Sudden HDCP failure on TV?

Apologies if there’s already a home theatre questions thread, I couldn’t find one.

The short version: My TV (LG 42LH30) has developed a problem displaying content with an HDMI-HDCP signal, and I’m looking for a repair or workaround option. Will a HDMI-VGA converter work?

The long version: The TV is ~4 years old, but is meant to be HDCP compliant. I had a BluRay player attached to it by HDMI for a year or so, then it suddenly stopped working through HDMI; component output still worked normally, but the HDMI output didn’t work. The audio worked fine, but there was no picture. I assumed that it was a problem with the HDMI output on the BluRay but didn’t worry about it further, as I was perfectly happy with the component cables (hardly ever watched BluRays and my receiver does component, but not HDMI, switching).

We also had an XBox 360 (circa 2006) hooked up to the TV by component cables (via the receiver). This worked out well until the 360 recently started freezing during GTA V and stuttering (video only, audio is fine) during NetFlix playback. We decided to replace the aging 360 and bought a shiny new 360 E. When I tried to hook it up to my TV using an HDMI cable (the only output type other than RCA video supported on the 360 E), the dashboard and games work fine. However, playing a DVD yield only the audio with a big XBox 360 logo, and NetFlix returns an error code R8161 “...due to an output protection error…”. Since it worked fine for the dashboard and for games, I started to get suspicious of the TV.

I tried switching the ends of the cable, and plugging it into all 3 of the HDMI inputs on the TV - same result. I tried the new 360 on another TV with the same cable - works perfectly. I tried the BluRay (which I thought was damaged) with another TV using the same cable - works perfectly. I haven’t yet tried another HDMI cable (rather not go buy one), but I’ll try it if there’s any reasonable chance this will solve the problem.

Based on this troubleshooting, my gut says that the new XBox and the BluRay are fine, but the TV HDCP system has failed. I suspect this was the problem when the BluRay stopped working several years ago, but I didn’t pursue it at that time. When I called LG, however, the tech support guy suggested that this was not possible, and that the problem must be with both the XBox and the BluRay - his explanation for the sudden failure of the previously working BluRay was that it must have downloaded an update that caused the TV to no longer be recognized. I find it somewhat unlikely that this is the cause in both cases - if older devices were commonly nullified by simple updates, wouldn’t there be widespread outrage?

Because the failure was sudden, I’m thinking that the HDCP hardware component on the TV has failed, or that it’s HDCP codes/keys have been blacklisted somehow - if this is possible; I’m a bit out of my depth with all of this HDCP stuff. If I get a converter and plug my XBox into my TV using the VGA input, will I still have this problem? Are there any options that don’t involve spending big $$$ on a new TV? The TV doesn't have a DVI input, and it doesn't have any network capabilities.

I'd suggest calling LG and finding out if you've got the most recent firmware. That could very easily be a firmware bug.

Malor wrote:

I'd suggest calling LG and finding out if you've got the most recent firmware. That could very easily be a firmware bug.

I can ask them. The firmware has never been updated and apparently can only be updated by a service tech. Do you suppose it is likely enough to fix the problem to be worth the fee?

Well, since I don't know what the problem actually is, I can't guarantee that, but HDCP problems are probably going to be there. If you can get an unencrypted signal okay, but it blacks out as soon as it tries to turn HDCP on, then it's probably software, not hardware. (The blackout is probably happening upstream, your playback devices refusing to output a signal after failing the HDCP handshake.)

When I Googled your model and HDMI problems, one of the links mentioned two types of firmware upgrade.... one that requires replacing a board in the TV, and one type that can just be downloaded. Maybe you'll get lucky.

I've had something VERY similar (if not identical) in the past in which a device was working fine and then, inexplicably, stopped working (HDCP errors as well). In my case replacing the HDMI cable resolved it -- and I have no idea why it stopped working. The same "problem" cable continues to work fine with a different TV. I can theorize that maybe the cable degraded in some way (a kink perhaps?) and my one TV is less tolerant while the other is more forgiving -- but your guess is as good as mine.

YMMV but an HDMI cable is a pretty cheap problem solving step.

I haven’t yet tried another HDMI cable (rather not go buy one), but I’ll try it if there’s any reasonable chance this will solve the problem.
Dramatic Marlin wrote:

I've had something VERY similar (if not identical) in the past in which a device was working fine and then, inexplicably, stopped working (HDCP errors as well). In my case replacing the HDMI cable resolved it -- and I have no idea why it stopped working. The same "problem" cable continues to work fine with a different TV. I can theorize that maybe the cable degraded in some way (a kink perhaps?) and my one TV is less tolerant while the other is more forgiving -- but your guess is as good as mine.

YMMV but an HDMI cable is a pretty cheap problem solving step.

Yeah. Try it. Order a $3 cable from monoprice and see what happens. If it doesn't work you aren't out much and have a spare cable. If it does, you saved yourself a lot of other trouble.

Tried a new HDMI cable but, unfortunately, it didn't make any difference. I'll try to find out from LG if there's been a firmware update for this TV, and how much it would cost to have someone apply it.

I take it, then, that there's no other way around this problem (i.e. an HDMI to VGA converter)?

Most consoles will shut off their HDMI outputs without HDCP working. You'll have to avoid the HDMI altogether. You could probably do fine with component cables, but I think you said you have a new PS3, and they don't do component anymore. Even the older ones, I believe, will refuse to output full-rez HD via component if you're playing back a movie, but it might work okay with games.

An HDCP stripper could work, but those are really expensive, and only semi-legal.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DRM.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

It seems to be a hardware failure, and the estimated cost is around $300. Looks like it's time to save up for a new TV.

I was very disappointed with LG support on this issue. It turns out there isn't much they could have done, but they had no idea what they were talking about and gave me bad information. Two separate support people indicated that the problem must be with my other devices and not the TV. One of them even insisted that a hardware failure couldn't produce this problem.

I sure wish that XBox hadn't gotten rid of component outputs on the 360 S - why take features away?

Well, Panasonic is going to be leaving the plasma business soon, so now would be the time to grab one. The S60s are really good screens, fairly low-lag for gaming, and very reasonable.

If you can find one, the S64 is a matte-screen version of the same thing, but only Costco and Sam's Club had them, and there doesn't seem to be any stock left anywhere.