WoW 5.0 - Mists of Pandaria

I stumbled across this today while checking out a tutorial.

Remember what raiding was like in Vanilla? Preach will take you back in time and make you wonder WTF we were thinking?

Caution, there is some profanity! I LOL'd several times!

For all the insanity that was Vanilla raiding, I honestly prefer it in a lot of ways to current raid content. Back then, there were really only two major obstacles to being able to raid; having time and having enough people. Now, in an era where raiding is honestly difficult and requires a much larger amount of both player skill and preparation, I honestly feel that normal mode raiding is less accessible than it was back then.

I get that folks wanted more challenge, and less players to corral. I also think that the Flex Raid option is fantastic for those guilds who want to keep it in the guild, or extended guild friends list, but there's a huge part of me that laments the way that things have changed, given that I've watched a guild generally fall apart over the increase in difficulty, particularly when you're talking about the upswing in difficulty with Cataclysm.

AnimeJ wrote:

For all the insanity that was Vanilla raiding, I honestly prefer it in a lot of ways to current raid content. Back then, there were really only two major obstacles to being able to raid; having time and having enough people. Now, in an era where raiding is honestly difficult and requires a much larger amount of both player skill and preparation, I honestly feel that normal mode raiding is less accessible than it was back then.

I get that folks wanted more challenge, and less players to corral. I also think that the Flex Raid option is fantastic for those guilds who want to keep it in the guild, or extended guild friends list, but there's a huge part of me that laments the way that things have changed, given that I've watched a guild generally fall apart over the increase in difficulty, particularly when you're talking about the upswing in difficulty with Cataclysm.

I think it's two different sides of the circle. Classes and roles are more complex and diverse and they demand more out of the individual player. The bosses have more mechanics but there's also an almost infinite number of add-ons to help you get through the fights. Not to mention some amazing guides to walk you through the fights. Stand here, do this, move there do that. Hell, when I started in MC there wasn't even a way to mark the mobs!

I think raid accessibility was MUCH more difficult in vanilla. For most of the "end game" there absurd attunements and raid requirements made raiding almost a part time job. Everything had to be farmed to death. When we were running MC I'd literally spend 20 hours or more per week just farming. Mats for pots fire resist pots, gear uh....everything was just one gigantic slog just to get ready to raid. Then you'd have to go out and farm money because the repair bills would become burdensome.

I think it's a bit of give and take now. It's more accessible than it's ever been and it's more challenging at the highest levels.

What I've found really shocking is, based on my experience since I've returned, is that there's a fair number of people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

The thing about MC and BWL was that if your guild was focused, you really only needed a handful of folks to really provided for 40 people. Repair bills were probably one of the biggest issue, as that really did require effort to make sure you had enough to spend each night. I probably did spend 20 hours or so a week total farming, but I was really big into addons even back then, and had all sorts of node trackers and the like to make farming mats go faster.

There's definitely give and take; we gave up easier mechanics and difficulty in organization for ease of organization and complex mechanics. The other thing we gave up that you point out(people with no clue) is a side effect of easing the gear treadmill; it's trivial to get enough gear to take a stab at normal level raiding with the introduction of LFR and epics everywhere from multiple sources, with very, very little effort required. Honestly, I think that's probably the biggest mistake that's been made, but I can understand the desire to do it. When "quality" gear was difficult to obtain and required effort and planning in the form of difficult dungeons, players had to spend time becoming familiar with their class and how to play in a group. And that's not something that LFR/LFD eliminated.

AnimeJ wrote:

There's definitely give and take; we gave up easier mechanics and difficulty in organization for ease of organization and complex mechanics. The other thing we gave up that you point out(people with no clue) is a side effect of easing the gear treadmill; it's trivial to get enough gear to take a stab at normal level raiding with the introduction of LFR and epics everywhere from multiple sources, with very, very little effort required. Honestly, I think that's probably the biggest mistake that's been made, but I can understand the desire to do it. When "quality" gear was difficult to obtain and required effort and planning in the form of difficult dungeons, players had to spend time becoming familiar with their class and how to play in a group. And that's not something that LFR/LFD eliminated.

The Island of Timeless epics isn't helping things either. If you're able to stumble to 90 you can literally walk around the island and equip yourself from head to to by simply clicking on boxes. That's the epitome of too easy.

I was getting ready to grab the chest on the ship the other day so I sent a whisper to one of the Warlocks on the Isle. I asked him if he could please hit me with the underwater breathing buff and he said "what's that and how do I do it"?

Now, if this guy was level 10 I'd understand but how do you get to level 90 and not understand your basic spells?

Bear wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

There's definitely give and take; we gave up easier mechanics and difficulty in organization for ease of organization and complex mechanics. The other thing we gave up that you point out(people with no clue) is a side effect of easing the gear treadmill; it's trivial to get enough gear to take a stab at normal level raiding with the introduction of LFR and epics everywhere from multiple sources, with very, very little effort required. Honestly, I think that's probably the biggest mistake that's been made, but I can understand the desire to do it. When "quality" gear was difficult to obtain and required effort and planning in the form of difficult dungeons, players had to spend time becoming familiar with their class and how to play in a group. And that's not something that LFR/LFD eliminated.

The Island of Timeless epics isn't helping things either. If you're able to stumble to 90 you can literally walk around the island and equip yourself from head to to by simply clicking on boxes. That's the epitome of too easy.

I was getting ready to grab the chest on the ship the other day so I sent a whisper to one of the Warlocks on the Isle. I asked him if he could please hit me with the underwater breathing buff and he said "what's that and how do I do it"?

Now, if this guy was level 10 I'd understand but how do you get to level 90 and not understand your basic spells?

Yow. I had to reread that to make sure that you'd said warlock, as shaman lost that buff, but still. I could even understand it if it was something new that they'd picked up(took me about a month to figure out the new Shammy totem system after Mists launched), but this late in the game, and for a spell you get that early on? Bleh.

I'll defend the 'lock to say that it might have been an alt that he doesn't play that often. Spells just show up now (you no longer have to go back to town and train them), and it's easy to miss stuff. Plus almost all of the underwater quests these days come equipped with an underwater breathing buff. My engineer finally retired his Deepdive Helmet to the bank because he hasn't used it in years. Or maybe the guy is a fresh 90. You can level from 1 in a couple of weeks if you really hump it.

I have no problem with the Timeless Isle gear pinata. One of the things that has always bothered me a little bit about WoW is the gating. I didn't hit max level until mid-BC and I was so hopelessly behind the gearing curve that I had absolutely zero chance of seeing the inside of any raid.

LFR and the catch-up epics at least give me the chance to do that with minimal effort. It won't give me great gear or anything in the way of bragging rights, and the chance of failure is high simply because I'm undergeared and inexperienced (and so, too, is much of the group in a lot of cases). But it does give me the chance to say, "OK, did it. Now on to something else."

No, I don't understand why someone who can barely play the game, much less the class, would queue for a raid with a barely broken-in set of gift epics. Call me old school, but I'd rather spend the time up front learning the fights rather than try to figure them out on the fly with multiple fails.

You're honestly an outlier in that you'll take the time and figure stuff out before diving in. There are a *lot* of players who go about with no real clue expecting to be carried through content.

On the whole, I can get why some sort of catch-up is needed. But I also feel like there should be more onus on personal responsibility(Proving Grounds goes a LONG way towards providing this IMO) of players to be prepared and at least somewhat knowledgeable and capable.

The Timeless gear is really just giving your alts a reasonable starting ilevel to queue for LFR.. no serious raiding guild would allow that ilevel in Normal or Heroic SoO. For your main character if you are serious about raiding you are still going to do the standard Raid grind to try and get your gear up. The only real loot pinata right now are the Celestials on the Isle.. where as long as your faction has tagged them you can do a drive by and still get loot.. I won a pair of T16 gloves by throwing one Flame Shock on one of them.

AnimeJ wrote:

You're honestly an outlier in that you'll take the time and figure stuff out before diving in. There are a *lot* of players who go about with no real clue expecting to be carried through content. ...

I know, right?

Speaking of which, I've got to strap on my holy set and hit Proving Grounds. There are achievements to be achieved!

TheGameguru wrote:

... where as long as your faction has tagged them you can do a drive by and still get loot.

By "drive by," I assume you mean "be right next to the rare when it's pulled." Folks are posting their NPC alerts in /1, and mobs are going from 100 health to 0 in about 15 seconds. I'd have a better chance of soloing H-SoO than getting to those rares in time!

Enix wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

You're honestly an outlier in that you'll take the time and figure stuff out before diving in. There are a *lot* of players who go about with no real clue expecting to be carried through content. ...

I know, right?

Speaking of which, I've got to strap on my holy set and hit Proving Grounds. There are achievements to be achieved!

TheGameguru wrote:

... where as long as your faction has tagged them you can do a drive by and still get loot.

By "drive by," I assume you mean "be right next to the rare when it's pulled." Folks are posting their NPC alerts in /1, and mobs are going from 100 health to 0 in about 15 seconds. I'd have a better chance of soloing H-SoO than getting to those rares in time!

True.. but the Celestials have a decent amount of health and usually last longer than a few seconds.

So I should be hitting 90 tonight, and I'm not even halfway through the MOP questing zones. While I plan on going through it for the storyline, I'll clearly be in no rush. What should be my next stop to gear up? Can I do Timeless Isle with the gear I got from questing? Should I do some easy LFRs? It's fun to be back in this place, reminds me of when I first hit 60 and started getting my Dreadmist set

My suggestion is to hit Timeless Isle at the peak time so everyone else will be clearing the mobs for you.
Once there, use this map to hopefully get some gear from chests and kill any rares you stumble upon while doing that:
http://imgur.com/ipEjMPz

IMAGE(http://imgur.com/ipEjMPz)

Dysplastic wrote:

So I should be hitting 90 tonight, and I'm not even halfway through the MOP questing zones. While I plan on going through it for the storyline, I'll clearly be in no rush. What should be my next stop to gear up? Can I do Timeless Isle with the gear I got from questing? Should I do some easy LFRs? It's fun to be back in this place, reminds me of when I first hit 60 and started getting my Dreadmist set :)

There's a number of pieces of gear you can get on the Isle just by opening chests. Some are out in the open and others take bit of getting used to. Easiest way is to use TomTom and there are macro's you can create that will show you the exact locations of the chests from easiest to hardest. You simply ride from point to point and fill your bags with epics. Also, as GG said, make sure you take a shot at the rare bosses as they're being gang tackled. As long as you get a swing or spell in you'll get something. Beware the elites though, some of them will kill the ever living snot out of you.

Here's a pretty good guide:
http://www.icy-veins.com/timeless-is...

One thing worth noting. If you get a "Burden of Eternity" DO NOT USE IT. It has to be applied to the gear before it is made and equipped. So if you get say some pants and a chestpiece, hang onto them and don't activate or make them. Wait till you get a couple of BoE's then you apply it to the gear and presto, instant lvl 535 gear!

I'm using the Isle to basically gear up enough so that I won't embarass myself on the LFR runs. I did my first one yesterday and managed not to die or embarrass myself despite having absolutely no clue on the mechanics.

Enix wrote:

By "drive by," I assume you mean "be right next to the rare when it's pulled." Folks are posting their NPC alerts in /1, and mobs are going from 100 health to 0 in about 15 seconds. I'd have a better chance of soloing H-SoO than getting to those rares in time!

The Celestials are the ones in the pit, they take a looong time to get down and have distinctive speeches that they give so it's easy to tell when they're being engaged if you're near there.

Dysplastic wrote:

So I should be hitting 90 tonight, and I'm not even halfway through the MOP questing zones. While I plan on going through it for the storyline, I'll clearly be in no rush. What should be my next stop to gear up? Can I do Timeless Isle with the gear I got from questing? Should I do some easy LFRs? It's fun to be back in this place, reminds me of when I first hit 60 and started getting my Dreadmist set :)

Grats, man! It seems like just yesterday you revived your toon ... /sniff

If you want to quest, my favorite quest line so far is going with Chen and LiLi through the Valley. You can help out the Klaxxi in Dread Wastes to get the Wakener title or go help the Shado-Pan clear out Townlong.

If you want to gear up, Timeless Isle is your best bet.

However, I peaked at your Armory page, and i402 might get you murdered out there. If you have any JP stored up, find the faction quartermasters and get ahold of some i458 (blue) gear. (You no longer need rep for gear.) Or run a few heroics (i463, I think), which will get you not only gear but JPs to buy more.

This guy in Townlong can hook you up with JP gear.

If you get your tailoring up, you'll be able to make some stuff. Or check the AH. Or tread very, very carefully on Timeless Isle.

Update: If you want to give TI a try, hit me up. I need to work on my healing, and you might need a pocket healer out there.

Dysplastic wrote:

So I should be hitting 90 tonight, and I'm not even halfway through the MOP questing zones. While I plan on going through it for the storyline, I'll clearly be in no rush. What should be my next stop to gear up? Can I do Timeless Isle with the gear I got from questing? Should I do some easy LFRs? It's fun to be back in this place, reminds me of when I first hit 60 and started getting my Dreadmist set :)

I just reactivated my account a few weeks ago, ran out the the Timeless Isles right after I hit 60 and it was pretty rough. I have been able to scrape some epics out of there, but I die pretty often.

Is the GWJ guild active? My old guild seems to be mostly gone, I've seen one person log in the last 3 weeks. I was thinking of server transferring if the guild was active.

The Alliance guild has maintained some semblance of activity, the horde guild OTOH is mostly dead.

Kosars wrote:

Is the GWJ guild active? My old guild seems to be mostly gone, I've seen one person log in the last 3 weeks. I was thinking of server transferring if the guild was active.

GWJ-Alliance is conscious and breathing but that's about it. There are 2-3 folks on nightly (me, mostly). But there's no raiding at the moment, and no indication that the raid team is coming back anytime soon. I've got a few other toons elsewhere I'd like to level, so there's no telling how much I'll be around over the next little bit.

The upcoming pseudo-server merges might shake things up quite a bit. It's nice to see all the extra toons in Ironforge and out in the world. Not sure yet what it will mean for guilds, the AH, etc.

Enix wrote:

If you want to gear up, Timeless Isle is your best bet.

However, I peaked at your Armory page, and i402 might get you murdered out there. If you have any JP stored up, find the faction quartermasters and get ahold of some i458 (blue) gear. (You no longer need rep for gear.) Or run a few heroics (i463, I think), which will get you not only gear but JPs to buy more.

So I don't have any JPs - I take it you get those by running dungeons? Is my i402 enough to run Heroics, or does that even need to be higher? Should I run random ones or prep for a few and cue only for those? Are some easier than others?

Sorry, coming from Vanilla here where 5/10/15 mans were all pretty straightforward and there was none of this Normal/Heroic dichotomy - you could run UBRS right away when turning 60.

I'll probably wait a bit on Timeless Isle, unless we go in as a 2 man team, in which case it should be fun. How do I get there?

Finish out the questlines.. that should get your ilevel up to run heroics.. assuming you are dead broke and can't just go buy a full set of PVP Blues. (though with the cash from quests now at the level cap you will have 5K-10K easy) You can do the Arena of Annihilation scenario for a 450 Weapon as well..

Then you can run heroics and get your JP's maxed very quick.. average heroic will net you 400-500 JP's.. with JP's you can buy 489 Epic gear and quickly queue for LFR.

TheGameguru wrote:

Finish out the questlines.. that should get your ilevel up to run heroics.. assuming you are dead broke and can't just go buy a full set of PVP Blues. (though with the cash from quests now at the level cap you will have 5K-10K easy) You can do the Arena of Annihilation scenario for a 450 Weapon as well..

Then you can run heroics and get your JP's maxed very quick.. average heroic will net you 400-500 JP's.. with JP's you can buy 489 Epic gear and quickly queue for LFR.

What GG said.

I'd add that you can run regular dungeons and scenarios (scenarios queue instantly) to start collecting JPs and some gear. The gear from completing quests inside the dungeons themselves are i430 or thereabouts and will help you power through the in-zone quests.

To get to TI, venture over to Mogushan Palace in the Vale. There's a questgiver there who will send you on your way.

Alright, looks like I'll continue questing and run regular dungeons and scenarios. Works for me anyways.
As for PVP gear, I'm not broke, but I thought they had to be purchased with PVP points? (honor/conquest/whatever)

You can convert JP>Honor, and JP is fairly easy to get running dungeons at 90. If you're in need of a fast queue, hit me up; I spend a fair amount of time online.

Also, are any folks up to the tail end of the legendary questline? I'm about done with it, just slamming my head on Chapter V's big requirement.

Dysplastic wrote:

Alright, looks like I'll continue questing and run regular dungeons and scenarios. Works for me anyways.
As for PVP gear, I'm not broke, but I thought they had to be purchased with PVP points? (honor/conquest/whatever)

There's a low tier crafted pvp set on the AH that is better than what you have till you start running the heroics and arenas or doing pvp.

ranalin wrote:
Dysplastic wrote:

Alright, looks like I'll continue questing and run regular dungeons and scenarios. Works for me anyways.
As for PVP gear, I'm not broke, but I thought they had to be purchased with PVP points? (honor/conquest/whatever)

There's a low tier crafted pvp set on the AH that is better than what you have till you start running the heroics and arenas or doing pvp.

Oh really? What's it called?

Dysplastic wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Dysplastic wrote:

Alright, looks like I'll continue questing and run regular dungeons and scenarios. Works for me anyways.
As for PVP gear, I'm not broke, but I thought they had to be purchased with PVP points? (honor/conquest/whatever)

There's a low tier crafted pvp set on the AH that is better than what you have till you start running the heroics and arenas or doing pvp.

Oh really? What's it called?

Dont remember the set's names. It's blue and they start at level 85 i think. Sort by ilevel and it'll be the top blue pieces for pretty low prices.

Pretty sure the PvP blues are all L90. I can make a bunch of the plate stuff on one of my characters.

edit - Yea, crafted dreadful gladiator is the set. 458 blues, L90.

AnimeJ wrote:

Pretty sure the PvP blues are all L90. I can make a bunch of the plate stuff on one of my characters.

edit - Yea, crafted dreadful gladiator is the set. 458 blues, L90.

Ah could've sworn i got gloves, belt or boots at 85. Either way it's a great boost when starting out.

Depending on what your gear was like going into the expansion, there are gear vendors everywhere selling greens.

Dysplastic wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Dysplastic wrote:

Alright, looks like I'll continue questing and run regular dungeons and scenarios. Works for me anyways.
As for PVP gear, I'm not broke, but I thought they had to be purchased with PVP points? (honor/conquest/whatever)

There's a low tier crafted pvp set on the AH that is better than what you have till you start running the heroics and arenas or doing pvp.

Oh really? What's it called?

The common prefix for all the newest crafted PvP stuff is "Malevolent" and they are all iLvl 476.