Things Immigrants Couldn't Believe About the USA

Robear wrote:

I've never heard of a "UK culture". English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and then there are the class differences. But UK as a whole? I doubt it.

The point of the book seems to be that there is no one over-riding culture to which Americans acclimate and change. The regional differences *are* the point.

Stengah, could you name the elements of American culture that are common across every sub-culture? Heck, could you name *one*? What characteristic describes Americans, coast to coast?

BTW, the book is based on decades of polling and voting results as well as history, so it's functional differences, not academic or idealistic. It's very interesting and because it has predictive value (in elections, for instance, and for predicting which states will pass which kinds of laws) it seems to be pretty solid.

Maybe "UK" was the wrong word, I was going to use British but didn't want to get slapped down if that specifically meant England only instead of UK-wide. That being said, I was stationed in the UK for a year and traveled pretty extensively across the island. I'd say there are strong similarities wherever you went regarding architecture, cuisine, sports and entertainment (aka pretty much everyone loves soccer and rugby), history, interest/loyalty to the royal family, music, etc. And of course language. That's not to say that there aren't some major political and regional points of view or tradition, only that someone from Edinburgh has far more in common with a Londoner than say a Parisian or Berliner.

So sorry not buying that America isn't a real culture and that our differences are so great that we might as well be 11 different nations. At least not yet.

Language. Americans speak one language - American English.

LarryC wrote:

Language. Americans speak one language - American English.

You sure about that? There's plenty of places all over south and central Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, and southern California where Spanish is either the only spoken/written language or it's the primary one with English being in small text underneath or people speaking it after realizing you don't know Spanish.

As an outsider, I'd say the US has a certain flavour about it whether I'm taking about the Pacific Midwest or the Deep South. I hestitate to speak about cultural stuff for other countries, but that seems to indicate something of a unified culture, even if there are certainly other very strong subcultures as well.

Personally I've always found modern Australia to be a bit cultureless.

.....

Also, for things a foreigner has trouble understanding about you, I've never really understood your fascination with guns. Real guns that is, fake ones of the nerf or virtual variety are lots of fun, but real ones seem the antithesis of fun.

It's like collecting and celebrating deadly poisons or diseases. Weird dude. Weird.

Everyone has their quirks though. We like AFL for some reason...

Redwing wrote:

As an outsider, I'd say the US has a certain flavour about it whether I'm taking about the Pacific Midwest or the Deep South. I hestitate to speak about cultural stuff for other countries, but that seems to indicate something of a unified culture, even if there are certainly other very strong subcultures as well.

Personally I've always found modern Australia to be a bit cultureless.

.....

Also, for things a foreigner has trouble understanding about you, I've never really understood your fascination with guns. Real guns that is, fake ones of the nerf or virtual variety are lots of fun, but real ones seem the antithesis of fun.

It's like collecting and celebrating deadly poisons or diseases. Weird dude. Weird.

Everyone has their quirks though. We like AFL for some reason...

There is absolutely nothing weird about my curare collection.

Talking to my ex-gf about this now. "Americans have dirty asses for sure," she says. She scolded me for forgetting about this. She really hates how most American shower heads aren't extendable. Apparently they are in Europe.

Bloo Driver wrote:
LarryC wrote:

Language. Americans speak one language - American English.

You sure about that? There's plenty of places all over south and central Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, and southern California where Spanish is either the only spoken/written language or it's the primary one with English being in small text underneath or people speaking it after realizing you don't know Spanish.

If you can expect any American to know and speak American English, then yes, it is. Whatever other language they know or prefer to speak is irrelevant. I was under the impression that most second generation immigrants are native English speakers. I also thought that being fluent in English was necessary for naturalization. Are these not considered normal?

cheeba wrote:

Talking to my ex-gf about this now. "Americans have dirty asses for sure," she says. She scolded me for forgetting about this. She really hates how most American shower heads aren't extendable. Apparently they are in Europe.

Guess what was the first thing my wife and I bought when we moved here.
Seriously, what contortions do you people perform to reach those places?

Slacker1913 wrote:
cheeba wrote:

Talking to my ex-gf about this now. "Americans have dirty asses for sure," she says. She scolded me for forgetting about this. She really hates how most American shower heads aren't extendable. Apparently they are in Europe.

Guess what was the first thing my wife and I bought when we moved here.
Seriously, what contortions do you people perform to reach those places?

Okay, now I'm interested. What do you mean by "extendable"? I'm currently imagining something like a vacuum cleaner's telescopic tube instead of the head having a flexible tube behind it (as opposed to being fixed on the wall)...

Bad choice of words, but it was late :P. European shower heads are typically the kind with the flexible tube.
IMAGE(http://www.ski-epic.com/2007_europe_motorcycle_trip/pc9s_austrian_bathroom_shower_faucet.jpg)

Redwing wrote:

I've never really understood your fascination with guns. Real guns that is, fake ones of the nerf or virtual variety are lots of fun, but real ones seem the antithesis of fun.

It's like collecting and celebrating deadly poisons or diseases. Weird dude. Weird.

Everyone has their quirks though. We like AFL for some reason...

Now who's perverse? Guns often kill quickly and cleanly (relatively speaking). AFL seems designed to cause pain and suffering.

LarryC wrote:
Bloo Driver wrote:
LarryC wrote:

Language. Americans speak one language - American English.

You sure about that? There's plenty of places all over south and central Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, and southern California where Spanish is either the only spoken/written language or it's the primary one with English being in small text underneath or people speaking it after realizing you don't know Spanish.

If you can expect any American to know and speak American English, then yes, it is. Whatever other language they know or prefer to speak is irrelevant. I was under the impression that most second generation immigrants are native English speakers. I also thought that being fluent in English was necessary for naturalization. Are these not considered normal?

But... I just said there's swaths of the country where majority populations don't speak English. Do not speak it. They might have picked up a few random words or gestures to help get them by when they run into folks outside this bubble, but yeah. Non-english-speaking communities. They're not tiny rare households here and there. They're certainly not the majority of the country, either, but it's not insignificant.

Stengah wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

Politically, I think the thing that surprised me most is the expectation that you declare a party affiliation when you register to vote. "Guys, doesn't that ruin some of the suspense?"

Well, there's no law that says you *have* to vote for the party you register as, if you even register as one.

No, of course. Nor is there a law saying you have to register with a party.

But those decisions cause consequences. I'm still trying to figure out the voting system. It seems to be one of these by-state balkanized systems.

A longer explanation of the 11 nations thing is in the author's alumni magazine, using it as a lens on gun control laws (but the map and descriptions are all in the article).

Pretty fascinating. Kind of explains why folks here are complacent and seem given to religious capitalism (the worship of and belief in the infallibility of those with capital).

I'm really not buying that the existence muscle cars and jazz music supports the idea of a uniquely and universally American culture. Jazz may be uniquely American, but let's be honest - it's more accurate to call it uniquely New Orleanian; I don't see a lot of universal embrace of jazz music in plenty of other areas, where honky tonk and/or modern grunge rock reign as equally uniquely American and equally non-universal American themes.

And muscle cars are an even more baldly bad example. Even here in muscle car central, there's no more universal love of non-blown, inefficient, loud, environmental monstrosities than there is of their Japanese and German competition. Sure, the Mustang and Camaro still heavily outsell their competition in Michigan, but that's not true nationwide. (And do I need to point out that the markedly non-muscly, v6 versions of both those cars match or outsell their v8 counterparts?)

Edit - and, yikes, BBQ alone is a perfect microcosm for how we're more akin to cultural nation states than a universal nation.

I don't necessarily agree with Robear's assertion (yet), but cars and music support his point, rather than weakening it.

Not to be that guy, but aren't most of the "best" crazy over-priced and over-powered cars made by European manufacturers? Wouldn't that make over-powered cars MORE of a European thing than an American thing?

Sure, but European city planning, architecture, and culture isn't centered around owning a car the way things are in the United States.

Demosthenes wrote:

Not to be that guy, but aren't most of the "best" crazy over-priced and over-powered cars made by European manufacturers? Wouldn't that make over-powered cars MORE of a European thing than an American thing?

Ah but they're not muscle cars, super cars can go around corners, muscle cars ... not so much

Demosthenes wrote:

Not to be that guy, but aren't most of the "best" crazy over-priced and over-powered cars made by European manufacturers? Wouldn't that make over-powered cars MORE of a European thing than an American thing?

And aren't most American consumer products made overseas? Perhaps one of the defining characteristics of our culture is that we don't make a damn thing.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

Not to be that guy, but aren't most of the "best" crazy over-priced and over-powered cars made by European manufacturers? Wouldn't that make over-powered cars MORE of a European thing than an American thing?

And aren't most American consumer products made overseas? Perhaps one of the defining characteristics of our culture is that we don't make a damn thing. ;)

We make and export weapons and democracy.

At the same time!

Seth wrote:

I'm really not buying that the existence muscle cars and jazz music supports the idea of a uniquely and universally American culture. Jazz may be uniquely American, but let's be honest - it's more accurate to call it uniquely New Orleanian; I don't see a lot of universal embrace of jazz music in plenty of other areas, where honky tonk and/or modern grunge rock reign as equally uniquely American and equally non-universal American themes.

I guess I don't get why something has to be universal to be considered American culture.

And muscle cars are an even more baldly bad example. Even here in muscle car central, there's no more universal love of non-blown, inefficient, loud, environmental monstrosities than there is of their Japanese and German competition. Sure, the Mustang and Camaro still heavily outsell their competition in Michigan, but that's not true nationwide. (And do I need to point out that the markedly non-muscly, v6 versions of both those cars match or outsell their v8 counterparts?)

I'm talking about the actual 1960's. Just take a look at the cars from America during that time and the cars from Europe and you will see a stark difference. The American dominance in muscle cars back then is used as inspiration today. And there is no competition. There are no Japanese or German muscle cars. I guess you could count the Mercedes SLS AMG as a muscle car, maybe, but its price is $300k, so I wouldn't really call it a good example of a muscle car, lol. Jay Leno told a good story on his Jay Leno's Garage series where he was talking to German engineers who were showing him a car, and he asked if it did burnouts. The German automotive engineers didn't know what a burnout was and had no idea why someone would want to do such a thing.

You see car and hot rod shows in just about every town in America, and they're dominated with classic American automobiles.

If you don't want to accept muscle cars as uniquely American (even though some of the definitions I'm seeing in a search indicate that muscle cars are by definition American), then what about American motorcycles? Harley Davidson.

I'd say we should do a new thread for American culture but it'd probably just get locked :P.

cheeba wrote:

I'd say we should do a new thread for American culture but it'd probably just get locked :P.

Eh, this is P&C. It's about the journey, not the destination

clover wrote:

Eh, this is P&C. It's about the journey, not the destination :D

The destination is always Cleveland anyway.

Gravey wrote:
clover wrote:

Eh, this is P&C. It's about the journey, not the destination :D

The destination is always Cleveland anyway.

There's something immigrants wouldn't expect. Here in America, our major corporations hold food drives for their employees!

clover wrote:
Gravey wrote:
clover wrote:

Eh, this is P&C. It's about the journey, not the destination :D

The destination is always Cleveland anyway.

There's something immigrants wouldn't expect. Here in America, our major corporations hold food drives for their employees!

*Wal-mart manager dusts off hands with a satisfied smile* Symptom--addressed!

EDIT: Canadian relatives visiting are shocked to see how many seniors are working "menial" jobs.

clover wrote:
Gravey wrote:
clover wrote:

Eh, this is P&C. It's about the journey, not the destination :D

The destination is always Cleveland anyway.

There's something immigrants wouldn't expect. Here in America, our major corporations hold food drives for their employees!

...wow... that is... damn.

"How are you" - Europeans are apparently surprised that Americans will ask that question while not really caring about the answer. We use it as a greeting and expect "good" or "fine" or whatever as a formality, rather than an in-depth analysis of how the person is actually doing.

cheeba wrote:

"How are you" - Europeans are apparently surprised that Americans will ask that question while not really caring about the answer. We use it as a greeting and expect "good" or "fine" or whatever as a formality, rather than an in-depth analysis of how the person is actually doing.

That's regional, too. In my experience, "how are you?" and "how ya doin'?" are greetings in most of the US but questions in the South and parts of Texas.

Is that not also a British thing?