NHL 2013-2014: Islanders sold, Wang stops losing money, on to the next save-all

The Leafs are getting worse each week, it seems like. And now the HBO cameras are in the locker room, which is only going to make things tougher. I'm concerned. Toronto is just unable to put in a complete game - at times they play great, get their cycle and puck possession going and are just deadly scoring. Kessel has been great this year.

But far too often they let up on the game and stop playing, get passive and just get dominated. If it wasn't for Reimer and Bernier providing superhuman goaltending, Toronto would be down in the basement of the league. I know everyone that plays for Toronto gets overhyped, but both of our goaltenders are playing just awesome. Bernier completely stole the game vs Dallas on Friday.

Our biggest problem is at center. Dave Bolland isn't back until January at earliest, and Bozak has been in and out of the lineup. That means Kadri is getting more ice time and I really just don't think he's ready for the pressure. He's great with limited ice time, in protected situations, but he's just way too inconsistent.

Don't feel bad, Wings are not doing as well ether, specially with Helm, Dekeyser, Datsyuk and Z missing. Pavel should be back tuesday so hopefully we can get some legs.

nihilo wrote:

The Leafs are getting worse each week, it seems like. And now the HBO cameras are in the locker room, which is only going to make things tougher. I'm concerned. Toronto is just unable to put in a complete game - at times they play great, get their cycle and puck possession going and are just deadly scoring. Kessel has been great this year.

But far too often they let up on the game and stop playing, get passive and just get dominated. If it wasn't for Reimer and Bernier providing superhuman goaltending, Toronto would be down in the basement of the league. I know everyone that plays for Toronto gets overhyped, but both of our goaltenders are playing just awesome. Bernier completely stole the game vs Dallas on Friday.

Our biggest problem is at center. Dave Bolland isn't back until January at earliest, and Bozak has been in and out of the lineup. That means Kadri is getting more ice time and I really just don't think he's ready for the pressure. He's great with limited ice time, in protected situations, but he's just way too inconsistent.

Also Phaneuf now has a hearing scheduled for his uncalled board on Kevan Miller.

Orpik hit was hard and clean. Hit him in the chest right after the puck got there.

Refusing to fight is his prerogative.

Neal's knee to the head was dirty.

Thorton was not just one punch and out. It was slew foot, punch someone who is on the ice twice who was not able to defend himself.

The freaking excuses I hear from some talking heads are ridiculous. There is no room at all for this in sport or in life. It is way different than when two players agree to fight.

But I can take it or leave it regarding fighting. I do get riled up sometimes but I like the game better than the legalized fighting.

imbiginjapan wrote:

IMAGE(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1956231/826268438.gif)

this is the hit that started it all. You can clearly see orpik lead in high with his shoulder. Anyway I don't know. I really love watching hockey. But yeah, the league is glacial with its evolution. I have been complaining for years now and don't want to really go down that tired old road again.

I hadn't seen that hit before now, but it looks worse because Erikson's playing head down; you can see Orpik drop to match before he makes the hit. Can't really see anything there that should have been a penalty for; he's not targeting the head and as mentioned, even if he had clipped the head, well, Erikson should have been playing upright more.

That said, Neal's knee to the head was utter bullsh*t and completely uncalled for; he deliberately turned back and leaned the knee out to catch him. Sadly, he won't(or hasn't at this point) get nearly as many games as he deserves for that bullsh*t.

And then Orpik on Thornton.. ugh. After stoppage, unprovoked, and he put him out of the game. Dude skated over, drug him down to the ice backwards and delivers multiple blows to the head. He deserves to be out for the season, but probably won't get suspended for more than 20 games.

Yeah, Orpik was probably within his rights there. Those open-ice hits make me cringe every time though.
Thornton's nutty was totally out of character too. The guy has always played the game by the book. I really think he just lost his mind for a second. Very sad.

Let's look at this instead, shall we? Sort of the hockey equivalent of cute kittens.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/6JzC7ES.gif)

For those interested, Neal is getting 5 games. I personally think it's light, but from listening to Shanny explain it, it seems like their hands were tied because they can't classify him as a repeat offender per the current CBA.

nihilo wrote:

The Leafs are getting worse each week, it seems like. And now the HBO cameras are in the locker room, which is only going to make things tougher. I'm concerned. Toronto is just unable to put in a complete game - at times they play great, get their cycle and puck possession going and are just deadly scoring. Kessel has been great this year.

They did very well against LA the other night but got unlucky, though the second night of a back-to-back for the Kings probably helped Toronto a fair bit in the play-driving department. Things aren't looking good though, still in a tough part of the schedule and their points pace is the same as the last two seasons.

Douglas Murray and Alexei Emelin getting healthy has managed to turn the Habs from a good possession team to a horrible one. Quite the accomplishment for just two players.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/51jR9qG.jpg)

Once again, for those keeping track, 15 games for Thornton.

Not unreasonable. Neal should have gotten the same, though.

I thought Thornton might get closer to 10 since it's a first offense, but I can't argue with 15.

Ed Ropple wrote:

Not unreasonable. Neal should have gotten the same, though.

I do agree that Neal's was light, but the two offenses, while both egregious, are hardly comparable. Thornton slewfooted Orpik onto the ice, then pounded him repeatedly; Shanahan and company noted 2 hits, but if you watch the clip, it's easily 2-3x that number. Neal's hit, while absolutely targeted, was a one shot deal, and since it didn't result in an injury, gets treated lighter.

Again, both incidents are horrible. There is no place in hockey for either incident. But in terms of severity, Thornton's vicious assault on Orpik is the more severe incident.

Yeah, no, sorry. Most of the time a guy gets back up when he's grounded and hit like that. Neal put a knee through a guy's head. That's a killshot. That's how somebody dies on the ice. "Injury matters" is bullsh*t.

Ed Ropple wrote:

Yeah, no, sorry. Most of the time a guy gets back up when he's grounded and hit like that. Neal put a knee through a guy's head. That's a killshot. That's how somebody dies on the ice. "Injury matters" is bullsh*t.

Injury matters because it is a way to show severity of the incident. Additionally, even if you take that out of the equation, you're still comparing a game misconduct with a two minute minor(kneeing), so there's disparity there as well. And if you want to talk about kill shots, it was one shot from neal vs 2 that Shanahan counted plus the 3-4 he missed, and that's after you consider that he got dropped with enough force to bounce his head off the ice.

Again, both incidents were egregious. Neither has a place in the league. But to say that Neal's single hit was as bad as Thornton dropping Orpik and assaulting him is to ignore all the facts.

Easiest way to stop this crap is to, on top of the suspension for the infraction, suspend the player for the same amount of time the victim cannot play due to injury. Orpik out a month? Thornton out a month + 15 games.

Funny that there is so much debate on whether fighting has it's place yet savage assaults like Thornton's and cheap plays like Neal's continuously get slaps on the wrist. At least if Thornton would have squared up with Orpik, Orpik would have had a chance to defend himself.

FSeven wrote:

Easiest way to stop this crap is to, on top of the suspension for the infraction, suspend the player for the same amount of time the victim cannot play due to injury. Orpik out a month? Thornton out a month + 15 games.

That won't work because injuries are such a wild card. What if a player's career was ended from an a suspendable offense but not something that was all bad? (accidental high-stick and the injured player had a history of concussions?) I'll argue that injuries should play no role in what suspensions.

The best way for the NHL to deal with this is too hand out longer suspensions and be consistent with them.

Also, injuries happen. Especially with hits. I don't want to I hitting taken out of the game because people are squeamish. Younger players need to be properly taught how to view the ice around them, not to ever turn their back on a play, and how to brace for impact. They also need to be taught how to properly hit in order to avoid injuring other players.

Part of the problem with today's players is that they have spent their whole lives learning and playing one style. The rules have been changed and some are having a difficulty adjusting. I wouldn't be surprised if the next genertion is more adapted and we see less dangerous hits.

Vector wrote:

That won't work because injuries are such a wild card. What if a player's career was ended from an a suspendable offense but not something that was all bad? (accidental high-stick and the injured player had a history of concussions?) I'll argue that injuries should play no role in what suspensions.

Exactly. Eric Lindros's concussions were largely from getting drilled in completely legal ways, for example. Or, for example, the concussion that ended Marc Savard's comeback (Hunwick, I think) was nothing-special scrapping along the boards. Loui Eriksson's most recent concussion that has the dumber members of Bruins fandom still up in arms was because he turned into a legal check. Injury can't matter because of how variable the resulting injuries can be.

If you take reckless and dangerous actions--and that's what both of them did--then you need to be rung up for it.

So the solution is actually just international ice?

The NHL keeps talking about wanting to protect players and improve the quality of the game. Adding some more room to move around just seems like the logical solution both ways. I'm by no means an expert though.

That's a novel solution I'd never considered. I'd need to think on it more, but I think I like that a lot.

jowner wrote:

So the solution is actually just international ice?

I love hockey played on international sized ice. I hated the Vancouver Olympics because of the lack of this.

*Legion* wrote:
jowner wrote:

So the solution is actually just international ice?

I love hockey played on international sized ice. I hated the Vancouver Olympics because of the lack of this.

It's really because you're an American patriot that hates watching Canada succeed.

It's true that international ice would cut down on injuries. It would also cut down on hitting. I like hitting so I'm adverse to say I'd be for it. I'm not completely opposed. I do like the additional benefit that non-North American players would have less of an adjustment period.

Vector wrote:

I do like the additional benefit that non-North American players would have less of an adjustment period.

It's not entirely foreign to US players. There are quite a few international size sheets in college hockey (as well as some weird in-betweens, i.e. Wisconsin's is 97 ft because it's in a basketball arena).

Something tells me the big market arenas would be a bit unhappy with the prospect of losing several rows of seating.

imbiginjapan wrote:

Something tells me the big market arenas would be a bit unhappy with the prospect of losing several rows of seating.

IMAGE(http://www.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/bettman_gary.jpg)

Vector wrote:
FSeven wrote:

Easiest way to stop this crap is to, on top of the suspension for the infraction, suspend the player for the same amount of time the victim cannot play due to injury. Orpik out a month? Thornton out a month + 15 games.

That won't work because injuries are such a wild card. What if a player's career was ended from an a suspendable offense but not something that was all bad? (accidental high-stick and the injured player had a history of concussions?) I'll argue that injuries should play no role in what suspensions.

The best way for the NHL to deal with this is too hand out longer suspensions and be consistent with them.

My argument is just for egregious incidents which draw league discipline. Both Thornton and Neal are perfect examples of egregious incidents. Scott Stevens' hit that arguably ended Lindros' career? Well, it was a clean hit so that's just a tough break for Lindros. Accidental high sticks, although acts which are penalized on the ice, do not draw any league discipline unless we're talking a McCracken type high stick.

I'm arguing strictly incidents which are intentional, flagrant, and which draw league discipline.

Also, International sized ice is an interesting thought. 10 feet longer and 13 feet wider with goal lines 2 feet further from the end boards. Doesn't seem like a tremendous size difference yet results in a considerable difference in play.

imbiginjapan wrote:

Something tells me the big market arenas would be a bit unhappy with the prospect of losing several rows of seating.

Ive heard this reason before. I would love if they just lifted any rules requiring a standard size.

Would be amazing to see a team adopt the maximum dimensions and build the team around speed. You would assume it would outweigh the lost revenue from seats if you have a noticeable home advantage that translates into more playoffs.

I don't think speed will save such a team. You can play collapsing and weak forechecks in big rinks; that's how half the Olympic teams play, often with much less talent than an NHL team.

Wow. Two nights ago the Avs could barely find the net. Tonight the damned puck was like a homing missile for them. I'm not a fan of blow-outs in general, but definitely prefer it when my team is on the giving, rather than received end of one. I'm both surprised and delighted that the Avs are still possible playoff contenders this far into the season.

Vector wrote:

It's really because you're an American patriot that hates watching Canada succeed.

It's rare enough that I can manage to stomach my distaste when it does happen.