Holy S**t! Pope resigns

The Church here appears to be fighting for the right of employers to offer the compensations they feel reflect their values.

No, they're fighting for the right to impose their values on people over whom they have an unusual amount of power. They're trying to make the use of contraception difficult for their employees. Instead of using persuasion, and having confidence that what they say is true and that their employees will believe them, they are using coercion.

If you aren't willing to admit that to yourself, then I don't know what to tell you. You're willing to ignore any data we give you to hold to that idea that we're trying to beat up on the Catholic Church, when at least in my case, I was more talking about Hobby Lobby.

I don't think any employer has the right to tell you how you can use your medical coverage.

Paleocon: please rename thread to "Holy S**t! People think arguing with LarryC is going to get them somewhere!"

You just gotta have faith, Quintin.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Paleocon: please rename thread to "Holy S**t! People think arguing with LarryC is going to get them somewhere!"

It's weird to say this, but Quintin Stone may be the wisest person here.

LarryC probably already knows this, but I do admit to having an axe to grind with Catholics. I think their moral positions on many issues, mainly those unique to Catholic thinking (because let's be honest, anything not unique to their thinking has been figured out by dozens of religions, philosophies and societies for what amounts to thousands of years) are not only patently ridiculous, but often demonstrably harmful to human psychology and society.

I have similar problems with other religions, such as how Islam treats women and critics, how Hinduism promotes an oppressive caste system, how Scientology encourages isolation from family, etc. I'm more passionate about Catholicism and Christianity in general because they are the most prevalent in my country and I have the most experience with those two (I was raised Catholic but also have plenty of experience in other Christian sects). I honestly don't see why having an axe to grind is a problem. I see the potential future elimination of oppressive, indoctrinating organizations as better for society, and do not hide behind some diplomatic politeness when people are actively harmed by it.

NSMike wrote:

I honestly don't see why having an axe to grind is a problem. I see the potential future elimination of oppressive, indoctrinating organizations as better for society, and do not hide behind some diplomatic politeness when people are actively harmed by it.

Many of the people who self-identify as belonging to one faith or another may not necessarily agree with the particular elements of dogma that we consider harmful (and may in fact be actively working to change things), but when we indict all followers of a faith as a whole, it's tantamount to suggesting that such people do not exist or that their efforts do not matter etc.

juv3nal wrote:
NSMike wrote:

I honestly don't see why having an axe to grind is a problem. I see the potential future elimination of oppressive, indoctrinating organizations as better for society, and do not hide behind some diplomatic politeness when people are actively harmed by it.

Many of the people who self-identify as belonging to one faith or another may not necessarily agree with the particular elements of dogma that we consider harmful (and may in fact be actively working to change things), but when we indict all followers of a faith as a whole, it's tantamount to suggesting that such people do not exist or that their efforts do not matter etc.

In that particular quote, I said "organization," not followers. Admittedly, I used "Catholics" above, and that's an unclear descriptor, that could be applied to followers, but I don't mean to indict followers of Catholicism, many of whom are just as much a victim of their own faith as I used to be. My beef is with the organization and the dogma it promotes.

Finally. A scandal that doesn't involve little boys.

Instead it's MTV's Cribs Catholic-style. A German Bishop is in hot water for spending some €31 million on a building project, including more than €3 million on his own personal apartment.

I'm not stepping foot in that other Pope thread, but:
Pope Francis sets up Vatican child sex abuse committee

Pope Francis is to set up a Vatican committee to fight sexual abuse of children in the Catholic Church and offer help to victims.

The announcement, by the archbishop of Boston, follows a meeting between the Pope and his eight cardinal advisers.

It comes days after the Vatican refused a UN request for information on alleged abuse by priests, nuns or monks.

One of the main Italian associations of clerical abuse survivors has said it has "little trust" in the Vatican.

This comes a day after the Vatican refused to disclose information to the UN Committee on the Rights of Children about whether or not priests guilty of sexual abuse still had access to children and whether the Church required clergy to report abuse to secular authorities.

This also comes nearly three decades after the first abuse convictions.

OG_slinger wrote:

This comes a day after the Vatican refused to disclose information to the UN Committee on the Rights of Children about whether or not priests guilty of sexual abuse still had access to children and whether the Church required clergy to report abuse to secular authorities.

This also comes nearly three decades after the first abuse convictions.

Yes, I quoted that bit of the article.

Me no read good sometimes.

OG_slinger wrote:

Me no read good sometimes.

Maybe the thread title should be changed. Every damn time this thread gets bumped, my first thought is "Again?".

Gonna lock this old one up. Maybe you people can start a new one with a more specific bent.