Help Me Build My PC Catch-All

I've got the Z87 Pro with the internal wifi that tuffalo mentioned. It's built into the board, so there's no need to find a slot for it.

Malor wrote:
Stupid question - i am trying to figure out if the mother board has wifi, and couldn't see it indicated anywhere. Is it just buried in the technical specs somewhere in a manner I can't recognize?

I see no sign of WiFi on that board.

You're buying more power supply than you need, unless you're planning to add another video card. A 500 or 550 would be fine, as long as you're sticking with the one. What I'd probably do, were it my machine, is trade back on the PS to get into an Intel-brand SSD instead.

I do plan on moving up in a year or two to a dual monitor system and thus grabbing a second video card.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
Malor wrote:
Stupid question - i am trying to figure out if the mother board has wifi, and couldn't see it indicated anywhere. Is it just buried in the technical specs somewhere in a manner I can't recognize?

I see no sign of WiFi on that board.

I didn't see it. If you want integrated wi-fi up to N (no AC) you could just get the ASUS Z87 Pro. It comes with an antenna which should get you a little better reception than that USB dongle. The ROG Hero is stripped down a bit on the feature side of things to keep the price down. The components are probably a bit higher grade than the main line of motherboards, though.

Hmmm, I will have to make two builds, one with this board, and one with the Z87 Pro and see what the difference in price works out to be.

So, here is the altered build, with the changing of the mother board to the Z787 PRO and, as a result, the dropping of the USB Network Dongle. Due to the location of my router as compared to my PC, I would much rather have wifi built in as opposed to an external dongle, so I will more than likely be picking up what I have below i a couple of weeks when the government money comes in.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($334.99 @ NCIX)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.46 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($188.99 @ NCIX)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($136.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Crucial M500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.99 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($149.97 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Video Card ($339.00 @ Vuugo)
Case: NZXT Source 530 ATX Full Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 850W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($144.88 @ Canada Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro - OEM (64-bit) ($137.67 @ DirectCanada)
Monitor: Asus VG248QE 144Hz 24.0" Monitor ($279.79 @ DirectCanada)
Total: $2008.70
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-04 21:01 EST-0500)

Well, I prefer Win7, but other than that, it looks just about perfect to me. That will truly be a firebreathing monster.

Once upon a time, the machine you probably wanted was $3500, and the no-compromises box was $5K. That machine is looking awful short on compromise at $2K.

The only thing I am asking myself is whether I should bump up the $40 or so to get the 4GB 770 card. Will it make any appreciable difference with the monitor I will be using at all?

Malor wrote:

The Logitech G400 is sort of the default there, unless you know otherwise. No angle snapping, high DPI, comfortable feel, and easy access to 1000Hz polling. It's just about perfect.

Alternates if you prefer different a different mouse size or shape: Razer Deathadder Black Edition or 3.5G, CM Storm Spawn, CM Storm Recon, Roccat Kone Pure Optical, Roccat Savu, Zowie AM

All offer the same features but are essentially just shaped differently. I prefer both of CM Storm's optical mice to my G400, but the G400S is more popular overall for a reason. It's a good mouse. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them short of getting one you don't like the shape of

Figure out how much you want to spend, try and think about what kind of shape mouse you prefer using and how you grip it, and go from there.

mudbunny wrote:

The only thing I am asking myself is whether I should bump up the $40 or so to get the 4GB 770 card. Will it make any appreciable difference with the monitor I will be using at all?

It might for some newer games. BF4 with a lot of stuff cranked up can run up over the 2GB cards memory limit, for example, and cause some occasional little hiccups. That said, it IS an edge case for the time being and everything else out there runs fine on the 2GB card. I'd err on the side of the 4GB card, but I'm always a going to err on spending a bit more for a little peace of mind, sometimes probably to a fault.

Yeah, for $40, I'd probably go for the 4 gigger, too.

That's getting high enough that you might want to look at the new AMD cards, too.

Yeah, it's pure speculation right now, but I suspect you'll want the 4 GB before that card reaches the end of its useful lifetime, even at 1080p. But today, the only game I know of that pushes beyond 2 GB out of the box is Battlefield 4. I think you can pass that with downloaded texture packs in games like Fallout and Skyrim as well.

Malor wrote:

Yeah, for $40, I'd probably go for the 4 gigger, too.

That's getting high enough that you might want to look at the new AMD cards, too.

New AMD cards? Also, turns out in Canada, the difference is $70.

I'd third the going for 4 GB. I've run into at least one game that will use over 2 at 2560x1440. So, if you would ideally like the card to last a couple years, you might as well get 4 and never have to worry about it. My guess is that there will be a few games here and there that will take advantage of it at 1920x1080 within the next couple years.

Edit: Well, if it's $70 CAD more, that's a bit of a tough call for 1920x1080.

AMD is shipping some new models of graphic card that are offering much better price/performance than the existing NVidia ones. They're not widely available yet, but by the time you're ready to buy, they should be.

What I'd suggest would be putting that decision off until a few days before you're ready to pull the trigger. That will give NVidia time to react, and for prices to settle somewhat. The rest of your build is solid, just defer the final video card decision until immediately before the purchase.

Malor wrote:

AMD is shipping some new models of graphic card that are offering much better price/performance than the existing NVidia ones. They're not widely available yet, but by the time you're ready to buy, they should be.

What I'd suggest would be putting that decision off until a few days before you're ready to pull the trigger. That will give NVidia time to react, and for prices to settle somewhat. The rest of your build is solid, just defer the final video card decision until immediately before the purchase.

Thanks!!

For those in the ~$400 videocard market, Guru is 100% right. The R9 290 (non-X version) is an amazing deal. $85-$100 less than a GTX 780 even after the Nvidia price drops and beats it on performance pretty much across the board.

Is there a big chart of PC cases to help compare them to each other. Or maybe a reviewer that does cases the same way johnnyguru does for PSUs?

I'm trying to sort through the list but there is a bewildering array of them. All I know is that I don't need a full tower.

Tamren wrote:

Is there a big chart of PC cases to help compare them to each other. Or maybe a reviewer that does cases the same way johnnyguru does for PSUs?

I'm trying to sort through the list but there is a bewildering array of them. All I know is that I don't need a full tower.

I don't know of anybody that really focuses on them that way.

If you want a smaller case that's pretty great, imo the Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 is awesome.

Corsair and Fractal seem to be the leaders in Case Design right now.. thats not saying Antec and Lian Li still make quality cases but all things being considered you can't go wrong with a Corsair or Fractal case.

psoplayer wrote:
soonerjudd wrote:

Are there any advantages to getting a multi-button mouse such as the Logitech G600 for non-MMO purposes? Newegg has a pretty good deal on refurb units, and I could get it for about the same price as someone is offering a G400 on the trading thread for.

I still advocate something the G4 or G5 family. It's still a really good mouse but the ergonomics of the G600 are just a bit worse for my hands, and there's very little added benefit to having so many buttons outside of an MMO.

I just bought the wireless G602 (it was $60 last week on Amazon and newegg) and love it. I have mild carpel tunnel and the ergonomics are worlds better then the G500 it just replaced. Also it takes AA batteries and the battery life looks like it will be great.

So after reading the 290 reviews, it seems like a card to wait on the OEMs to get their own cooling solutions/non-reference designs on. That fan noise could potentially be eliminated with a better cooler solution.

MannishBoy wrote:

So after reading the 290 reviews, it seems like a card to wait on the OEMs to get their own cooling solutions/non-reference designs on. That fan noise could potentially be eliminated with a better cooler solution.

I only read the HardOCP review, but I don't think they talked about fan noise, it was the 95C heat that is a little scary. Apparently that's reference and safe, but I can imagine that it would heat your case up so much.... wouldn't be so much fun seeing your CPU raise 10 degrees because you stick in a new GPU.

Citizen86 wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

So after reading the 290 reviews, it seems like a card to wait on the OEMs to get their own cooling solutions/non-reference designs on. That fan noise could potentially be eliminated with a better cooler solution.

I only read the HardOCP review, but I don't think they talked about fan noise, it was the 95C heat that is a little scary. Apparently that's reference and safe, but I can imagine that it would heat your case up so much.... wouldn't be so much fun seeing your CPU raise 10 degrees because you stick in a new GPU.

Anandtech talks about the 290 getting a last minute fan speed increase in drivers for competitive reasons, from max speed of 40% to 47% so that it thermal throttles less. So it looks pretty noisy to me.

MannishBoy wrote:
Citizen86 wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

So after reading the 290 reviews, it seems like a card to wait on the OEMs to get their own cooling solutions/non-reference designs on. That fan noise could potentially be eliminated with a better cooler solution.

I only read the HardOCP review, but I don't think they talked about fan noise, it was the 95C heat that is a little scary. Apparently that's reference and safe, but I can imagine that it would heat your case up so much.... wouldn't be so much fun seeing your CPU raise 10 degrees because you stick in a new GPU.

Anandtech talks about the 290 getting a last minute fan speed increase in drivers for competitive reasons, from max speed of 40% to 47% so that it thermal throttles less. So it looks pretty noisy to me.

Hmm, that does look noisier... and doesn't seem to help much with the thermals... come oooooon aftermarket coolers

Ah, okay, that's explaining why AMD is able to do better than the 780 for less money: they're willing to go to higher run temps, and to emit a lot more exhaust heat. From a gamer perspective, this is typically fine, but pay attention to the cooling and noise levels. There's a reason why NVidia used to get pounded for shipping cards that sounded like hair dryers. If you're going to buy an aftermarket cooler, remember to tally its cost in your mental calculation of price/performance.

If you're using it constantly, like for compute, there's also run cost to consider. In actual practice, though, I'm not sure this is much of an issue. Most gamers won't care, because they won't use it enough to matter, and the AMD chips are so much stronger for actual compute work that the power bill will almost certainly be worth it. They're much better than the consumer NVidia cards in that space.

I am thinking of picking up a new GTX 770 to upgrade from my current GTX 570, and I was contemplating using my 570 as a dedicated PhysX card. Does anyone else do this? Are the performance gains worth power consumption?

Rumor has it that the 290 (non x) will list for $399. That is a game changing price.

edit

not a rumor.. confirmed..

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/...

Our performance results could not be any more clear. The AMD Radeon R9 290 provides the same gameplay experience and performance as the GeForce GTX 780 in a single-display gaming environment. The R9 290 provided the same performance as the GTX 780, and sometimes was even faster in terms of raw framerates. It is also clear that the Radeon R9 290 is a big upgrade from the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition and GeForce GTX 770.

This is an impressive release from AMD.. especially since..

Take some of the R9 290X specifications and scale those down to the R9 290. As previously mentioned, not all qualities of the 290X have been scaled down though. Many qualities remain at full R9 290X strength. The same GPU process, and transistor count is present on the R9 290 as the R9 290X. The same memory bus configuration is in place. You will find 4GB of GDDR5 on a 512-bit memory bus at 5GHz, just like the R9 290X. That means the memory bandwidth is exactly the same between the two video cards at 320GB/sec.

You will also find the same number of ROPs; 64 ROPs on both video cards. The R9 290 is in many ways like the R9 290X, and should provide excellent high resolution and AA performance.

The only thing I don't like about it is the heat. They say their review card hits 95C pretty constantly. I get that those temps are within spec for the card, but... I don't like it. I've got my case set up in a way that keeps my 670's at about 75C or below. 20C is a huge difference in heat output. Don't know if I can do those in my house in the summer time.

EriktheRed wrote:

I am thinking of picking up a new GTX 770 to upgrade from my current GTX 570, and I was contemplating using my 570 as a dedicated PhysX card. Does anyone else do this? Are the performance gains worth power consumption?

With a newer Nvidia card, I don't know if it's necessary. I think you should be able to enable full PhysX without turning down any graphic settings on all games that have it at 1080p, probably even 2560x1440 if you have a monitor that size.

Thin_J wrote:

The only thing I don't like about it is the heat. They say their review card hits 95C pretty constantly. I get that those temps are within spec for the card, but... I don't like it. I've got my case set up in a way that keeps my 670's at about 75C or below. 20C is a huge difference in heat output. Don't know if I can do those in my house in the summer time.

Best wait for non-reference cooling then.. downside is the companies will probably jack those versions up price wise fairly high.. I'm probably going to water cool mine as soon as I do my research and figure out what setup makes the most sense.. I'm not big on high maintenance water cooling but I understand its gotten loads better with Corsair's cases as you can easily mount the units outside for easy servicing.

Couple really adventurous types have bolted on 7970's aftermarket coolers and saw substantial temp drops (68-78) as well as noise @ load... But the VRM cooling right now in those isnt up to snuff and the cards VRM's are going nutso. I'm sure the Aftermarket Air cooling guys will eventually update their products for 290 specific cooling.

Citizen86 wrote:
EriktheRed wrote:

I am thinking of picking up a new GTX 770 to upgrade from my current GTX 570, and I was contemplating using my 570 as a dedicated PhysX card. Does anyone else do this? Are the performance gains worth power consumption?

With a newer Nvidia card, I don't know if it's necessary. I think you should be able to enable full PhysX without turning down any graphic settings on all games that have it at 1080p, probably even 2560x1440 if you have a monitor that size.

That 570 will be overpowered for it, but it's not like it's going to run full bore when used as a dedicated PhysX card. I'd totally use it for that purpose assuming you have a 750W PSU or higher (You might be able to get away with a 650W PSU). Looks like you can get $75 to $100 for them on Ebay. To me, that wouldn't be worth the hastle. I'd just use it as a PhysX card for fun. Whenever you have a game that has those different levels of PhysX settings, you'd be able to just crank it knowing it wouldn't affect your performance.

I played around with my SLI setup a little bit with Borderland 2 going between SLI and a dedicated PhysX card. In the end, just using SLI worked fine. I don't know what the actual performance hit PhysX will cause when pushing a graphics card to the limit.

Hope its OK if I ask this question here.

I installed my OS to a 128GB solid state drive, leaving little room for games. I frequently move my current game to the drive using symbolic links from the main HDD to avoid uninstalls/re-installs. My question is, will there be a speed hit using symbolic links vs installing the game to the drive? That is, does it have to access the HDD before each read, reducing the speed of the ssd?

Schmutzli wrote:

Hope its OK if I ask this question here.

I installed my OS to a 128GB solid state drive, leaving little room for games. I frequently move my current game to the drive using symbolic links from the main HDD to avoid uninstalls/re-installs. My question is, will there be a speed hit using symbolic links vs installing the game to the drive? That is, does it have to access the HDD before each read, reducing the speed of the ssd?

Nope.