Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D (No Spoilers Beyond What's Aired)

Fedaykin98 wrote:

I'm fine with the Asgard and Doctor Strange theories, but this is SHIELD, dammit, and the LMD explanation is right there!

The question is, was he an LMD then, or is he now?

I think both the Asgard and the Doctor Strange theories would cost more money than they seem to be willing to spend.

I'm getting a lot of dejá vu from the discussions and my personal impressions back in the day of Dollhouse. I want to like this show, but they're not making it easy. Dollhouse had an interesting premise and I feel the execution was botched up since the first episode.

SHIELD's writing and acting feels rushed; the characters feel incredibly shallow.
I think I was expecting Firefly-esque greatness.

Both Buffy and Angel were incredibly campy before they got their mojo running. I hope this is the case.

I liked, quite a lot, that the second episode started pretty much where the pilot left off; feels more connected and less "monster-of-the-week" mechanics.

I'm still divided on Samuel L. Jackson's appearance. It was a delight to see Coulson and Fury go back and forth, but the show needs to stand on its own and not depend on big names to inject ratings every other episode.

Not thrilled with the second episode's on the nose "teamwork!" message. Yes, the team needs to become an integrated unit, but exposition could have been better.

Buffy is probably the best pilot that aired of all the shows, since FOX screwed up Firefly so badly.

But even so, if you were just trying to get someone on board with Buffy, you would only really need to show them 4 episodes out of the 12 from that first season. Welcome to the Hellmouth, The Harvest (part 2 of premiere), Angel, and Prophecy Girl (season finale). The rest of the season is of wildly varying quality, with some truly excruciating episodes in there. From then on, the series is great, save some poor choices in season 6.

Now you'd think things would be better after Angel, Firefly, and Dollhouse, but still this is mostly the Dollhouse team working here. And it definitely had pacing issues... way too slow in the first season, and way too fast in the 2nd, trying to wrap up everything.

Also it's good to remember that the first 4-6 episodes were probably finished before the premiere aired. So if there's some audience feedback they listen to, like FitzSimmons talking too fast or whatever, it would probably be 5 more episodes before anything would be tweaked to correct that. Not sure how much they do listen to, or if they do it with more focus groups instead of the general audience. But anyway, figure you have to give it a few episodes more to see what changes.

I dunno man, season four of Buffy was excruciating. It took me forever to slowly go through that, whereas I still enjoyed the first season, late 90's cheesiness and all (I still can't get Darla's first Vampire transformation out of my head. God, that was so low budget and poorly done).

There aren't a lot of shows that sucked me in with episode number one, though. Firefly was one of the few, but that was via DVD. The only show I can think of that really had me watching from episode 1 based on how it aired was Chuck.

Stengah wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

I like movie bob's theory that he's the robot you can see before the floating car at Stark Expo.

That's actually a reference to the first Human Torch.
Edit - It's possible that he's supposed to be a take on Vision, who was built by using part of the original Human Torch's body, but I think some other explanation is more likely.

That was basically his full theory, I just didn't want to post it verbatim because tablet. He goes on to talk about how if he is a robot he could be ultron too... but I doubt that... as then yoh have issues with what to do with the show post leader becoming world ending villian.

I can't remember the exact sequence, but didn't Coulson matrix-dodge an exploding door in the last episode? That seems above and beyond extraordinary for a regular human.

And Tahiti is a pretty magical place, I've been there and wow....:)

Ballotechnic wrote:

I can't remember the exact sequence, but didn't Coulson matrix-dodge an exploding door in the last episode? That seems above and beyond extraordinary for a regular human.

Yeah, I saw that too, but it's in the pilot, when Gunn kicked Skye's van door.

I watched the second episode this weekend and liked it. I think I will treat it as light fare until it changes.

Stengah wrote:
Ballotechnic wrote:

I can't remember the exact sequence, but didn't Coulson matrix-dodge an exploding door in the last episode? That seems above and beyond extraordinary for a regular human.

Yeah, I saw that too, but it's in the pilot, when Gunn kicked Skye's van door.

He didn't even flinch. LMD is really looking like a possibility.

So I'm doing a bit of thread skipping here but just from the last page here....are people doubting the LMD thing? I guess I just assumed that is what it was, never even considered any other explanation.

LMD is a possibility but why would you put a LMD in an extended role leading a team? If I remember correctly, most instances of LMD's in the comics were more temporary.

Kamakazi010654 wrote:

So I'm doing a bit of thread skipping here but just from the last page here....are people doubting the LMD thing? I guess I just assumed that is what it was, never even considered any other explanation.

I assumed LMD since they first announced he was going to be on the show, and I haven't looked back since. A couple other theories have been suggested, which all work in the Marvel universe, but imho this is the only one that screams SHIELD.

Are we discounting Coulson is just a grade A badass?

Tenebrous wrote:

LMD is a possibility but why would you put a LMD in an extended role leading a team? If I remember correctly, most instances of LMD's in the comics were more temporary.

The question in my mind is whether it was an LMD then, or now. Now is far more interesting, but you make a good point. The question here is, if he used one at the appropriate time in the Avengers movie, why would it be a secret from him now? He'd know, right?

And I think someone else has pointed out that him being an LMD now might possibly lead us in to the Age of Ultron movie. REALLY don't see how they are going to make that storyline into a mass audience movie, especially without Wolverine, who "belongs" to Fox right now.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
Tenebrous wrote:

LMD is a possibility but why would you put a LMD in an extended role leading a team? If I remember correctly, most instances of LMD's in the comics were more temporary.

The question in my mind is whether it was an LMD then, or now. Now is far more interesting, but you make a good point. The question here is, if he used one at the appropriate time in the Avengers movie, why would it be a secret from him now? He'd know, right?

And I think someone else has pointed out that him being an LMD now might possibly lead us in to the Age of Ultron movie. REALLY don't see how they are going to make that storyline into a mass audience movie, especially without Wolverine, who "belongs" to Fox right now.

Apparently LMDs are referenced in the Avengers (Tony tried to convince Coulson that he's Tony's LMD instead of the real him), so Coulson should know of their existence, and probably be able to figure out pretty quickly if he was one. As for Age of Ultron, that is the next Avengers movie, but it's apparently not going to follow the comic-version much at all.

Kamakazi010654 wrote:

So I'm doing a bit of thread skipping here but just from the last page here....are people doubting the LMD thing? I guess I just assumed that is what it was, never even considered any other explanation.

It seems a little too pat for me. To all the Marvel fans, LMDs are old hat, and too all the non-comics people, "he's actually a robot" seems like a tough sell. I don't know if it's quite as cliched as "he's a clone," or "it was my twin brother," but it's getting there.

kazooka wrote:
Kamakazi010654 wrote:

So I'm doing a bit of thread skipping here but just from the last page here....are people doubting the LMD thing? I guess I just assumed that is what it was, never even considered any other explanation.

It seems a little too pat for me. To all the Marvel fans, LMDs are old hat, and too all the non-comics people, "he's actually a robot" seems like a tough sell. I don't know if it's quite as cliched as "he's a clone," or "it was my twin brother," but it's getting there.

Well...maybe? I might think that as well, but it may be giving the show a bit too much credit.

Another good episode. I'm really liking it.

Grenn wrote:

Another good episode. I'm really liking it.

I liked this one more for some reason. Less need to introduce things, more time for the characters to surprise us, maybe.

I realized this is a much more event driven show than typical Whedon shows. The characters don't get as many "sitting around just being characters" moments.

Not a bad episode, but I really can't wait until things start getting more comic booky.

Spoiler:

Nice to see Coulson just made a super. Finally, real super powers on the show!

I definitely enjoyed tonight's episode.

ccesarano wrote:
Spoiler:

Nice to see Coulson just made a super. Finally, real super powers on the show!

And I completely agree with this.

I enjoyed the episode, but the sound editing is still awful, and I still don't like the casting of Pretty Boy McSpyGuy.

BadKen wrote:

I enjoyed the episode, but the sound editing is still awful, and I still don't like the casting of Pretty Boy McSpyGuy.

I'm feeling like this is going to be a sticking point for me for the duration of the season.

Unless they kill him. That'd be ok.

I don't know what an LMD is, and most viewers don't either.* So Coulson's explanation, if it ever comes, should be derived from what viewers of the show and the Avengers movie know: advanced human technology, Chitauri technology, or maaaaybe Asgard something something.

*Which is not to say the robotcloneguy explanation isn't a good one, just not internally consistent given the two episodes + movie. Asgard is a reach, and "Dr. Strange theories" are just out there, though I'd love to see Dr. Strange get some love (and a better treatment than that TV movie decades back).

BadKen wrote:

I enjoyed the episode, but the sound editing is still awful, and I still don't like the casting of Pretty Boy McSpyGuy.

Listening to Ward rack a slide on a shotgun which very clearly does not have one is a prime example of this. Watched that and just went "wat".

After episode 3, I'm growing more fond of the series. It's fluffy, fun, and entertaining. I still don't like most of the characters, but that is because I'm not the target audience. As a network show aimed at kids and the family audience, it is entertaining enough. I just don't usually watch shows in this market segment and wasn't used to the lack of edginess.

The lack of diversity on the cast still really bugs me. This is 2013. SHIELD has it's pick of anyone in America. Why choose just white agents? Besides, Ming-Na Wen is far and away the most interesting actor on the cast. Spy-Bro, the hacker from Urban Outfitters, and the zany UK scientists are all uniformly bland, lame, and boring.

That said, I'm warming up to the show. Despite myself. I trust that bland, lame, and boring are just areas for future interesting character development. Either that or the hacker from Urban Outfitters gets killed and replaced.

I finally realized a few things about the show that keeps it from wowing the pants off of anyone. Aside from my earlier note on being very event driven rather than character driven, the show also lacks any truly interesting B-plot. I think the pilot might have been the only one, where several threads converged together, or perhaps the B-plot is just awfully hackneyed (episode two's "Everyone must learn to work as a team!").

Even if we compare to something like Buffy's first season, you have moments where the characters are just being characters. They sit down and discuss stuff that has nothing to do with the primary plot. Here, from the word go the characters are all focused on the latest mystery/catastrophe of the week. There's very little character interaction that has nothing to do with the mission at hand.

For the most part, I'm still getting mostly a Chuck style vibe from the show (oddly enough my roommate gets more of a Burn Notice vibe), but even those shows had moments that were more about the characters.

I think one of the biggest issues right now is that the plots for the episodes aren't interesting enough to carry it, and the characters aren't defined or interesting enough to carry the plot.

I am entertained, but I must admit I was expecting better. So at this point I cannot hide my own disappointment, even though I still like it.

.

ccesarano wrote:

I finally realized a few things about the show that keeps it from wowing the pants off of anyone. Aside from my earlier note on being very event driven rather than character driven, the show also lacks any truly interesting B-plot. I think the pilot might have been the only one, where several threads converged together, or perhaps the B-plot is just awfully hackneyed (episode two's "Everyone must learn to work as a team!").

Even if we compare to something like Buffy's first season, you have moments where the characters are just being characters. They sit down and discuss stuff that has nothing to do with the primary plot. Here, from the word go the characters are all focused on the latest mystery/catastrophe of the week. There's very little character interaction that has nothing to do with the mission at hand.

For the most part, I'm still getting mostly a Chuck style vibe from the show (oddly enough my roommate gets more of a Burn Notice vibe), but even those shows had moments that were more about the characters.

It reminds me of the first season of Supernatural. Monster (or Problem) of the Weeks, very surface character development based on stereotypes, etc., but with potential.

Yeah A/B plots are pretty much a staple of hour-long TV shows.

With Chuck it was usually A spy plot and B Morgan/Ellie/Buy More plot. Castle has A murder plot and B mom/daughter plot. Lots of other shows follow something similar.

So far this is just focused on one thing. I mean you can't consider Skye's training a B plot since that was directly part of the main story of her getting through the mission. And Melinda wanting back in field work was like two scenes of the show... hardly enough to call it a plot.

Obviously this is the A-Team with C-Team actors (except Clark Gregg...he's awesome).