10 Reasons why I like EQ2 better than WoW

This is entirely good natured, and is designed only to bring balance to the boards or the force or something.

10) Graphical diversity in Avatars (too my eyes every human, dwarf and elf looks the same in WoW (Gnomes shall be dealt with later)). The Horde is better, but even with the taurens you start seeing the same combo of fur and horns. In Norrath you see every shade of skin, plus the advantage of more races, even an unlock-able one.

9) Remote areas of a zone feel more remote (zone size) in Norrath. This goes hand in hand with WoW zones being too small. Everywhere I went in Westfall and Lakeshire and Loch Modan (sp?) felt cramped and never spooky. The Windstalker village area in Antonica, feels remote, isolated and ominous.

8) Crafting seems more fun in EQ2, more interactive.

7) Griffin rides are Free!

6) The LFG options are more elegant in 2, almost all pick up groups I have been in have not formed due to shouts and ooc but instead a group leader using the LFG options too put together a well rounded group. I have very rarely even seen LFG spam in 2, while I noticed a good bit in WoW

5) I can leave ooc and shout on in Everquest and not have them constantly involve the ravings of the lunatic fringe or taunts involving some dwarf's Momma!

4) Voice acting: a few NPCs do get repetitive if they say the same thing every time you run by, but with many of the Quest NPCs it really does add to the experience IMO.

3) Death is just a little more tuned in Norrath, one does not want to get debt, but the possibility of it heightens the thrill, and while both games have item decay, 2's is more forgiving. I guess I would rather have harsher exp penalties than equipment penalties.

2) Everquest looks more realistic, I know for allot of you WoWs art direction is brilliant and I would agree, but I find the cartoonishness of it not as immersing as the more realistic presentation in 2 (especially for the Alliance side), which leads me directly to my trump card.....

1) Gnomes! What the hell was blizzard thinking? The Gnomes in WoW look like the Queer Eye guys gave a make over to some Japanese Manga Lil Person. Gnomes in Everquest on the other hand can be Evil! Nuff Said.

In all seriousness though they are both great games, and I do believe that WoW is more newbie friendly. I hope that SOE allows a free trial period for EQ2 so more people can see if it is right for them. I and the other vastly outnumbered Norrathians will now Diminish and go into the West!

Nice post Ferret! EQ2 definitely has some good points for it, wish I had time to play both.

Gnomes! What the hell was blizzard thinking? The Gnomes in WoW look like the Queer Eye guys gave a make over to some Japanese Manga Lil Person.

Exactly. I loved the look of WoW but I despise the Gnomes.

Once I get done with my deadlines I''m going to pick up one or the other. I dropped all my SWG accounts... JTLS was not the savior everyone hoped (and SWG needed).

I still dont know which one I will choose. Almost all my friends are playing WOW, but I''ve had the most fun (and the most frustrating) MMO experiences with EQ1.

I''ll just keep reading the boards and watching what happens.

Keep posts like these coming! This is totally objective.. thanks Ferret!

PAR

I think Blizzard pretty much wasted their art on gnomes and trolls and tauren+orc females.

Nobody in their right mind is going to play as those characters.

I think Blizzard pretty much wasted their art on gnomes and trolls and tauren+orc females.

Nobody in their right mind is going to play as those characters.

Some people really like them. Karla included!

From my own personal experience, I would agree with you about tauren and orc females (tauren especially, I have spent a couple of days in the tauren areas and seen about 2 female Tauren PC''s), but there are quite a few gnomes and trolls running about.

Those are all valid points about EQ2 but I like WoW sooo much better than EQ2. Here are some reasons

1. EQ2''s performance is ass. I have a Athlon 64 3200 with 1gig ram and I get about 15fps in EQ2. Not to mention that you have to reboot pretty much every 4-5 hours due to it getting real sluggish. I can run WoW at 1280x1024 with everything turned on for 12 hours straight and get a smooth framerate with not one bit of the sluggishness the whole time.

2. No XP debt. Not only does EQ2 have debt when you die, but if anyone in your group dies you get stuck with XP debt as well. There''s always some idiot that goes out and gets himself killed in your party due to his stupidity.

3. This has to do with #1 a little but the graphics in EQ2 are also pretty bad. The only word I can describe the graphics in EQ2 are ugly. Especially the character models. I don''t think there is a computer out right now that could run EQ2 in a higher graphics mode to improve character models and buildings. I think its not even close in the graphics department, WoW wins hands down.

4. Crafting in WoW is much easier. Granted EQ2''s crafting system is more in depth but not in a good way. Sure you can use the 3 skills that apply to what you are crafting to improve the items and fix any flaws that pop up but it seems this is done just to keep people busy in the timesink. When I craft I just want to know if I have the right ingredients and not have to worry about anything else. The crafting process in EQ2 is start crafting, wait for the flaws to appear then hit the corresponding icon to fix whatever problem comes up. In WoW I just have to tell how many I want then forget it.

5. Instance zones. Some people may like this but I don''t. It''s hard to coordinate with your party when you change zones. We always had to wait 5-10 minutes to get everyone in the same zone.

Those are just a few of the points that come to mind when I think of the two. I played the hell out of the EQ2 beta and loved every minute of it. I bought the retail version when it came out. But when I started playing WoW and seeing it improve the things I didn''t like about EQ my desire to play EQ waned considerably. I went back to say goodbye to my old guild in EQ2 and spent a couple of hours in the game and it just wasn''t any fun to play compared to WoW.

Alot of these points are just personal preference. EQ2 is not a bad game, just unfinished. Sony definately rushed it to release so they could beat WoW and it shows. WoW is so much more polished over EQ it''s not even close. I might return to EQ2 in a few months to see if it gets any better and I might change my mind then. But granted it is a SOE game so my expectations will be very, very low.

Granted EQ2''s crafting system is more in depth but not in a good way. Sure you can use the 3 skills that apply to what you are crafting to improve the items and fix any flaws that pop up but it seems this is done just to keep people busy in the timesink.

Actually, those buttons do more than merely countering problems, and once you level a bit and unlock more buttons (at 13, I have two buttons for each flaw), there are some strategic choices to be made. You can opt to make a bunch of tradeoffs, depending on which craft you''re working with: power for durability, power for progress, durability for progress or vice versa, chance of success for progress or durability.. and all the ones that apply to any given task are generally useful at some point.

Plus you have to react to flaws while doing all that.. and if you hit the wrong button right after a flaw came up because you were busy trading power for progress, the flaw will often hit you. So now you need timing on top of hasty strategic decisions.

I admit that most of this is not really available for the first few crafting levels, though, and the game does a very good job of making it nonobvious.

When I craft I just want to know if I have the right ingredients and not have to worry about anything else.

Of course, all this is irrelevant because of this desire on your part. Have fun in strawberry, I''ll be enjoying my vanilla-flavored MMORPG experience over here.

Now switching from reply to new thoughts..

Honestly, from everything I read, it seems like the main difference between WoW and EQ2 is difficulty. EQ2 requires you to find a group to make any progress in adventuring, requires you to do a great deal more work and competition to craft stuff, makes you use spoiler sites or work hard to find and complete quests, etc.

In contrast, WoW, which I admit to not having played, is eminently soloable, holds your hand through the entire questing process, makes crafting nice and simple, etc. Its difficulty shows up in instances and pvp.

I prefer EQ2 because I like climbing over obstacles.

Actually, part of the reason I like gnomes is because there is so much gnome hate. I''ve always liked the underdog, and it doesn''t get any more under than a gnome. Poor lil gnomes! No home town! Shorter than a short short thing!

Plus, Ronsy is as cute as a button, smaller than a 6 year old, and kicks some major ass. It''s also nice to play a female where the armor doesn''t end up looking like Frederick''s of Azeroth.

I''m waiting for PVP to be introduced to EQ, it is coming!

"hoochie" wrote:

Actually, part of the reason I like gnomes is because there is so much gnome hate. I''ve always liked the underdog, and it doesn''t get any more under than a gnome. Poor lil gnomes! No home town! Shorter than a short short thing!

Plus, Ronsy is as cute as a button, smaller than a 6 year old, and kicks some major ass. It''s also nice to play a female where the armor doesn''t end up looking like Frederick''s of Azeroth.

I have played a gnome in online games since EQ, I was once banned from EQ for starting a gnomish uprising. Gnomes kick ass.

"Badferret" wrote:

1) Gnomes! What the hell was blizzard thinking? The Gnomes in WoW look like the Queer Eye guys gave a make over to some Japanese Manga Lil Person. Gnomes in Everquest on the other hand can be Evil! Nuff Said.

Well, looks like I may have to rethink, thinking about buying WoW... I''ll admit I am a gnome freak ;), for some reason I have this strange compulsion to play gnomes in all games.

Optimistic, I just disagree on the graphics (not the performance) issue. To my eyes EQ2 just looks better (and I run it mostly on the performance side of the graphics settings) To give an example of another head-to-head graphical comparison where I feel 2 beats WoW would be the Gnolls. The EQ Gnolls look sleek and realistic (as realistic as imaginary dog people can) while to me the WoW Gnolls invoked a kinda Disney monster. Again my intention was in no way to disparage WoW, I think it is a great game, and if EQ2 was not here I would probably be quite happy while spending way to much time in Azeroth.

Oh and to be fair and balanced, here is one point where WoW definitely beats EQ2. The Selling of items, there is no auction house in Everquest, instead each character has to buy a market board and hang it in there house. While the market board''s cost is negligible (it still should just come with player housing) it forces a player to keep upkeep on a house (minimum 5 silver a week) in order to do automatic selling. The biggest kicker is that the character must be logged in for your shop to be open. To me this is turning out to not be a big issue, I just leave the game running overnight and check what sold before work and then log out. But forcing someone to stay logged in and keep the computer running is not elegant design at all. I can just imagine the news story it would make during the next California energy crisis, where a reporter finds someone to say, ""well I''d like to turn off my computer and conserver energy, but this Japanese company requires I leave it on in order to play a game properly"". WoW auction house is great, drop an item off, and check your mail after awhile.

To give an example of another head-to-head graphical comparison where I feel 2 beats WoW would be the Gnolls. The EQ Gnolls look sleek and realistic (as realistic as imaginary dog people can) while to me the WoW Gnolls invoked a kinda Disney monster.

This sounds to me less like a graphics comparison than an art design comparison. EQ does have better graphics, in that everything is a lot more detailed...sitting next to a fire and watching the light and shadow play across every ring in your maille is quite the experience, and you can only get that in EQ. That sort of thing is, however, not what I look for in a MMORPG.

I prefer the art design in WoW - it''s just more my taste. And yes, it is more cartoony, less detailed, and less impressive on a purely ""ooh, technology!"" level.

I like the gnomes! They''re cool! I haven''t played one yet, but I felt pretty bad when I had to lay waste to them with my Tauren Shaman.

This may just be my human prejudice talking but Taurens all look way too much alike. I can never tell who is who and they all look just like me.

I''ve never played EQ2 but it looks and sounds great, like they''ve really tried to finesse the weaknesses of EQ1. However, since I still regularly feel pangs of panic and regret over playing WoW ( or any MMORPG really), there''s no way in hell I''m going to venture to Norrath too!

Just to clarify, that is a bit of exaggeration when you say that WoW holds your hands through quests. That is absolutely not true. Quest clues in WoW can be just as vague as EQ2. To me the fact that you can complete quests all the time in WoW doesnt mean that they are easy, it means they are tuned. Tuned = better design and better polish. Really just because someone has a question makr over their head and someone else has an exclamation point doesnt prevent WoW from having challenging quests. Anyone who claims they felt WoW questing was just going from question mark to exclamation point didnt play any character past level 5. That is equivilent to 1 hour of play time. Sorry, 1 hour opinnions should be kept to yourselves, unless a game is horribly buggy enough to be unplayable.

RE: Crafting.

While I like the WoW crafting, and while I think it REALLY fits in as a secondary skill for my toon, I did really like what I saw of the EQ2 crafting.

I only played the beta, so maybe I''m really misjudging, but it seems like you could almost make a life for yourself as purely a crafter... the crafting seems fun, and is difficult to the point where it seems rewarding. In WoW, once I click on ""Chain Boots"" I know I''m getting Chain Boots exactly like all the other chain boots I''ve ever made, and just like the next guy makes... but with EQ2, there''s a lot of variety, or at least it seems like there is.

In beta, I was overwhelmed with crafting to the point where I didn''t even pursue it with my main character... I was working too hard on questing to sit and craft. In WoW, it follows a much more natural progression... I''m a Paladin who wears Mail... so I train mining and smithing... kill some stuff, OOH, a vein, mine it... back to town to level... OOH, let''s make myself some Boots.

I think it''s personal preference. If you REALLY like crafting, then I think you have to go EQ2. WoW crafting is more of a secondary skill to go along with your character''s progression. EQ2 crafting is a Profession in itself.

Alot of these points are just personal preference. EQ2 is not a bad game, just unfinished. Sony definately rushed it to release so they could beat WoW and it shows. WoW is so much more polished over EQ it''s not even close.

None of your points are signs of a rushed game. The launch went pretty smoothly, and not liking a design choice has nothing to do with a game being unpolished.

Anyone who claims they felt WoW questing was just going from question mark to exclamation point didnt play any character past level 5.

I had about 3 or 4 characters over level 10 on different servers. There were quests that you couldn''t do without a group when you received them. Quests that you received about 7 levels too early. Its not that there was no difficulty in ANY of the quests, but more that I don''t want to feel compelled to talk to someone just because they have an exclamation point over their head.

I''ve completed over 50 quests at level 11 in EQ2 and am just now getting to the ones that seem to require a group. They aren''t always as easy as in WoW but this is a big shocker typically people are more willing to help. In WoW most of the time people ignored me. In EQ2 people are generally a lot more helpful and don''t act like you are wasting their time.

I just see people who play EQ2 in these forums as typically more objective than the WoW fans. If you don''t like anything about EQ2 its because the game was rushed, and poorly designed. However, WoW is perfect and everyone must like it, and if you don''t then you must have not spent enough time playing it.

I''m one of the only people playing EQ2, and if I didn''t seriously like it better than WoW I would be playing with my good buddy Reaper helping him level up for Wednesday night.

I just see people who play EQ2 in these forums as typically more objective than the WoW fans. If you don''t like anything about EQ2 its because the game was rushed, and poorly designed. However, WoW is perfect and everyone must like it, and if you don''t then you must have not spent enough time playing it.

Really? We may joke that WoW is the end-all/be-all, the same way that if you smack talk JO, you''ll get shanked, but it''s all in good fun (at least for me). As you can see from my previous post, I think WoW is the better game (for me) but I enjoyed EQ2 and can see its merits.

"Badferret" wrote:

10) Graphical diversity in Avatars (too my eyes every human, dwarf and elf looks the same in WoW (Gnomes shall be dealt with later)). The Horde is better, but even with the taurens you start seeing the same combo of fur and horns. In Norrath you see every shade of skin, plus the advantage of more races, even an unlock-able one.

I think part of this is people just taking the look that comes up initially instead of playing with it.

9) Remote areas of a zone feel more remote (zone size) in Norrath. This goes hand in hand with WoW zones being too small. Everywhere I went in Westfall and Lakeshire and Loch Modan (sp?) felt cramped and never spooky. The Windstalker village area in Antonica, feels remote, isolated and ominous.

I can''t do a comparison, but I have certainly felt ""too far from home"" and uncomfortable about it, in WoW.

8) Crafting seems more fun in EQ2, more interactive.

I don''t really want interactive crafting. I want the ""Craft all"" button that WoW gives me. I love crafting in WoW. Biggest experience has been in Cooking what I''ve fished, but it''s nice not to have to rub salt on and continually turn 60 Brilliant smallfish for the next 10 minutes. ""Craft all"" is a godsend.

6) The LFG options are more elegant in 2, almost all pick up groups I have been in have not formed due to shouts and ooc but instead a group leader using the LFG options too put together a well rounded group. I have very rarely even seen LFG spam in 2, while I noticed a good bit in WoW
5) I can leave ooc and shout on in Everquest and not have them constantly involve the ravings of the lunatic fringe or taunts involving some dwarf''s Momma!

I haven''t found I''ve needed groups much yet, but when I do, it''s easier to grab Some Random Player #23 who happens to be looking apprehensively at the same microdungeon I am, do the quest, and be done with it, than to ""find a well rounded group"". I think this is one of the greatest things about WoW''s design. You don''t have to get the holy trinity together, any 2 or 3 guys will do, so far. As far as chatspam goes, /leave General weeds out the vast majority of asshats, and I''ve found it easy to ignore the red /yell text, as it''s much harder to read than the green /guild text.

3) Death is just a little more tuned in Norrath, one does not want to get debt, but the possibility of it heightens the thrill, and while both games have item decay, 2''s is more forgiving. I guess I would rather have harsher exp penalties than equipment penalties.

I''d much rather spend a little time fishing to pay for equipment repair than the next 2 play sessions making up for some random add taking me out because I got lost. 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other, I think. I hated XP loss/debt and am glad WoW went with another option.

2) Everquest looks more realistic, I know for allot of you WoWs art direction is brilliant and I would agree, but I find the cartoonishness of it not as immersing as the more realistic presentation in 2 (especially for the Alliance side), which leads me directly to my trump card.....

I find it easier to get immersed in less ""realistic"" games than I do with ones that attempt photorealism. I''d also rather spend an afternoon viewing Matisse than Ansel Adams. Personal taste.

1) Gnomes! What the hell was blizzard thinking? The Gnomes in WoW look like the Queer Eye guys gave a make over to some Japanese Manga Lil Person. Gnomes in Everquest on the other hand can be Evil! Nuff Said.

I think they''re cute, and if you''ve never seen one dance, grab some $1 bills and head to the nearest inn. Whoo boy those little ladies are dirty, dirty, dirty.

"optimistic" wrote:

2. No XP debt. Not only does EQ2 have debt when you die, but if anyone in your group dies you get stuck with XP debt as well. There''s always some idiot that goes out and gets himself killed in your party due to his stupidity.

The more hardcore will say that''s part of the challenge, but I just wanna have fun. WoW wins for me.

4. Crafting in WoW is much easier. Granted EQ2''s crafting system is more in depth but not in a good way. Sure you can use the 3 skills that apply to what you are crafting to improve the items and fix any flaws that pop up but it seems this is done just to keep people busy in the timesink. When I craft I just want to know if I have the right ingredients and not have to worry about anything else. The crafting process in EQ2 is start crafting, wait for the flaws to appear then hit the corresponding icon to fix whatever problem comes up. In WoW I just have to tell how many I want then forget it.

Two words again. ""Craft all"". Sure, they still make me take the same amount of time to create the items as if I had to babysit the process, but I just want to click ""grind crafting skill"" and watch the numbers go up and inventory change.

5. Instance zones. Some people may like this but I don''t. It''s hard to coordinate with your party when you change zones. We always had to wait 5-10 minutes to get everyone in the same zone.

I never thought a zoneless world would a)make much of a difference or b) even work, but I have noticed a lot lately that it is really nice and adds a lot to the immersiveness that I don''t have to have an out-of-avatar experience just to go to town or cross a continent. Sure, there are a few of them. Like a trans-oceanic flight, but I don''t do that often, and it doesn''t detract any more than hearing gunshots in a high-fantasy setting. It''s a bigger deal than you''d think, having a zoneless world.

Not trying to be argumentative, just giving my own good-natured thoughts on WoW and the points raised. I think most of it comes down to very subjective ideas of fun and immersiveness.

As you all know I like EQ2 over WoW but also think WoW is a solid game.

I do hate zoning in EQ2 because I got use to not having to deal with zones for the most part after EQ. At least as you get up there in levels the size of zones increase but I still do not like it and like even less that I have to double click and at times pick an instance number to zone.

As I said before though EQ2 as a game seems a bit more focused as an adventurer game and WoW a bit more as an action game.

I got to nearly level 20 as a warrior in the WoW beta and I am now a 24 Paladin 18 crafter in EQ2. I did feel as if WoW held my hand more, quests were more laid out and the game play more linear than in comparision to EQ2 but the amount of differences was still small.

Well, here''s my bit on a couple of these ""issues"".

XP/Debt: This is really a non-issue unless you die A LOT. I''m playing a tissue paper mage-type, and as of level 18 I''ve died quite a few times. At no point has the xp debt done more than slow me down for about 30 minutes. Shared xp debt is pretty negligible. Most of my shared xp debt is gone after one or two fights. It''s a deterrent because it''s irritating, but ""two play sessions"" to clear it? That''s a serious exaggeration.

Quests: As of last night I''ve cleared over 100 quests in EQ2. Of those, I needed a group for maybe 4 or 5. Maybe. I only had one quest that absolutely required a group (A Foul Wind) since you had to have a group to enter the private instance.

Difficulty: WoW is definately a simpler, more straightforward game. That''s neither a good thing or a bad thing. Some people like it, some don''t. Personally, I don''t care either way.

Graphics: I prefer EQ2s . . . marginally. I think WoW has a richer color palette (despite it''s cartoony-ness) but EQ2 has better models and effects.

Performance: I''m currently running EQ2 on a P4 2.4 at 1280x1024 in performance mode with a few custom extras. The game runs fine about 99% of the time. Now, did WoW run better? Absolutely, but then it''s a less graphically intensive game--it had better run better!

I don''t doubt that someday I''ll pick up WoW and play it in retail, but I only have time for one game at a time, and the EQ2 beta held my interest better than WoW''s did. Alas, even CoH is falling by the wayside . . .

I just heard something about EQ2 today from some EQ2 players, is it true that from level 20 to 50 you get 1/3 the experience per solo kill? If so, does that mean [color=red]hell levels[/color] all over again if you like to solo?

"Flux" wrote:

I just heard something about EQ2 today from some EQ2 players, is it true that from level 20 to 50 you get 1/3 the experience per solo kill? If so, does that mean [color=red]hell levels[/color] all over again if you like to solo? :shock:

Not seen this in practice to but since they do not give hard numbers it is sort of hard to make or refute this claim.

What they may have been trying to say is that if you kill a creature that is tagged as solo it is less xp than killing a creature that is tagged as group.

That would be certainly true and not unreasonable to think it would either.

"Flux" wrote:

I just heard something about EQ2 today from some EQ2 players, is it true that from level 20 to 50 you get 1/3 the experience per solo kill? If so, does that mean [color=red]hell levels[/color] all over again if you like to solo? :shock:

You get level exp from solo mobs than you do from group mobs. At level 13, I''m soloing group mobs for level 10 characters.

"Flux" wrote:

I just heard something about EQ2 today from some EQ2 players, is it true that from level 20 to 50 you get 1/3 the experience per solo kill? If so, does that mean [color=red]hell levels[/color] all over again if you like to solo? :shock:

Not having quite made it to the post 20 game, I can''t refute or confirm that with any authority.

However, the wording makes me suspect it''s a misunderstanding. Mobs classed as ""solo"" are worth approximately 1/3 the xp of mobs classed as ""group"", maybe less. If you read the detailed ""con"" text for group mobs, it says ""this monster is suitable for a group of 3 or more people.""

I sincerely doubt they''d reduce the xp value of solo mobs post level 20 as there''s really no reason to do so. Groups already provide more excitement and better xp over time (in my experience anyhow), so why further penalize those who prefer to play solo?

Besides, if they really did that, people would just do what Ulairi''s doing--solo green/blue con group mobs.

I agree, basically you just get less xp for solo mobs, because they are less of a challenge to you at higher levels.

I''m a lvl 21 MOnk right now and having a blast. A lvl 14 crafter and I have hated crafting in all other games. As of last night I have done 148 quests, including one where I had to sneak through the sewers to check something in Freeport, the evil city.

There is always something to do, whether it be writs for the guild, exploration missions, trying to craft something I got in a dropped book.

I''ll be playing it for awhile at least, and it is cheaper then seeing a movie at the theatre every weekend!

Ye gads most acitve post I''ve ever started. I did play WoW beta up to 18, and am now lvl 20 in EQ2 so while not an expert I thought I could comment on both as objectively as possible. I think long ago I did in another post state (as Fang implied), that WoW quest were running from exclimation to question marks, and that IS an oversimplification. However with WoW quest I found myself not getting the quest story, but just clicking through and seeing the reward, where as in EQ2 especially with the bigger spoken word quest I am really diggin the story. Now this was my experience your mileage may vary. I wont budge on my Avatar opinion though, my highest WoW toon was a Human rogue, and almost all other human rogues I saw looked almost exactly like me (again this was at lvl 18, it might get better after that). My current character is a Kerran warrior, with almost all white fur, and I have yet to see somebody who is the mirror image.

I am now guilded so I solo less, but even as a Guardian (the tankiest of tanks) Soloing is quite possible, to me I have found that green group encounters offer the best exp, and not bad loot. Soloing solo mobs is more of a grind, but I very rarley find myself fighting them unless they aggro on me.

And just to show I could most definetly be wrong with all of this; a while back a friend and I thougt about switching servers to join Maladen''s guild, well that friend who made it to 20 in EQ2 has since switched to WoW. Maybe someday I will too, just not now. Now I have to go, I''m almost to 21! icon_biggrin.gif

I guess the point I was trying to make is that you do in fact incur a steeper ""penalty"" from 20 to 50 (I confirmed this) so SOE fell right back into a bad habit...hell levels.

Well, hell levels were specific levels that were worse than others(or seemed so, whichever). Not a whole 80% of the game in one big streak.