World of Tanks: Catch All

Farscry wrote:

Oh, one thing to point out about premium rounds: while there are some exceptions when it's still useful, in general if you're using a gun that fires only HE rounds (no AP), then just stick with those and don't bother with the premium HEAT rounds. They still have low enough pen values in most cases to be all but useless.

APCR is the premium round type that's actually useful in most cases.

Yea, not at all true. Here's a couple of easy comparisons:

M4 105mm: 410/350 HP 53/101mm HE/HEAT - Nearly double the pen for HEAT vs HE.
Hetzer 10.5cm: 350/350/410 HP 64/104/53 mm - Again, nearly double the pen for HEAT.
M103: 400/400/515 HP 242/340/60 mm - Those are AP/HEAT/HE; HEAT has 4x the pen of HE and nearly 100mm more pen than AP.

As I said, there are exceptions. Additionally, the pen ratings are going to be more [edit]overpowering/irrelevant?[/edit] for HE mechanics at lower tiers (4 and below in particular).

It also matters where you're hitting the tank you're firing at. Spaced sections, such as tracks, will result in even more loss of damage from a HEAT round than an APCR round due to the damage mechanics of HEAT versus AP. So depending on where you're hitting a tank and how their armor is setup, a HEAT round with even higher pen than an AP round but with the same damage rating may do less damage.

It also adds to the confusion that HEAT shells don't follow the same mechanics as either AP or HE shells. Lert's guide to shells is my favorite resource that I've found. Short version is that depending on your target, different shells will provide varying degrees of usefulness.

I'm not a scrub or ignorant at this game; check my stats if you don't believe me. I don't pretend to be the expert, but I'm not talking out of my ass either. I did phrase it exceptionally poorly in my previous response though, you are correct (by not explaining the differences in what the pen value actually means for a given shell type).

Thanks folks. I must be having a bonehead problem for I have diddled with the premium rounds, but never seem to get it to work:)

Btw, what's a good average fps folks get? I range from mid 20's to high 30's. Definitely noticing some lag with the former figure.

I'd say if you're 30+ you're fine for fps. I get 60+ but I run a pretty beefy computer build, so that's not exactly a fair comparison.

Also, if you haven't, you should definitely read through Lert's guides on the official forums, they're great information and even if you already know the game well you never know what tips you might pick up there. I actually re-read them and other guides posted on the official boards and WoTLabs periodically just to serve as reminders. Helps when I start to slip into bad habits again!

I've really only taken the game more "seriously" in terms of gameplay since mid-summer, so around 1k games ago. The historical data on my stats really shows the difference when you look at my entire record versus my "last 1000 games" record. I'm still very much working to improve, but it's nice to be able to see the difference I've made. I can actually be a positive influence on my team most of the time now!

Farscry wrote:

As I said, there are exceptions. Additionally, the pen ratings are going to be more [edit]overpowering/irrelevant?[/edit] for HE mechanics at lower tiers (4 and below in particular).

It also matters where you're hitting the tank you're firing at. Spaced sections, such as tracks, will result in even more loss of damage from a HEAT round than an APCR round due to the damage mechanics of HEAT versus AP. So depending on where you're hitting a tank and how their armor is setup, a HEAT round with even higher pen than an AP round but with the same damage rating may do less damage.

It also adds to the confusion that HEAT shells don't follow the same mechanics as either AP or HE shells. Lert's guide to shells is my favorite resource that I've found. Short version is that depending on your target, different shells will provide varying degrees of usefulness.

I'm not a scrub or ignorant at this game; check my stats if you don't believe me. I don't pretend to be the expert, but I'm not talking out of my ass either. I did phrase it exceptionally poorly in my previous response though, you are correct (by not explaining the differences in what the pen value actually means for a given shell type).

Yea, if you want to generalize HEAT vs HE in terms of pen, it's really on the russians afaik that don't have a massive bump in pen, and spaced armor does indeed have an effect, but if you're careful about not shooting it(in practice, there are very few tanks with spaced armor beyond the tracks, so in most cases it's moot) there(hitting turrets , front, rear) then HEAT is going to be a huge boon over HE in your typical 'derp' tanks such as the M4 or the Hetzer.

So I finally bought a set of binoculars and a camo net since I've been playing a lot more light tanks lately. Took a hit in funds until I noticed I was most of the way through the "Tanking 24/7" mission, just needed another 8 kills for 250k. Went on a bit of a crappy streak of matches, so I bought a T57 and spent about 30 minutes sniping newbies. Really helped replenish my funds.

If you're hurting for credits, there's a couple routes you can go. First, buy a tier 8 premium. Jagdtiger 8.8 is probably the best net earner that's easily obtainable, but buy whatever matches the kind of tanks you like to play; none of them are slouches when it comes to earning credits. I've netted 60-80k without premium time in a Lowe.

The other option is to find a tier 5 tank that you really enjoy; personally, I keep the BDR G1 around for this purpose. In a good match, I can net 20k or more, which is pretty close to what you'd get in a bad match with a tier 8 premium.

Tier 8 Premium is a good investment, but you should buy it only if it will serve you as a crew training machine as well as credits. I.e you like french quick and nimble heavies with a revolver, go for French premium.
if you like hull down position fighting, go T 34,
Russian IS premium is just a major pain in the ass to play against (like any other IS), but I never played it,
also I cannot say much about Lowe.

I bought the Lowe when it was the only tier 8 premium available; it's served me well despite only having recently started running the German heavy line. As a tank, it's a fantastic vehicle, with excellent penetration and damage and good ROF. I would agree that if there's a premium vehicle that matches up with your favorite line to buy that one; but not to feel constrained by that either.

Farscry wrote:

I'd say if you're 30+ you're fine for fps. I get 60+ but I run a pretty beefy computer build, so that's not exactly a fair comparison.

Also, if you haven't, you should definitely read through Lert's guides on the official forums, they're great information and even if you already know the game well you never know what tips you might pick up there. I actually re-read them and other guides posted on the official boards and WoTLabs periodically just to serve as reminders. Helps when I start to slip into bad habits again!

I've really only taken the game more "seriously" in terms of gameplay since mid-summer, so around 1k games ago. The historical data on my stats really shows the difference when you look at my entire record versus my "last 1000 games" record. I'm still very much working to improve, but it's nice to be able to see the difference I've made. I can actually be a positive influence on my team most of the time now!

Thanks!

Does WoT actually model each tank with it's particular weakness? I know you go for the turret ring, or the threads, but some tanks have a weaknesses more in one spot or the other.

Also have the weakened the Hellcat? I swear, some of these higher tier tank threads must be made with carbonite steel. I mean I hit and hit on a side shot no less at their tank threads and all I get is, 'ding'. (I'm pretty sure carb steel is only been around for 10-15 years too;)

Tank treads on a lot of tanks act as spaced armor and can distinctly impact a round's ballistics; it's why I'd mentioned specifically looking for other soft spots to hit, such as the turret(outside the mantlet), lower glacis, view ports, machine gun ports and the commander's cupola(some of these I did not mention). So what's happening to you is that the track is eating the shell, which is a fairly common and annoying occurence, and since you're not likely hitting a driver or tension sprocket, you're not tracking them either.

As for weak spots in general, I'd say that WGA does indeed model them to an extent; most of the weak points I listed are consistently so across tanks, and the Maus has a notorious weak point in the turret ring that to my understanding is historically accurate. I'm sure there are other examples out there as well, I'm just not super familiar with them.

Make sure to shoot at their drive wheels (the cog one) if you want to track them from the side. The added benefit is that their engine is usually around there somewhere as well. So you stand a chance of putting them on fire if you actually pen.

MoonDragon wrote:

Make sure to shoot at their drive wheels (the cog one) if you want to track them from the side. The added benefit is that their engine is usually around there somewhere as well. So you stand a chance of putting them on fire if you actually pen.

Yep. Also, I don't know why it occured to me, but in the rare case that you're shooting at the right hand side of a Type 59, don't be shy about shooting them 2 or 3(can't remember which exactly) sprockets back of the lead; if you pen it and get lucky, you can ammo rack one shooting there.

Thanks for the pointers and information folks (I should of remembered about the 'cogs' Moon', but haven't so thanks for jiggling my memory:)

Could point's too (as usual!) AnimeJ. It seem's like tank science is a necessity to really excel. I do believe I never will then...but I'll keep trying;)

Donan wrote:

Could point's too (as usual!) AnimeJ. It seem's like tank science is a necessity to really excel. I do believe I never will then...but I'll keep trying;)

Meh.

After 10000 games played... my moto is, aim centre mass and shoot. Only about 20% of the shots deserve any other kind of consideration. If you go up against someone with thick armour and your penetration marker is yellow or red, then you gotta shop around for a weak spot (ports, joints, equipment, and so on). If you're close in to someone and need a tactical advantage, so you shoot the tracks, or engine, or ammo rack. If you have derp gun, or are a scout that can load HE, try to disable the enemy tank by tracking them and/or shooting out their gun. Beyond that... don't worry about the details.

The only thing you need to worry about are angles. The angles win and lose battles. If you can angle your body in such a way as to provide 15 degree angle to the enemy, they will have a hell of a time penetrating you. That also means you shouldn't bother shooting at someone who is at extreme angle to you, or tanks that have extreme angled armour. Aim for a flat spot, or aim at their bottom. This is one of the reasons why IS-6 (Russian T8 premium tank mentioned above) is such a pain to go up against. All damn angles and such. Can never get a good shot at it. Also, you wouldn't believe how many times I bounced a shot from T9 heavy in my T5 ELC scout. Always, always, always make an angle with your body. But never such that they have a good shot to your side.

This seem's like a what, a touchy, or 'no one care's therefore no one really say's much about it...' subject. But, having seen it pop up a few times and go nowhere. I'm curious about the reasons. (and I too new, and statistically challenged to probablyto play anyway). But why is there not a GWJ Clan?

Reasons:

1)Too expensive?
2) Too much time has to be committed?
3) Therefore not enough people to form one?
4) Folks belong to other Clans and are too serious to play GWJ casual style:)

Just curious. I honestly am more of a solitaire gamer. But I do enjoy team play with folks I know, more for the banter and camaraderie. And when I play WoT, allot of the 'chat' is throwaway stuff, but allot of times it's also banter and inside jokes etc. And it would be fun to play with GWJ folks and enjoy such things.

Anyway, just an innocent asking...

It's been touched on, but the short version is that all a Clan gets you is access to CW(we are nowhere near serious or good enough for this) and a chat channel. Since CW won't likely ever be a thing, and you can roll a channel in game, there's no point in blowing 2500 gold on a clan.

AnimeJ wrote:

It's been touched on, but the short version is that all a Clan gets you is access to CW(we are nowhere near serious or good enough for this) and a chat channel. Since CW won't likely ever be a thing, and you can roll a channel in game, there's no point in blowing 2500 gold on a clan.

O.k. Maybe I'm interpreting things wrong. Are all those folks with the bracketed initials I see in the game part of a Clans? Or something else? Because if they are Clans, I would say half are not that great (or maybe they are just going thru their low tiered tanks and don't care much or trying new things for kicks). It also seems to me, now having played a couple tho', that maybe 1/5 or 1/6 folks who play have those 'bracketed' initials...in that mean's clans. That's allot in the realm of things methinks. So again, maybe I'm missing something.
Whatever, like I mentioned, I'm new and the nuances of such things, if any, don't add up to everyone being so dang good or serious (looking at their stats too). Oh well, no big and not wanting a big 'deal' about it. Just curious:)

Not a question of skill, question of commitment. Most GWJers embrace a more laid back, casual approach to gaming. The time needed, investment of effort needed, to particpate effectively in the end game, that's what most GWJers don't have. Some by choice, some by real life constraints (family, work, health, etc). This is seen in pretty much every MMO GWJers play, WoW Alliance side (and to a less extant Guild Wars 2) is about it for serious end game action. And even there, it lapses between expansions.

LtWarhound wrote:

Not a question of skill, question of commitment. Most GWJers embrace a more laid back, casual approach to gaming. The time needed, investment of effort needed, to particpate effectively in the end game, that's what most GWJers don't have. Some by choice, some by real life constraints (family, work, health, etc). This is seen in pretty much every MMO GWJers play, WoW Alliance side (and to a less extant Guild Wars 2) is about it for serious end game action. And even there, it lapses between expansions.

That's what I figured. (Gears and Beers aside;). Good groups it seems in Star Trek On-Line; WoW; LOTRO etc.. Easier cause you just show up when you can and if enough folks, do a quest or something. Seems in WoT it's not so easy to 'show up and play'. Gotta have set times etc, right?

Anyway, totally agree this is the case with GWJ and it's a good thing:)

I always suspected that WoT is such an antisocial game because the social communication is so poorly implemented. Half of the times that someone messages me, I don't even see the damn message. The windows are awkward and often I close them instead of minimizing. Grouping is not intuitive. Tank selection and starting of games is not intuitive. All around it's just awkward.

In part to remedy that, I've added WoT to Steam as a non-steam game. But when I play it and hope to hook up with others I start the game through Steam. At least that way people can see in Steam that I'm playing it. And can message me through Steam if they want to hook up.

MoonDragon wrote:

I always suspected that WoT is such an antisocial game because the social communication is so poorly implemented. Half of the times that someone messages me, I don't even see the damn message. The windows are awkward and often I close them instead of minimizing. Grouping is not intuitive. Tank selection and starting of games is not intuitive. All around it's just awkward.

In part to remedy that, I've added WoT to Steam as a non-steam game. But when I play it and hope to hook up with others I start the game through Steam. At least that way people can see in Steam that I'm playing it. And can message me through Steam if they want to hook up.

I'll keep a look out. I've had folks tell me to use Vent or TeamSpeak, so I've set those up. But really haven't used them in years, so really have not a clue, although I'm sure it's fairly easy. I'd just love to have someone to watch each other's flanks and such. Many a time I see folks around me in a furball, then 'bang' their gone without me noticing and I get a flank or rear shot. Frustrating and of course on me for not watching the mini-map etc. for better situational awareness. But still...:)

Donan wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

It's been touched on, but the short version is that all a Clan gets you is access to CW(we are nowhere near serious or good enough for this) and a chat channel. Since CW won't likely ever be a thing, and you can roll a channel in game, there's no point in blowing 2500 gold on a clan.

O.k. Maybe I'm interpreting things wrong. Are all those folks with the bracketed initials I see in the game part of a Clans? Or something else? Because if they are Clans, I would say half are not that great (or maybe they are just going thru their low tiered tanks and don't care much or trying new things for kicks). It also seems to me, now having played a couple tho', that maybe 1/5 or 1/6 folks who play have those 'bracketed' initials...in that mean's clans. That's allot in the realm of things methinks. So again, maybe I'm missing something.
Whatever, like I mentioned, I'm new and the nuances of such things, if any, don't add up to everyone being so dang good or serious (looking at their stats too). Oh well, no big and not wanting a big 'deal' about it. Just curious:)

Nope, those are clans. But none of them are particularly competitive; someone paid 2500 gold to have a chat channel, which is about where we'd be at.

Competing in CW takes a lot of effort. 3 nights a week of CW matches to take/defend land is a must, and if you're doing that and want to do more than just get stomped night after night, you'll need 15 people to show up each night, and you'll need at least 2, preferably three tier 10 tanks per player. Plus time spent putting strats together by map, and all the rest. And even if you do all that, bear in mind that most of the landholding clans are fielding teams of unicums; 55-60% WR, 1500-2k WN7 players.

TL;DR: it's a lot of effort, and you have to pay real money to get into it.

I actually use non-verbal communication at times. I'll pull up on someone's flank if I want to operate with them, and start doing "the right thing" to either keep them safe or work an enemy they are on. If you want someone to advance, pull up slightly behind and to one side and wait. That sort of thing works well with the people who know what they are doing. It works not at all for people who are not interested or clueless on tactics, in which case, hopefully you've not put yourself in the line of fire yet.

If you put someone else center stage in the role their tank is suited for, very often they will team with you. If you play as if you're solo, even in a group that is fighting together, you'll often be ignored or blocked or the like. It's a weird thing, but see if you don't notice it now.

That's a lot of why I started running XVM Ro. Knowing that the guy next to you is a 42% WR player and doesn't have a clue as to anything of tactical or strategic importance is helpful, as is knowing that if you go the other way, there's a couple of 52% WR players, you'll more than likely be well supported when you really push the flank.

Granted, it's not entirely perfect; I've seen players with solid stats flub about just as badly as players with garbage stats, but I find it works well most times.

AnimeJ wrote:

That's a lot of why I started running XVM Ro. Knowing that the guy next to you is a 42% WR player and doesn't have a clue as to anything of tactical or strategic importance is helpful, as is knowing that if you go the other way, there's a couple of 52% WR players, you'll more than likely be well supported when you really push the flank.

Granted, it's not entirely perfect; I've seen players with solid stats flub about just as badly as players with garbage stats, but I find it works well most times.

What's, 'XVM Ro'? That brings up something I've been meaning to ask, what mod's do most folks use, if at all? (one's that are easy to implement, not needing programming skills etc...)

XVM is a mod for the game; Ro is Robear.

As for mods, I'm running Anfield's for 8.9; it's pretty exceptional. Here's a rundown of what you get out of it:

- Jimbo's Crosshair
- Zoom out mod; gets you a view of the whole battlefield like arty
- Two row carousel for tanks
- Session statistics(tracks your overall stats while logged in
- Color battle results(makes it easier to parse)
- Locastan's HD minimap(tracks last known opfor locations, shows max view range, max draw distance, line of fire from your gun)
- XVM (lists statistics for all players in the match)

There's a video linked on the page with a rundown of it in action as well as a quick how-to install it, but all you have to do is delete your res_mods and replace it with the downloaded one.

I run this modpack if interested...

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.p...

I also use the carousel mod to help with garage clutter.

I've used Aslain's XVM, but wasn't a fan. Too cluttered and busy for my tastes.