Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D (No Spoilers Beyond What's Aired)

manta173 wrote:

I didn't see the bad acting or lame jokes... I enjoyed it all... I know it will get better if it gets a chance, I assumed most people here would be happy. I think the campyness is good and makes me more interested... I like the silliness of Joss Whedon things...

I definitely see where a lot of the complaints are coming from, but I still really liked it. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes once the writers settle in and it hits it's stride.

Come now, it wasn't TOTALLY Whedon-like.

The fight choreography was so much better than that.

ccesarano wrote:

Come now, it wasn't TOTALLY Whedon-like.

The fight choreography was so much better than that. :P

One of the biggest disappointments with the Buffy TV series was that even after 6 or 7 years, Sarah Michelle Geller still didn't know how to throw a punch! The musical episode in particular showed how bad she was during the training montage. I blame the actor for that.

ruhk wrote:
manta173 wrote:

I didn't see the bad acting or lame jokes... I enjoyed it all... I know it will get better if it gets a chance, I assumed most people here would be happy. I think the campyness is good and makes me more interested... I like the silliness of Joss Whedon things...

I definitely see where a lot of the complaints are coming from, but I still really liked it. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes once the writers settle in and it hits it's stride.

I agree with Manta. I plan on watching the episode again tonight, but on the first run through I found it to be pretty classic Whedon. Which as I mentioned before, I love.

Highest-rated drama debut in 4 years.

11.9 million viewers and a 4.6 adults 18-49 rating.

That adult demo number is particular impressive given the show’s time slot. S.H.I.E.L.D. had to self-start at 8 p.m. — no lead-in — and ran against huge competition: NBC’s The Voice and CBS’ NCIS are two of the most popular shows on television. And how did it stand up? S.H.I.E.L.D. (recap here) actually managed to tie the two-hour The Voice overall in the demo (4.6) — and beat it head-to-head during the 8 p.m. hour — while trouncing the return of NCIS in the demo (3.4), though obviously losing among total viewers (19.4 million).

My biggest gripe was the dialog. The writing was bottom shelf for the lowest common denominator. Delivery couldn't save some of the stuff that was falling out of their mouths.

I don't know if I qualify, but my state of being underwhelmed isn't hate or even dislike. It's just ... meh. There was nothing here to distinguish it from other specfic TV offerings. Yet. This thread is only about what has aired. What has aired is massively underwhelming. I'm full of hope and optimism for the show based on Whedon and Marvel, but

It didn't emotionally connect with me at all, with the outstanding exception being Ming Na's reaction to being pulled into violence against her inclination. THAT resonated. Everything else just felt flat and two dimensional. Colson's back from the dead, fer krissakes, and there is zero emotion.

I'm not writing the series off. It is what it is. But, if all I had to go on was the pilot, I wouldn't program the DVR for future episodes. On the other hand, since I'm a fan of Whedon and Marvel, I'm very optimistic that it will get better.

Oso wrote:

I don't know if I qualify, but my state of being underwhelmed isn't hate or even dislike. It's just ... meh. There was nothing here to distinguish it from other specfic TV offerings. Yet. This thread is only about what has aired. What has aired is massively underwhelming. I'm full of hope and optimism for the show based on Whedon and Marvel, but

It didn't emotionally connect with me at all, with the outstanding exception being Ming Na's reaction to being pulled into violence against her inclination. THAT resonated. Everything else just felt flat and two dimensional. Colson's back from the dead, fer krissakes, and there is zero emotion.

I'm not writing the series off. It is what it is. But, if all I had to go on was the pilot, I wouldn't program the DVR for future episodes. On the other hand, since I'm a fan of Whedon and Marvel, I'm very optimistic that it will get better.

Well said. I didn't hate on it. I just didn't love it. Pilot-wise, I thought the Sleepy Hollow pilot was much stronger.

How much is Whedon actually involved in this? Obviously some, from the casting, but I would imagine that his involvement is limited (working on Avengers 2 and all that). I'm not sure this is actually a directly Whedon show.

Gremlin wrote:
kazooka wrote:

Not really feeling the James Bond dude. He doesn't have much stage presence.

During the fight in Paris, I had trouble telling who was who. If he was intended to be an audience surrogate character, I think they misread the audience (Hollywood has weird ideas about audience identification). Joss is usually better about that (see Buffy: Vampire Slayer, The). Coulson (and Skye) is much closer to the heart of the show, hopefully they'll recognize that. He did get to be one one doing the facedown at the end.

Yeah, it doesn't help that he's standing in the very large shoes of David Boreanaz and Nathan Fillion, dudes who weren't necessarily the greatest actors, but had a very compelling presence. I'd like to give him a bit more of a chance to break out, though.

I'm also a little confused by the outright dislike. I can definitely see underwhelmed and meh, but as far as production values and quality in a fantasy-action show? I don't get it. You guys are clearly too young to remember Babylon 5, Xena and Hercules.

I didn't hate it either, it was just thoroughly mediocre. I did dislike certain bits. Specifically I found the majority of the humor to fail pretty hard. I also really disliked at least one of the actor performances, namely the main tough guy agent dude they introduced. He was terrible.

And the dialog waffled back and forth from solid to terrible pretty constantly throughout the pilot.

As for Whedon, yes it's typical Whedon for me too, in that for me he's very hit or miss for me. But for me he misses more often than not. I love Firefly and Avengers. I really like Cabin in the Woods. I have nothing but dislike for everything else he's ever done. I have watched Buffy, Dollhouse, and Angel and have no love of any kind for any of them. He's got a 25% success rate with me on TV shows.

Again, didn't hate the Pilot, but was underwhelmed. There was a consistency to the writing in The Avengers that's just not there in the pilot for the show. I'd hoped the feel and the consistency from the movie would carry over more and might balance out some of Whedon's other tendencies. It does, to a certain degree, but not nearly as much as I would have liked.

Basically, I went in with very tempered expectations, but The Avengers gave me hope. Then that hope was... well not rewarded but also not quite crushed all the way. Hence the Meh and underwhelmed feelings.

From ABC:

executive producers Joss Whedon (Marvel's The Avengers, Buffy the Vampire Slayer), Jed Whedon & Maurissa Tancharoen, who co-wrote the pilot (Dollhouse, Dr.Horrible's Sing-Along Blog). Jeffrey Bell (Angel, Alias) and Jeph Loeb (Smallville, Lost, Heroes) also serve as executive producers.

I definitely saw that Joss was listed as director for the pilot episode last night.

IMDB lists those first 3 as creators, as well as all 5 under exec producers.

EDIT: Found 2 more articles.

This from August talks about the series getting picked up.

If ordered to series, Jed Whedon and Tancharoen, alums of Joss Whedon’s Fox series “Dollhouse,” will serve as showrunner-exec producers with Jeffrey Bell. Marvel TV topper Jeph Loeb, who previously worked with Whedon on an animated “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” project that never got off the ground, will also exec produce.

And this interview with Jed and Maurissa makes it sound like the two of them are running things. I believe the two of them ran season 2 of Dollhouse, which was infinitely better than season 1. Only issue was pacing, as they knew they weren't getting renewed and tried tor cram another couple seasons' worth of stories into 5 episodes or so.

Other stuff from that interview is worth a read though:

What kind of rules exist in the SHIELD universe?

Tancharoen: We can't ever say "mutant."

Whedon: There's a database that's tailored to our show with the properties we can use as well as the properties that are owned by other studios and things that are flagged for major franchises. There are certain areas we can't go because we don't want to step on the toes of the movies. We've had free reign. There are certain rules in terms of the Marvel brand. Marvel is very focused on being grounded -- and it is our world with the one twist that they're superheroes. There's no Metropolis, there's no Gotham. It's New York City and Chicago, and in the cinematic universe the process of powers is pretty young. They say it's only been a couple years since Iron Man in terms of our timeline in the universe. So the idea in our world that powers exist is new to the population and SHIELD's job description. It used to be keeping those things secret and that has now changed, so we're dealing with some of that.

How are you going to handle crossovers moving forward when it comes to integrating film characters? Samuel L. Jackson has said he wants to do the show. Can we expect people from the movies to pop in for sweeps?

Tancharoen: If he wants to come and play with us he is more than welcome!

Whedon: I sent him my phone number (laughs).

Tancharoen: We're open to those opportunities, but we just don't want to set that precedent. We don't want that to be an expectation that somebody is always going to show up. We want our show to exist on our own. But the opportunity for synergy is always welcome.

Whedon: We're in contact with the features people, and we're hoping to tie in with storylines since we have stuff in their films and play with the fallout of their films. But we are focused on establishing ourselves as our own franchise and getting people to fall in love with our characters instead of just wondering when Iron Man is going to fly in.

Looking at the SHIELD universe and comics, there's so much crossover. Can we expect any other comic characters or is that off limits?
Tancharoen: We can solidly say we do not see any of the X-Men. That belongs to someone else.
I believe the two of them ran season 2 of Dollhouse, which was infinitely better than season 1.

Dollhouse could have been awesome, with less Dushku, and more Gyokaj. That guy can act, and Season 2 was much better, in no small part because they gave him more screen time.

I really enjoyed this pilot; it's not the strongest I've ever seen, but they managed to get a lot of backstory and setup into a remarkably short amount of screen time. Once they're not having to explain everything, we'll be able to see if it delivers.

I'm a little iffy on the 'tough guy', and the 'beautiful hacker chick' is weakish, but it could work. We'll have to see.

Oh, and Oso:

Colson's back from the dead, fer krissakes, and there is zero emotion.

Well, from the comments early on by other characters, that might not actually be true. There may be little emotion because he's a clone or an android or something, and doesn't know it.

ccesarano wrote:

All I could think was "Where we're going, we don't need roads..."

I said those exact words out loud at the end.

groan wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

All I could think was "Where we're going, we don't need roads..."

I said those exact words out loud at the end.

I would imagine everyone over 30 did. LOL

They also did a little play on the "With great power comes great...." line too.

Gaald wrote:

They also did a little play on the "With great power comes great...." line too.

I chuckled at that.

groan wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

All I could think was "Where we're going, we don't need roads..."

I said those exact words out loud at the end.

Bah. SHIELD have had flying cars since the 60s.

I enjoyed it well enough. Yeah, not everything hangs together perfectly, but it is way to early to expect that from any show.

The thing that disappointed me the most was Maria Hill's character. She was nowhere near prickly enough.

Gaald wrote:
groan wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

All I could think was "Where we're going, we don't need roads..."

I said those exact words out loud at the end.

I would imagine everyone over 30 did. LOL

Hey now! Some of us 20-somethings had older siblings, y'know! (Though I'm close enough to 30 at this point)

PRG013 wrote:
Gaald wrote:

They also did a little play on the "With great power comes great...." line too.

I chuckled at that.

This is where I think people are going to be hung up on the humor and dialog. I cracked a smirk, but I didn't laugh and figured it was an easy mark. Other folks around here that didn't enjoy the humor I imagine might have found that joke rather poor.

In truth, some of the techno-gadgetry and the flying car at the end DID feel out of place. Sure, you have an airborne aircraft carrier that can cloak, but it seems like that's more down-to-Earth than a flying car and random little flying robot cameras, in a sense. However, I'm willing to give it time. I just hope they don't go too over the top, or save some of that stuff for silly jokes.

I mean, my roommate pointed out that they're supposed to be a top secret organization, but their logo is plastered on everything they use, from cars to planes to trains to automobiles. However, I'm willing to overlook it for the most part.

We'll see how they do with the limited budget of television, though.

I mean, my roommate pointed out that they're supposed to be a top secret organization, but their logo is plastered on everything they use, from cars to planes to trains to automobiles. However, I'm willing to overlook it for the most part.

Actually that's just it. They were a secret organization, but now with the attack on New York, in the Avengers movie, the cat is totally out of the bag. SHIELD are now the public organization that the government has in place to deal with the Super Hero's and Aliens out there, sort of like all the modern day security organizations the U.S. has in the real world. They don't have to hide who they are anymore. I am totally fine with that, because complete secrecy can become a very tedious thing to have to maintain in a world full of the craziness that was unleashed with all the movies.

With regards to the rule of the thread. I should point out the stuff Stele posted with regards to the interview. I personally didn't have a problem with it, because they didn't give any information away I wasn't already expecting. I don't know if others feel the same way but it would probably be a good idea to avoid posting quotes from interviews or casting choices etc. Or if you just have to spoiler tag it and warn people. Posting links to that kind of stuff is totally cool though. That way people can chose for themselves to go check it out.

Wasn't sure I wanted to mention this but I ultimately felt it was better to mention it now before someone posted something people got super upset about.

Huh? The only thing confirmed in that article is "No X-Men/mutants". The other part I quoted was just speculation about movie tie ins. Considering Maria Hill was in the pilot episode, how is the idea that it might happen again a spoiler?

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised by the negative reaction here.... given that it was only an hour, and they had to do all their scene setting and backstory, I thought they really did pretty well.

I mean, yeah, it could suck, and there's not yet a lot of charisma in evidence (well, except from Coulson, who I think will be able to carry the series very well indeed), but given the limitations of all the exposition they had to do, the only other approach I can think of would be the "explain nothing, and let the audience catch up" method.... which the channel execs probably wouldn't allow in the pilot episode.

I dunno, it just seems too early to have strong opinions.

ccesarano wrote:

In truth, some of the techno-gadgetry and the flying car at the end DID feel out of place. Sure, you have an airborne aircraft carrier that can cloak, but it seems like that's more down-to-Earth than a flying car and random little flying robot cameras, in a sense. However, I'm willing to give it time. I just hope they don't go too over the top, or save some of that stuff for silly jokes.

Similar small drones are actually available to purchase right now. Though I sort-of agree on the feel. That's part of the premise, I think; down-to-earth humans with a bit of tech taking on giants.

I mean, my roommate pointed out that they're supposed to be a top secret organization, but their logo is plastered on everything they use, from cars to planes to trains to automobiles. However, I'm willing to overlook it for the most part.

We'll see how they do with the limited budget of television, though.

I chalk the logos up to comic-book logic (which is sometimes very similar to Hollywood logic).

Just watched this, really dug it. It didn't ask too much, was fun and funny, and entertained us quite sufficiently.

Just finished watching it on Hulu. Thank you commercials for reaffirming my decision to not watch broadcast TV on a regular basis.

Oh yeah. Joss show is a Joss show. I liked it but it really feels like after 4/5 shows now he needs some new archtypes to play with. It also felt like a typical Joss intro: here's the crazy world, here's your cast (sarcastic authority figure, eccentric nerd, the normal, the muscle), oh crap we've just spent half the show doing nothing but yammer, quick do some action! Completely agree with ccessarano... part of the reason Firefly's pilot was great was because they had 2x as much time to do the setup instead of trying to cram everything into a single 45 minute block. Sadly, Fox passed on that and went with episode 2 as the kickoff :/ Also, SHEPARD BOOK! YAY! (Someone said there was more Serenity comics in the works? Source? Please be true!)

The dialogue didn't feel nearly as snappy as I've come to expect from this production team. Not sure if that's the cast or the writers at this point. Quick IMDB search shows this is a fairly new slate of actors and very few of them have worked with Mutant Enemy before. I feel like they're probably spending more on Special FX than the actual cast Totally nodding my head in the science duo needs to chill out or something. Maybe Bioshock: Infinite spoiled me but if they're going for an R&G approach they're trying too hard as was pointed out earlier.

Plot was ok I guess. I could've done without them condensing the first season of Heroes into a single episode Hopefully the writing/plot won't go off the rails as quickly as it did in Heroes. I like where they're going with this though. A bit of Heroes, a dollop of X-Files/Fringe, and a side of Joss. But I feel like this isn't as strong a start as I would've liked to see. Would probably rank it behind Dollhouse (which ranks behind Firefly and Angel but ahead of Buffy and distant Joss/Mutant Enemy cousin Drive).

EDIT: One thing I did catch on was the way they spoke about the "Attack on New York" in hushed tones and how "everything changed that day". If that's not bludgeoning the audience with a 9/11 analogy/allegory I don't know what is. And "Rising Tide" is Anonymous/Wikileaks/Edward Snowden.

Oh and I loved the callback to Back to the Future at the end. Amazing how affordable good CGI has become these days.

Malor wrote:

I dunno, it just seems too early to have strong opinions.

Like most Mutant Enemy shows, this is probably going to be a slow burn for a portion of the season. Dollhouse didn't start to get interesting until late in the first season and probably would've reached that point sooner if they had anyone other than Eliza Dushku as the lead and/or had Echo do something other than femme fatale each episode. Or if they had started focusing on characters other than Echo sooner.

ccesarano wrote:
PRG103 wrote:
Gaald wrote:

They also did a little play on the "With great power comes great...." line too.

I chuckled at that.

This is where I think people are going to be hung up on the humor and dialog. I cracked a smirk, but I didn't laugh and figured it was an easy mark.

We giggled at that too because that was a good way to subvert the line

shoptroll wrote:

I could've done without them condensing the first season of Heroes into a single episode Hopefully the writing/plot won't go off the rails as quickly as it did in Heroes.

I did start making Heroes comparisons mentally while I was watching.

EDIT: One thing I did catch on was the way they spoke about the "Attack on New York" in hushed tones and how "everything changed that day". If that's not bludgeoning the audience with a 9/11 analogy/allegory I don't know what is. And "Rising Tide" is Anonymous/Wikileaks/Edward Snowden.

Skye, at the very least, seems like a post-Snowden take on hackivism. Which is closer to an '90s view than an '00s.

Oh and I loved the callback to Back to the Future at the end. Amazing how affordable good CGI has become these days.

There was a ridiculous amount of CGI that was probably still not the big ticket on the budget. (Union Station, on the other hand...)

Gremlin wrote:

I did start making Heroes comparisons mentally while I was watching.

Reading back through the thread again, someone listed out the producers and one of them worked on Heroes. So I guess that's to be expected?

Gremlin wrote:

Which is closer to an '90s view than an '00s.

How long until they start talking about Gibsons, 28.8 baud modems, RISC chips, and hacking the planet?

Stele wrote:

Huh? The only thing confirmed in that article is "No X-Men/mutants". The other part I quoted was just speculation about movie tie ins. Considering Maria Hill was in the pilot episode, how is the idea that it might happen again a spoiler? :D

Like I said Stele I didn't have a problem with your post, nor has anyone else said anything to me about it problematic.

I just thought I should get ahead of others who might see that and think it's OK to start posting every interview because some of that stuff may have spoiler worthy material. Such as casting choices and characters that will be coming up in the series, or story lines from the comics etc. I really would like this thread to just be about the episodes everyone has had a chance to see, and none of the outside stuff you find all over the place these days.

The show alone has given us a lot talk about so far, and we have only watched the one episode! It's great!

shoptroll: I can confirm Serenity comics, there was an article in the last 10 days on CBR. I think it's an ongoing series, like the Buffy comics.

My reaction to the pilot: It was okay. I disliked a good deal of the humor, but deeply appreciated the tiny references to Marvel stuff (the Black Widow, Extremis). I loved seeing Ron Glass and would love to see him regularly.

One thing I HATE, and have since the movie: Cobie Smulders is not Maria Hill. Love HIMYM, but she's terribly miscast - or so I thought, until this episode's writing made it clear that they've just lifted the name Maria Hill and are paying no attention whatsoever to her comic book persona. Maybe if I look at it that way, I'll learn to accept it.

In my house, my wife brought up the Back to the Future bit, and I played the role of spider_j.

About the logos: Where did they say that SHIELD is top secret? I don't believe they are in the comics, in the sense that their existence is known.

Gaald: Totally with you on your understanding of the Coulson issue. I assumed what you did, and now it sounds like it could be the other way around.

Anyway, I'm a guaranteed viewer for quite a while, as a big Marvel reader, Firefly fanatic, and SHIELD fan. If they manage to slip in the phrase "Nick Fury was right" I will probably squeal like a 4 year-old girl.

Gremlin wrote:

There was a ridiculous amount of CGI that was probably still not the big ticket on the budget. (Union Station, on the other hand...)

Eh, most of the Union Station scenes were done in areas they could easily cordon off. The events at the start by the ticket booths is an area they don't even use. It's always shut off except when filming is taking place.

The area of the final showdown is in the back of the station and can be shut off without much redirecting of foot traffic. There's a subway entrance there, but it's off to the side.

You really don't see anything taking place in the main areas of the station.

Mantid wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

There was a ridiculous amount of CGI that was probably still not the big ticket on the budget. (Union Station, on the other hand...)

Eh, most of the Union Station scenes were done in areas they could easily cordon off. The events at the start by the ticket booths is an area they don't even use. It's always shut off except when filming is taking place.

The area of the final showdown is in the back of the station and can be shut off without much redirecting of foot traffic. There's a subway entrance there, but it's off to the side.

You really don't see anything taking place in the main areas of the station.

Not having been in Union Station in LA, I stand corrected.

Veloxi wrote:

Just watched this, really dug it. It didn't ask too much, was fun and funny, and entertained us quite sufficiently.

So what you're saying is we can gauge our enjoyment of this show by roughly how much we enjoyed Pacific Rim?