Microsoft Surface

I am a little bit put off by two things.

1. The 512 gig SSD is a $500 premium over the 256 gig. That seems to be excessive. Throw in a type cover or dock for that incremental price.
2. If I buy the surface pro this fall (I am in the market for a new laptop), I will have to buy two type covers, one now and one next year because I want the cover with the integrated battery.

I will probably buy a 256 gig model...

Is it only an "all day battery" with the power cover?

Kurrelgyre wrote:

Is it only an "all day battery" with the power cover?

I assume so.

The specification page boasts that the battery will last on standby for over a week!

So the first PRO got about 4 hours of battery life and Haswell + battery cover gives is 2.5 times the battery life. So I assume that I will need the power cover for all day power.

For tablets I've always been in the iPad camp, but Surface 2 Pro is appealing. I'm not expecting anything revolutionary in the iPad 5 that would really justify getting it over my 3, but the Surface 2 seems like something I could get some real use out of. Kinda torn on which to get, especially when in reality I don't "need" either given all the other laptops/phones/tablets/ereaders I've collected. The sickness goes on and on...

aphesian wrote:

Kinda torn on which to get, especially when in reality I don't "need" either given all the other laptops/phones/tablets/ereaders I've collected. The sickness goes on and on...

If your collection contains a few iPhones and/or iPads that you can live without, Microsoft is offering $200 store credit for trade ins...

TexasRay wrote:
aphesian wrote:

Kinda torn on which to get, especially when in reality I don't "need" either given all the other laptops/phones/tablets/ereaders I've collected. The sickness goes on and on...

If your collection contains a few iPhones and/or iPads that you can live without, Microsoft is offering $200 store credit for trade ins...

I don't see any mention of iPhones in that offer. Am I missing something?

Jeebus...$1800 for the 512GB version? As badly as I want it there's no way I can justify that to the wife. Or myself, really.

$1800 would build me a really nice new desktop rig, and probably have some dosh left over. Even $1300 for the 256 is kinda ridiculous. I wish there was an upgrade / trade-in program for the original Pro. I picked mine up last month because we were flush with cash and the CFO said jump on it. I knew an announcement was coming, but sometimes you gotta pull the trigger while the wife is feeling generous.

Maybe I can convince her it will be my Steambox?

bighoppa wrote:

Jeebus...$1800 for the 512GB version? As badly as I want it there's no way I can justify that to the wife. Or myself, really.

$1800 would build me a really nice new desktop rig, and probably have some dosh left over. Even $1300 for the 256 is kinda ridiculous. I wish there was an upgrade / trade-in program for the original Pro. I picked mine up last month because we were flush with cash and the CFO said jump on it. I knew an announcement was coming, but sometimes you gotta pull the trigger while the wife is feeling generous.

Maybe I can convince her it will be my Steambox?

I think its about $200 too high.. they should have basically price matched against an 8GB 256GB or 512GB Macbook Air.

TheGameguru wrote:
bighoppa wrote:

Jeebus...$1800 for the 512GB version? As badly as I want it there's no way I can justify that to the wife. Or myself, really.

$1800 would build me a really nice new desktop rig, and probably have some dosh left over. Even $1300 for the 256 is kinda ridiculous. I wish there was an upgrade / trade-in program for the original Pro. I picked mine up last month because we were flush with cash and the CFO said jump on it. I knew an announcement was coming, but sometimes you gotta pull the trigger while the wife is feeling generous.

Maybe I can convince her it will be my Steambox?

I think its about $200 too high.. they should have basically price matched against an 8GB 256GB or 512GB Macbook Air.

Especially considering you're going to be buying another $200 or so worth of accessories.

soonerjudd wrote:

I don't see any mention of iPhones in that offer. Am I missing something?

There is an offer above it about iPhones:

Microsoft Ad wrote:

•Bring in your gently used iPhone 4S or iPhone 5 and get a minimum of a $200 gift card to the Microsoft store.

Ah, silly me, didn't scroll through the rest of the page. Thought it was a specific reference to the Surface offer. Oh well. Guess my old iPhone doesn't cut it, and I'm still using my 4S.

I wish I had never read the comments about Microsoft essentially breaking a laptop into separate pieces, and then selling those pieces to you for exaggerated prices. For the most part they are right. They moved the guts behind the screen and made the keyboard a detachable thin wafer. I know the end result is worth more than merely the sum of its separated parts, but that notion still nags at me. If I could just pull the screen off my MBP, and have it wirelessly communicate with the left behind base while supporting touch and pressure sensitive stylus input I'd be happy. Surely not too much to ask.

As for Microsoft's $200, I've been playing it loose on Craigslist with selling old iOS equipment, and, beyond the obvious low ballers, I haven't had a bad experience. I guess all it really takes is one quick unexpected knifing incident to change all that though

I stopped using my official cover.
Surface Pro + Quality Bluetooth keyboard + stylus > Surface Pro + over-priced keyboard cover.

aphesian wrote:

I guess all it really takes is one quick unexpected knifing incident to change all that though ;)

That's why the original host of Cheaters quit.

Eh, I think that I am going for a tricked out Lenovo 230 and forgo Windows 8 and touch for this round.

Rezzy wrote:

I stopped using my official cover.
Surface Pro + Quality Bluetooth keyboard + stylus > Surface Pro + over-priced keyboard cover.

Your equation is unbalanced, and when corrected reduces to "Quality Bluetooth keyboard > over-priced keyboard cover." Which keyboard cover, though? I could see the Touch cover being tiring and pointless given that my 8th grade keyboarding class taught me to rest my fingers on the keys themselves.

Still interested. Anybody want to weigh in how good it is for playing games? Civ V, X-COM - that kind of thing.

The only reason for me to switch to a Windows Pro tablet is to play games.

Kurrelgyre wrote:
Rezzy wrote:

I stopped using my official cover.
Surface Pro + Quality Bluetooth keyboard + stylus > Surface Pro + over-priced keyboard cover.

Your equation is unbalanced, and when corrected reduces to "Quality Bluetooth keyboard > over-priced keyboard cover." Which keyboard cover, though? I could see the Touch cover being tiring and pointless given that my 8th grade keyboarding class taught me to rest my fingers on the keys themselves.

The equation was correct since the bluetooth keyboard normally does not include a trackpad or mouse buttons, which is why that side includes the stylus as a 'necessary' component. In my experience the trackpads on both the touch and type covers are functional, barely. Clicking is hit or miss, but that could be the Surface itself. Some programs don't seem to like being clicked when you could just touch the screen.

Moggy wrote:

Still interested. Anybody want to weigh in how good it is for playing games? Civ V, X-COM - that kind of thing.

The only reason for me to switch to a Windows Pro tablet is to play games.

I have Civ 5 and Xcom installed via Steam on my Pro. They both work fairly well, but I have accuracy issues with the touch interface in Xcom. Not a huge issue, since I can use a wired or BT mouse with it, but as I stated in the Xcom thread, some touch interface love would really be great. Civ 5 with the touch interface is wonderful. I haven't put in a ton of time on it because I'm obsessing over Xcom right now, but the time I did put in was very enjoyable. The downside is space. It's an issue. Granted, I haven't tried running a game off my 64GB SD card, but I'm guessing that's going to be a painful experience. With the OS, Office, Steam, Civ+some addins, Xcom+slingshot, and a few other apps from the store (like four), I've got about 5GB left on the internal drive.

Obviously one of the new Pro 2s with even a 128 or 256GB SSD wouldn't have this issue (and will even run games better), but they're going to be much pricier.

I love the device, and the touch interface is great (when things are optimized for it), but I have to take myself out of the mindset of 'it's a tablet.' It's an ultrabook sold without a keyboard.

As far as control issues go, you might want to check out GestureWorks. I've installed it on my Surface Pro, but it doesn't seem to work with 8.1 preview.

bighoppa wrote:
Moggy wrote:

Still interested. Anybody want to weigh in how good it is for playing games? Civ V, X-COM - that kind of thing.

The only reason for me to switch to a Windows Pro tablet is to play games.

I love the device, and the touch interface is great (when things are optimized for it), but I have to take myself out of the mindset of 'it's a tablet.' It's an ultrabook sold without a keyboard.

Good to know, thanks!

How good is the "tablet" for the things I'm now doing with my tablet - browsing; reading (Kindle and mobi) ? I have a battery keyboard for my Asus Transformer and tend only to use it when I'm doing serious typing (like emails). Otherwise I really like the form factor of a tablet. Especially reading in bed or during a meal.

Kindle is very nice. The text is very sharp and I don't have trouble reading despite some issues with my eyes.

My only problem with it in tablet mode is the weight. If you're using it for an extended session it can get a bit tiring to carry around. I used mine for an inventory spot-check a couple of weeks ago, and by lunchtime I wanted to put it down and go back to the paper forms. So I did. Granted, most folks might not be toting it around in-use for four or five hours, but it can be an issue depending on your habits.

After some consideration I decided to forego upgrading the iPad this generation, and instead picked up a Surface Pro 2 (128GB) last week. I've been very impressed with the tablet so far. It's oddly freeing to have a fully capable desktop OS on a tablet, and the pen input is incredibly accurate--OneNote's implementation is particularly well done.

I do think it is a bit too expensive, and they would be far more appealing if they included the type cover, but after studying the tablet and ultrabook offerings there really aren't any other packages that have quite the same feature set as Surface. I added a 64GB micro SD card, and, along with the 200GB of Skydrive storage they give you (for 2 years), I'm not feeling any pinch as far as drive space is concerned.

I've installed quite a few Steam games, and while touch support is lacking, hooking up an Xbox controller is always and option. Going to pick up Wolf Among Us tonight as I hear the touchscreen support is well done and it runs perfectly on the hardware.

I still love my iPad for their app selection, but after using full Windows 8.1 for a week, going back to iOS 7 seems limiting. I'd absolutely love to see an iPad Pro running a touch optimized OSX, but sadly Tim Cook seems to hate that idea.

aphesian wrote:

I do think it is a bit too expensive, and they would be far more appealing if they included the type cover...

I agree, but knowing what I know now those covers are truly optional. I've completely stopped using my type/touch covers and travel with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse instead. I just make extra sure that the Surface is the only thing in the protected pouch in my case.

Best Buy is selling Surface RT 32GB for $199 on Black Friday: http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/14/5...

After many many years working retail, I hate Black Friday with a fiery passion. But I might have to splurge and fight the angry hordes of Brooklyn for this one. I have an RT at work for testing and for web browsing and Netflix it's pretty solid, in my opinion.

aphesian wrote:

I've installed quite a few Steam games, and while touch support is lacking, hooking up an Xbox controller is always and option.

Civ V has a surprisingly useful Win 8 touch mode. Gotten me through a few plane rides.

I'm still leaning towards getting a Surface2, but I've been intrigued by the detachables. A little heavier, its true, but also available in 13" - which would fit my small carry case nicely - and with beefier specs.

Anyone here any experience with one and what do you think? Even better, anyone got one AND a Surface 2? Which do you prefer?

I'd wait and look at the Nokia 2520 before getting a Surface2.

Microsoft's real Surface 2 competitor: Nokia's Lumia tablet

Jayhawker wrote:

I'd wait and look at the Nokia 2520 before getting a Surface2.

Microsoft's real Surface 2 competitor: Nokia's Lumia tablet

Looks like it's an RT, though.

The more research I'm doing, the more likely I'm going to get a Hybrid. More expensive and heavier, true, but better for adding true game playing into the mix.

Moggy wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

I'd wait and look at the Nokia 2520 before getting a Surface2.

Microsoft's real Surface 2 competitor: Nokia's Lumia tablet

Looks like it's an RT, though.

The more research I'm doing, the more likely I'm going to get a Hybrid. More expensive and heavier, true, but better for adding true game playing into the mix.

In the end, not much after posting this, I decided to get the Dell XPS-12.

IMAGE(http://media.engadget.com/img/products/469/a2bx/a2bx-800.jpg)

After upsizing the CPU, memory and SSD, it's ~$1,400, so not cheap but pretty competitive against the Surface Pro. IN the end, it was it's trick rotating screen that clinched it.

It arrives on Tuesday (Merry Christmas to MEEEEEEE!), so I'll post up a mini-review before the end of the year.