know if that's something Twitch allows.

So some thoughts would be nice. I wouldn't be planning on streaming until around 9pm, after Agents of SHIELD was over.

Any advice, thoughts, encouragement appreciated. Or, y'know, people simply observing and listening in.

EDIT: On second thought, another night, another game, maybe.

DOUBLE EDIT: So I'll actually be doing it tonight. As posted elsewhere:

So I'll be doing a stream with commentary on Beyond: Two Souls tonight at 9pm EST. I'll be doing prepwork around 8:30pm. You can check it out here.

Finally had some time today and got back into streaming with some Early Access Nuclear Throne. This game's hella fun already! Going to try to do some more later today.

Ooooh, other twitch.tv users!

I've been streaming on and off for the last year or so - and I've decided (with the support of my wife) to make video game streaming my official hobby. As such, I've taken to streaming 3+ nights a week, in an attempt to entertain others with my stunning displays of mediocrity.

Feel free to check out my stream as well - I typically broadcast M, W, F from 9PM Eastern until I get tired (midnight-ish).

Sometimes I'm gaming by myself (in which case I'm probably playing Nether or XCom . . . or whatever else has caught my eye that week) - but I also stream games like SpeedRunners, CastleCrashers, and more with my friends.

We all have potty mouths, so the stream is officially rated NSFW - so be warned.

(I'll be checking out the other streams listed here as well).

I've finally bit the bullet and instead of being a liitle on the shy side (as it pertains to gaming with new people), and dipped my toe in the waters of gaming with some other Goodjers - starting with PayDay2, and some of the gang from that side of things.

Ran through the game a good bit last Wednesday night, and am planning to game with them again this Wednesday as well - would absolutely love it if any other streamers (or goodjers in general) wanted to stop by and watch the stream.

To help promoting your own stream...maybe you guys can talk to the goodjers giving away keys for games on Steam.
Just a thought.

I'm considering starting to do a weekly stream at a scheduled time, similar to a television show, but am uncertain at the moment. I was considering something like Friday night at 9pm ET or something, and my first game being Dragon's Dogma. It seems in line with some of the sort of single player games folks enjoy streaming.

Just not exactly sure what I'd be talking about throughout all that time, if people want to hear me talk that much at all. Extra Life was just a few snapshots of games and thus was easier to try and talk for two hours, but it also got difficult as well.

ccesarano wrote:

I'm considering starting to do a weekly stream at a scheduled time, similar to a television show, but am uncertain at the moment.

That's what I did when I first started (yes, all of these videos are horrible, I know. I didn't edit anything from my live show and just uploaded the files to youtube) and it works well for giving you a week to prepare material for the game you're going to present.

Something you want to consider would be what is your end goal for the show? Is it just to stream yourself playing through the game, or do you want to showcase specific things about the game?

If you're just playing through the game and trying to get views that way, a weekly show might be too long to wait in between sessions if you're looking to garner interest. If you're trying to educate/inform viewers about a game or certain game mechanics and your views on it, then a weekly show would make sense.

Also, you have to take a look at your time slot. What else is playing at 9PM on a Friday night? If there is a weekly League of Legends/Call of Duty live show or some other big game that streams at the same time, how many people will be available to watch someone play Dragon's Dogma?

Trust me, I was right where you were at a few years ago and I never could figure out the right formula. Getting consistent viewers to your stream is super hard, especially now that streaming has become so very popular. However I think you've definitely got the drive to stick with it and try new things. Don't get discouraged, but definitely try to have a plan of attack before hopping in.

...And damn it all if this doesn't want me to start streaming again

Does anyone else feel like Twitch has seriously hampered/ruined the ability for smaller streamers to stream effectively? I've noticed that my chat cuts out regularly, my number of viewers doesn't update anymore, and the stream delay has gotten a lot longer - it used to be < 5 seconds or so, but now it's up to about 20 - 30.

I've also found that it's easier to get an audience if you stream at off times. I can get a fair number of people by streaming at 2-4 AM MT, if my schedule allows.

Xeknos wrote:

I've also found that it's easier to get an audience if you stream at off times. I can get a fair number of people by streaming at 2-4 AM MT, if my schedule allows.

Yeah, that's what I was eluding to before. It is definitely a lot easier to pick up an audience when you're not up against some of the bigger names/games. There are only so many people out there watching streams, so (at least in my mind) it'd might be easier to catch people during those off-times.

As for the stream delay--I always kind of had a good 15-20 second delay when I was streaming through twitch. But maybe that was just XSplit being stupid, I dunno. Like I said, it's been about two years since I've actually tried streaming so I'm sure everything has changed.

Xeknos wrote:

Does anyone else feel like Twitch has seriously hampered/ruined the ability for smaller streamers to stream effectively? I've noticed that my chat cuts out regularly, my number of viewers doesn't update anymore, and the stream delay has gotten a lot longer - it used to be < 5 seconds or so, but now it's up to about 20 - 30.

I've also found that it's easier to get an audience if you stream at off times. I can get a fair number of people by streaming at 2-4 AM MT, if my schedule allows.

It's basically impossible to get noticed now if you're a new streamer. Twitch only promotes games and channels that are already popular so the only way people notice you is if they stumble across you or someone else shouts you out. With seemingly every member of the gaming press with built-in audiences getting into this now too, it's harder than ever. If you're playing one of their promoted games (which are almost always MOBAs, StarCraft and now occasionally DayZ), that can help too but then you're getting pigeon-holed because people will be expecting you to play those in perpetuity and won't stick around if you don't. Playing at off hours certainly helps but now with the PS4 having streaming capability, there is always a massive sea of content out there at all hours of the day and night. The Pile Driver streams I do used to bring in a dozen or so viewers but the last two I did brought in 2 and 0 respectively. It's funny but I think it's actually easier to find viewership on YouTube (which is no picnic either) than it is on Twitch now.

I still stream because I enjoy doing it and would encourage anyone who wants to try it to do so but yeah, unless you're playing certain hot games, you're not likely to find much of an audience, particularly if you focus on stuff that's a few years old. Giant Bomb and the like can do that because their audience loves the team so much that they got hundreds of viewers when they just sat at a table and played Cards Against Humanity. Patrick Klepek made a bold prediction that streaming video would "change everything" this year. I think he's right but I think it will only be for a select few people.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

It's basically impossible to get noticed now if you're a new streamer. Twitch only promotes games and channels that are already popular so the only way people notice you is if they stumble across you or someone else shouts you out.

To be honest, that was always an issue since streaming had first started becoming popular. If you're already playing a niche game or a game that has been out for a few years, there really isn't much incentive for anyone to watch unless there's some sort of mechanic that promotes different playstyles (any rogue-like, Dark Souls, etc). I don't recall ever seeing any streamer that had that many viewers that wasn't already playing a popular game at the time.

Now the problem isn't that Twitch/Youtube promotes things that are already popular, it's a problem of over saturation.

See, I'm more curious if streaming is something I'd like to pursue, especially since it's a pretty big deal at the moment. However, it's not where I want to gather a following. Hell, what I really want is a streaming service with an audio chat room or something. I want to talk with people over the headset while doing a game or some such.

I'm more interested in seeing if streaming is a thing I would like and/or be good at.

Xeknos wrote:

Does anyone else feel like Twitch has seriously hampered/ruined the ability for smaller streamers to stream effectively? I've noticed that my chat cuts out regularly, my number of viewers doesn't update anymore, and the stream delay has gotten a lot longer - it used to be < 5 seconds or so, but now it's up to about 20 - 30.

Yeah, its been terrible over the past week. Getting back into Guild Wars 2, I've been trying to watch high level warriors/engineers who explain their moves as they play. But when the stream goes offline and sound/video isnt in sync, its kinda hard to understand. These are small streamers though, 0-100 viewers.

ccesarano wrote:

See, I'm more curious if streaming is something I'd like to pursue, especially since it's a pretty big deal at the moment. However, it's not where I want to gather a following. Hell, what I really want is a streaming service with an audio chat room or something. I want to talk with people over the headset while doing a game or some such.

I'm more interested in seeing if streaming is a thing I would like and/or be good at.

This is what a few of my friends and I do over mumble... although most of them have fallen into the DOTA whole so it has gotten boring for me.

I have had friends walk me through difficult parts of games while I was streaming as well.

Xeknos wrote:

Does anyone else feel like Twitch has seriously hampered/ruined the ability for smaller streamers to stream effectively? I've noticed that my chat cuts out regularly, my number of viewers doesn't update anymore, and the stream delay has gotten a lot longer - it used to be < 5 seconds or so, but now it's up to about 20 - 30.

I've also found that it's easier to get an audience if you stream at off times. I can get a fair number of people by streaming at 2-4 AM MT, if my schedule allows.

The added delay you're noticing is from Twitch switching to the HLS video format on their players. Now everything gets encoded through their servers. By doing this they've cut down on costs in exchange for severely hampering viewer interaction with the streamer. I've actually changed my style a bit because of this. Before I'd have more of a back and forth conversation with the viewers. Now with the delay I've turned into more of a monologue format adjusting when feedback comes my way.

It's tough to get noticed as a streamer. You can't rely on Twitch starting out. You have to network with other streamers in order to pool your viewers. I've created relationships with a number of people that send viewers my way and vice versa. It's almost essential now in order to hit that critical mass necessary to get new viewership and be on the upper slots of channels listed.

I've been streaming for a year this month. I've finally gotten to the point where I get around 50-100 steady viewers per day whatever game I play. It takes a lot of work, consistency, and a bunch of luck to get noticed. Definitely not for everyone.

Didn't know that Twitch itself caused all of this. I think it has pretty serious impact overall.
Maybe another player will pop up and provide better service.

Sparhawk wrote:

Didn't know that Twitch itself caused all of this. I think it has pretty serious impact overall.
Maybe another player will pop up and provide better service.

Hitbox.tv is a new player. I should note however that the CEO of Hitbox was the CFO of Own3d, which folded and didn't pay their partner streamers. So yeah, jury's still out on that one.

Whats the minimum upload speed you can have to do a good stream?

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Whats the minimum upload speed you can have to do a good stream?

Depends on the quality and the framerate. The following is assuming you're using 30fps. If you're streaming at 480p you can probably get away with 1000 kb/s. For 720p you're going to want at minimum 1600 kb/s. I wouldn't recommend going to 1080p unless you're partnered or you can consistently have enough viewers for the automatic encoding system to kick in and give your viewers quality options. I stream at 720p at 2000 kb/s. If it's a particularly intensive game I might tweak that up to 2200. It's generally not advised to go higher since it's not just your upload but your viewer's download speed that you need to take in account.

In my opinion if you want to do a fast moving first/third person game you really want to have 3000kb/s. When you go much lower it gets to be a pixellated mess.

For games with a more static info on screen you can get by with much less. Starcraft 2 looks good and stays clear at 720p and 1800kb/s, for example, but my attempts to do Battlefield 3 at that same resolution and bit rate were an unwatchable mess.

My connection tops out at 2000, which is a big part of why I only very rarely stream. It's just not enough for the games I've been favoring lately.

Thin_J wrote:

In my opinion if you want to do a fast moving first/third person game you really want to have 3000kb/s. When you go much lower it gets to be a pixellated mess.

For games with a more static info on screen you can get by with much less. Starcraft 2 looks good and stays clear at 720p and 1800kb/s, for example, but my attempts to do Battlefield 3 at that same resolution and bit rate were an unwatchable mess.

My connection tops out at 2000, which is a big part of why I only very rarely stream. It's just not enough for the games I've been favoring lately.

You'd be surprised how much that extra 200 kb/s makes a difference. Of course it also depends on your encoding settings but most games at most you'd need 22-2400 kb/s.