George Zimmerman Arrested

Dimmerswitch wrote:

I'm not interested in moderating, but I do often find myself wishing you put even half as much effort into constructive engagement as you do into the driveby snarking.

It's relative though - it seems like "driveby snark" because I'm in the minority, otherwise it's just "the direction the thread happens to be taking". Look at the Pentagon overspending thread - plenty of teaper and conservative bashing there, and the thread's just getting geared up. You can't have a forum where that kind of thing is the status quo but an (admittedly kinda dumb) anti-left joke evokes finger wagging.

Jayhawker wrote:

I don't think it really is a red vs. blue story. And it wasn't framed as such until Norm played his Biden joke for what I estimate is the 16th time in P&C.

I've made the Biden shotgun joke before? Not according to this Bingo card, strange...

...really? You're giving Norman sh*t for anti-lefty snark? Holy sh*t if I were to count all the anti-right snark I've seen I'd need a database manager just to keep up with it :P.

One should never enter a P&C type of forum without a very healthy sense of humor.

cheeba wrote:

...really? You're giving Norman sh*t for anti-lefty snark? Holy sh*t if I were to count all the anti-right snark I've seen I'd need a database manager just to keep up with it :P.

One should never enter a P&C type of forum without a very healthy sense of humor.

He's giving Norman sh*t because he knows Norman can provide more constructive conversation. . That's the important bit.

NormanTheIntern wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

I'm not interested in moderating, but I do often find myself wishing you put even half as much effort into constructive engagement as you do into the driveby snarking.

It's relative though - it seems like "driveby snark" because I'm in the minority, otherwise it's just "the direction the thread happens to be taking". Look at the Pentagon overspending thread - plenty of teaper and conservative bashing there, and the thread's just getting geared up. You can't have a forum where that kind of thing is the status quo but an (admittedly kinda dumb) anti-left joke evokes finger wagging.

I disagree. It seems like driveby snark because it is. For the record, the anti-conservative driveby snark is also unconstructive.

Maybe it's just that I was re-reading the various Wisconsin threads recently, but I'm more disappointed when you do it, because I feel pretty strongly like I have the bigger opportunity to learn when I have substantive discussions with smart people who disagree with me. Even when they don't persuade me to change my mind, I can walk away with a better understanding of an opposing viewpoint, as well as a more thorough understanding of my own.

Again, I'm not interested in tone policing, but when you say "Guys cmon he just did what Biden told him and bought a shotgun" what comes across is "I have nothing to contribute to this conversation".

And I guess I disagree with that.

[Edit: to add the word "smart", to clarify that it's the quality of the disagreement that is valuable, not simply the act of disagrement]

Look I'm just going to say it

Spoiler:

I'm the conservative P&C deserves
*rappels down the side of building*

I hope that after killing one human being and now standing accused of these domestic charges, no one in Florida feels threatened when they see him and feels they need to stand their ground.

I mean this sincerely and also as a commentary on the fact that so many people felt Trayvon Martin could be threatening when he had never done anything comparable in his shortened life.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

Look I'm just going to say it

Spoiler:

I'm the conservative P&C deserves
*rappels down the side of building*

I understand you see yourself as a conservative counterweight in these forums, but why on earth you'd choose to be a counterweight to the least-constructive elements on the opposite side of the spectrum, when there are folks willing to have substantive conversations, will probably remain baffling to me.

I get that it's easier, but I think that having snark be a primary posting mode does you a disservice, and actively hurts you those times you do want to make a legitimate point.

Your call of course.

On-topic, I think if Zimmerman continues to have incidents like this most-recent one with his girlfriend, and doesn't suffer any legal consequences, it's probably a matter of time before someone does feel threatened by him and shoots him, citing Florida's stand-your-ground law.

I find that a really disheartening prospect.

Dimmerswitch wrote:
NormanTheIntern wrote:

Look I'm just going to say it

Spoiler:

I'm the conservative P&C deserves
*rappels down the side of building*

I understand you see yourself as a conservative counterweight in these forums, but why on earth you'd choose to be a counterweight to the least-constructive elements on the opposite side of the spectrum, when there are folks willing to have substantive conversations, will probably remain baffling to me.

I get that it's easier, but I think that having snark be a primary posting mode does you a disservice, and actively hurts you those times you do want to make a legitimate point.

Your call of course. :(

I dunno, seems like a weird thing to give someone crap over. Considering these three posts were above it, it was keeping in tone with the thread thus far pretty well, just coming from a different angle. I thought it was pretty clear that Norman didn't actually think threatening people with a shotgun was okay because Biden suggested it once. The joke was making fun of both at Zimmerman and Biden, not using Biden's screw-up to excuse or lessen Zimmerman's screw-up.

Sort of back on topic....

I spoke to a cop the other day about the whole Zimmerman thing and he said something to the effect of that folks who are all in the justice for Trayvon Martin camp should just relax. I was puzzled and asked him why he thought that. He responded that it is very evident that Zimmerman is a f*ckup through and through and that it is simply in the nature of f*ckups to f*ck up. And sooner or later he was going to end up either beaten to death or getting ass raped in prison on a 20 year stretch.

He's probably right.

I think that will happen to him too but I am actually concerned about the number of people he could drag down with him. Would your friend feel the same way if he had killed his girlfriend? How about if he kills someone else?

Seriously we know he is a danger to others lets find some way to minimize the risk of him harming others. Perhaps not jail for him but other kinds of help.

The dude is $9M in debt?!

So I'll admit I chuckled at the Biden comment, but also I recognize picking on Biden is as fair as picking on Quayle. He's one of the reasons I'm convinced presidents pick the most loathsome and/or idiot vice presidents they can as an insurance policy. Try to assassinate me and just realize who'll you be putting in office instead.

Anyhow, on the Zimmerman case, my first inclination is so what. There's no excuse for domestic violence but if this case involved anyone else this would at most be a brief in the local paper. The only thing that I find remotely interesting is how Zimmerman calmly tried to turn the tables on her and claim he was the one being attacked. While I still stand by my earlier feelings that the prosecution's case wasn't strong enough to convict him at the Martin trial, I'm now willing to concede that it's quite possible he attacked Martin versus simply following/verbally challenging him.

Also, I'm amazed an obese, unemployed dude with millions in debt could get a girlfriend.

farley3k wrote:

I think that will happen to him too but I am actually concerned about the number of people he could drag down with him. Would your friend feel the same way if he had killed his girlfriend? How about if he kills someone else?

Seriously we know he is a danger to others lets find some way to minimize the risk of him harming others. Perhaps not jail for him but other kinds of help.

Yeah, if we sent him to jail, he'd call 911 every 5 seconds for a threatening-looking black man.

Also, I'm amazed an obese, unemployed dude with millions in debt could get a girlfriend.

Famous. Not for anything GOOD mind you... but still.

Paleocon wrote:

Sort of back on topic....

I spoke to a cop the other day about the whole Zimmerman thing and he said something to the effect of that folks who are all in the justice for Trayvon Martin camp should just relax. I was puzzled and asked him why he thought that. He responded that it is very evident that Zimmerman is a f*ckup through and through and that it is simply in the nature of f*ckups to f*ck up. And sooner or later he was going to end up either beaten to death or getting ass raped in prison on a 20 year stretch.

He's probably right.

I'm a bit more worried that Zimmerman's uncontrollable anger and obsession with firearms is going to get another person killed before that happens. His (hopefully now ex-) girlfriend was literally a hair's breadth from contributing to Florida's domestic homicide statistic.

OG_slinger wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Sort of back on topic....

I spoke to a cop the other day about the whole Zimmerman thing and he said something to the effect of that folks who are all in the justice for Trayvon Martin camp should just relax. I was puzzled and asked him why he thought that. He responded that it is very evident that Zimmerman is a f*ckup through and through and that it is simply in the nature of f*ckups to f*ck up. And sooner or later he was going to end up either beaten to death or getting ass raped in prison on a 20 year stretch.

He's probably right.

I'm a bit more worried that Zimmerman's uncontrollable anger and obsession with firearms is going to get another person killed before that happens. His (hopefully now ex-) girlfriend was literally a hair's breadth from contributing to Florida's domestic homicide statistic.

My extremely cynical cop friend would say that that would have been a logical consequence of dating a dirtbag with a holster sniffing obsession.

jdzappa wrote:

Anyhow, on the Zimmerman case, my first inclination is so what. There's no excuse for domestic violence but if this case involved anyone else this would at most be a brief in the local paper.

Probably, but I don't see anything really wrong with that. Zimmerman's single case was really a battlefield for gun laws, and a lot of people with simplistic or idealistic views decided to fight about what gun ownership should look like. As we see Zimmerman's actions play out over time, I think it's fair to keep talking about this man as an example of how gun laws are somewhat broken right now. I think every reasonable person will say, "Not literally everyone should have easy access to guns" but you do have a lot of folks who don't see any harm in a man like Zimmerman having that access. So in his case, it's curious to see where those folks might think the line is.

jdzappa wrote:

Anyhow, on the Zimmerman case, my first inclination is so what. There's no excuse for domestic violence but if this case involved anyone else this would at most be a brief in the local paper. The only thing that I find remotely interesting is how Zimmerman calmly tried to turn the tables on her and claim he was the one being attacked. While I still stand by my earlier feelings that the prosecution's case wasn't strong enough to convict him at the Martin trial, I'm now willing to concede that it's quite possible he attacked Martin versus simply following/verbally challenging him.

Also, I'm amazed an obese, unemployed dude with millions in debt could get a girlfriend.

I think that is really the point as well as the point my cop friend was making. Though he may have evaded justice by virtue of bad case management in the first instance, he is very unlikely to escape his pattern of behavior and will undoubtedly reap the consequences eventually.

To me, at least, this pattern of behavior was evident even before the whole Martin business. His history of domestic battery, assaulting a law officer, and his sense of entitlement brought on by the fact that his daddy always got him out of stuff indicated to me that he was precisely the sort of person that would hunt someone down and murder him for sport in the guise of "protecting his neighborhood".

It is good to see your coming along to that view as well.

Zimmerman is essentially OJ Simpson now. He's a pariah that no one respectable wants around. Like Simpson, he was justifiably acquitted of a crime most believe he committed. But the evidence didn't support a conviction.

But he is nothing but a distraction, and his history as a violent douche bag has been exposed. So who wants to hire him? Who wants to be his friend? Who wants him as a neighbor?

This has bad ending written all over it. The question is, how many are going to sink with him?

Dimmerswitch wrote:

I get that it's easier, but I think that having snark be a primary posting mode does you a disservice, and actively hurts you those times you do want to make a legitimate point.

Well I don't really think it's my "primary mode", but I do think humor is a good way to sort of... humanize things, I guess? There will always be a subset of people who can't laugh at themselves, but I think it's good for us in general to see other facets of ourselves.

At any rate the only thing I'd take actual issue with here is whoever said he was a racist, but that's probably not worth re-hashing.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

I think it's good for us in general to see other facets of ourselves.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/uVgbKCn.gif)

Paleocon wrote:

My extremely cynical cop friend would say that that would have been a logical consequence of dating a dirtbag with a holster sniffing obsession.

I think I like the cut of your cynical cop friend's jib.

I don't have anything too revelatory to add here, so I'll just agree that it seems like Zimmerman is bound to self-destruct in some fashion and it seems a shame for anyone who ends up caught up in that. Even if it does seem kind of darkly deserved in some cases.

The sad thing about that sort of extreme cynicism is the people hurt in the meantime. That's the reason that the answer ought to be "fix the system so that this sh*t doesn't happen again" and not "assholes will eventually f*ck up enough to get what they deserve".

(P.S. "Prison rape" is still not an OK thing.)

I find it more than a little absurd and distressing that even this case becomes a partisan issue. And, as a matter of decorum, I personally don't much appreciate being cited as a justification in a conversation I'm not involved with. Not too surprising, but it seems there's a huge problem when my tasteless, but free of politically identifying language joke marks me as a librul.

Hypatian wrote:

The sad thing about that sort of extreme cynicism is the people hurt in the meantime. That's the reason that the answer ought to be "fix the system so that this sh*t doesn't happen again" and not "assholes will eventually f*ck up enough to get what they deserve".

(P.S. "Prison rape" is still not an OK thing.)

Well, he is a cop. The cynicism sort of comes with the job. So does casual talk about prison rape. I imagine it comes from seeing dirtbags evade justice all the time.

jdzappa wrote:

So I'll admit I chuckled at the Biden comment, but also I recognize picking on Biden is as fair as picking on Quayle. He's one of the reasons I'm convinced presidents pick the most loathsome and/or idiot vice presidents they can as an insurance policy. Try to assassinate me and just realize who'll you be putting in office instead.

Remember, VPs are brought in to shore up a regional weakness or exploit an opportunity in a region (unless you're stupid enough to select the head of your selection committee, in which case you get the veep you deserve). Biden is from Scranton PA, and is well-known there and in surrounding states, like Ohio. He's also older and white, which means he was good for Florida as well.

Hard to beat a guy who is a genius campaigner, a blistering (and divisive) speaker, can think on his feet, and can get eyes and ears in three battleground states.

BTW, JD, I appreciate your practical approach to Zimmerman. I agree, whatever doubts I had about him (and they were not strong, but they were there) have been wiped out by his public behavior over the last six months or so. Dude's looking for trouble, and it will eventually find him.

Okay. CNN just posted the picture of the girlfriend that made that 911 call and she is actually a looker.

This goes back to the question above regarding how in the hell does an unemployed, 300+ pound, holster sniffing deadbeat who is $9million in debt with a history of beating up on women, assaulting law officers, and hunting down and killing teenagers able to find a girlfriend that doesn't look like Honey Boo Boo's mom?

If I live to 10000, I will never understand women.

Chicks dig the bad boys.

I wonder what will happen when someone actually draws a gun on this f*ckstick as opposed to him pointing the weapon. I figure either he'll sh*t his pants or try to recreate the wild west. My money is on the former.

Nevin73 wrote:

I wonder what will happen when someone actually draws a gun on this f*ckstick as opposed to him pointing the weapon. I figure either he'll sh*t his pants or try to recreate the wild west. My money is on the former.

I really hope Zimmerman's right to carry a gun is taken away before anyone else is hurt or killed and we never find out the answer to this.

Ahh yes... What this story was missing is some good, old fashioned victim blaming.

IMAGE(http://img.pandawhale.com/50931-Colbert-slow-clap-gif-tOP4.gif)