On this thing called "rape culture"

ranalin wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
ranalin wrote:

Trying to stop people from saying the word rape is not going to stop people from doing the act or help the ones it happened to.

The former is debatable, the latter is actually false. Triggers are real things and not casually using the word rape will help prevent triggers.

Triggers are all over the place and pretty much different for everyone who has been raped. Again eliminating the use of the word wont do much.

Well you have multiple people in this thread telling you how it would help them greatly. So there's that.

Gravey wrote:

I never felt so gypped as when I got Jewed out my casual use of the word "rape". If anyone else feels this way, I love you, no homo!

You my n*gga, Gravey.

I'm almost disappointed that no MRA Scouts have popped by to get their "remind people of how terrible it is for a man to be falsely accused of rape" merit badge.

EDIT: uppps, word filter not complete!

shoptroll wrote:
Valmorian wrote:

Not so much, and if we can steer people away from using it in such a manner, all the better.

That's no different than the effort to try and steer people away from calling stuff "gay". It can be done :)

I disagree. Not only are the two different on the intent of their use. The use of calling stuff "gay" is out of our hands except when it comes to who we accociate with and our children. Plus i dont see comparing something to rape as bad.

SixteenBlue wrote:
ranalin wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
ranalin wrote:

Trying to stop people from saying the word rape is not going to stop people from doing the act or help the ones it happened to.

The former is debatable, the latter is actually false. Triggers are real things and not casually using the word rape will help prevent triggers.

Triggers are all over the place and pretty much different for everyone who has been raped. Again eliminating the use of the word wont do much.

Well you have multiple people in this thread telling you how it would help them greatly. So there's that.

And i'm certain i've not used it around them in that matter either.

ranalin wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
ranalin wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
ranalin wrote:

Trying to stop people from saying the word rape is not going to stop people from doing the act or help the ones it happened to.

The former is debatable, the latter is actually false. Triggers are real things and not casually using the word rape will help prevent triggers.

Triggers are all over the place and pretty much different for everyone who has been raped. Again eliminating the use of the word wont do much.

Well you have multiple people in this thread telling you how it would help them greatly. So there's that.

And i'm certain i've not used it around them in that matter either.

Absolutely, I'm not accusing you of doing so. But that's a concrete, real world example of how eliminating the use of the word helped.

ranalin wrote:

Plus i dont see comparing something to rape as bad.

There are vestigial uses of the word in the English language to mean large-scale, forceful robbery or destruction. Like, "Sherman really raped Atlanta when the Union took away the Confederates' self-declared rights to own human beings, but Southerners have been really cool about it and totally let the whole civil war thing go."

Or in the case of Sherman's march to the sea, actual rape.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:
ranalin wrote:

Plus i dont see comparing something to rape as bad.

There are vestigial uses of the word in the English language to mean large-scale, forceful robbery or destruction. Like, "Sherman really raped Atlanta when the Union took away the Confederates' self-declared rights to own human beings, but Southerners have been really cool about it and totally let the whole civil war thing go."

Do people still use the word 'rape' to mean to mean "large-scale, forceful robbery or destruction"? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

I've only ever heard it used either to mean sexual assault, or by people talking about getting trounced at a video game or similar. For me, the word 'rape', regardless of other meanings and usages, means 'sexual assault', and so I never use it to mean anything else as my assumption is that it means that for most other people as well. I figure the English language is full of other ways for me to say "we got our butts kicked", and that those other ways are less likely to be upsetting to someone who is a survivor of sexual assault.

Mimble wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:
ranalin wrote:

Plus i dont see comparing something to rape as bad.

There are vestigial uses of the word in the English language to mean large-scale, forceful robbery or destruction. Like, "Sherman really raped Atlanta when the Union took away the Confederates' self-declared rights to own human beings, but Southerners have been really cool about it and totally let the whole civil war thing go."

Do people still use the word 'rape' to mean to mean "large-scale, forceful robbery or destruction"? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

Further more, doesn't that make 'pillage' or 'plunder' as in the phrases "rape and pillage" or "rape and plunder" redundant?

I've heard the phrase "rape the land" to mean stripping the land of resources.

Using the word rape and saying it has other meanings is, to me, similar to people who use swastikas and say that they weren't only used by the Nazis. It's all about intent and context, and we know that some 14 year old white guy called xXsl4y3rXx playing Black Ops is almost certainly not a Jainist.

Plus I don't understand why you'd want to use that word anyway. Implying that you raped another team in a computer game isn't just inappropriate, it's icky. And it makes you sound like an arsehole. Everytime someone says that it makes me feel uncomfortable, and I've never been sexually assaulted. I can only imagine what it's like for someone who has.

Use a different word, there are thousands and thousands to choose from.

I have to admit that I have a tendency to use "rape" in non-sexual assault situations. It's more like a situation where you're powerless to stop the coercion or force. For example, "Brooklyn residents are being raped by car insurance companies." I guess "highway robbery" is a more acceptable metaphor. I understand that flippantly using the term can be a trigger for some, so I'm trying my best to only mention it when relevant and necessary.

shoptroll wrote:
Valmorian wrote:

Not so much, and if we can steer people away from using it in such a manner, all the better.

That's no different than the effort to try and steer people away from calling stuff "gay". It can be done :)

Just a quick off-topic question: I thought it was still okay to use "gay" as long as it was non-derogatory, such as in the sentence "I had a drink or two last night and left the bar totally gay." Or should we use "tipsy"? (thus losing the "happy" connotation I'd wanted to give it)

I very much have the same stance as Redwing on this one. I've never actually heard an opponent say "I totally raped you", because I avoid games like Call of Duty, and even then, I stick to single player. The only times I've played a multiplayer shooter was on an Escapist TF2 server.
But it would make me very, very, very uncomfortable. And I've never been raped, I was only brought up in a culture which instilled the fear of rape, and gave me a set of behavior rules to follow to avoid that (dress modestly, don't be outside at night, especially not alone, don't go to parties, always keep an eye on your glass, etc, rules that we've established aren't foolproof, for lack of a better word).
I can't even imagine what kind of impact this kind of trigger has. While it cannot change what happened, it would seem like common courtesy to avoid this kind of language. It's unnecessary and can easily be replaced by alternate smack talk such as "I totally beat the crap out of you." It's not as offensive, and gets the point across. Or alternatively, just be a gracious winner.

Redwing wrote:

Plus I don't understand why you'd want to use that word anyway.

Me neither. I've worked with rapists--they are weak, small, lack confidence, and are so consumed by feelings of powerlessness, the only way they can feel they have any power at all is by violating someone else so they feel small and vulnerable, and usually, they are acting out previous sexual abuse that was inflicted on them, if not some other crippling psychological issues. Like Eleima above, I don't often travel in the circles where it's a common phrase, but when I do, I try to point these facts out, and I've found it shuts the speaker right the f*ck up. It's sad to consider, but since empathy doesn't seem to work, maybe throwing what these thing say about themselves back in their face will.

And thinking about it in that light, I think a valid response to "Oh, wut, better to say 'kill?' 'Cause that's a crime too!" is, Yes, because at least killers have a cultural cool. From knights to assassins gunfighters to Seal Team 6, historical and fictional, they have an aura of skill and prowess and danger.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

And thinking about it in that light, I think a valid response to "Oh, wut, better to say 'kill?' 'Cause that's a crime too!" is, Yes, because at least killers have a cultural cool. From knights to assassins gunfighters to Seal Team 6, historical and fictional, they have an aura of skill and prowess and danger.

I'm sure volumes could be written about that particular bit of false equivalence. I could probably go over a few reasons off the top of my head, but I think I'd be preaching to the choir.

Eleima wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
Valmorian wrote:

Not so much, and if we can steer people away from using it in such a manner, all the better.

That's no different than the effort to try and steer people away from calling stuff "gay". It can be done :)

Just a quick off-topic question: I thought it was still okay to use "gay" as long as it was non-derogatory, such as in the sentence "I had a drink or two last night and left the bar totally gay." Or should we use "tipsy"? (thus losing the "happy" connotation I'd wanted to give it)

Yeah, I was referring to the derogatory usage (sorry that wasn't clear). No idea if it's socially acceptable to use the "happy" form of the term.

shoptroll wrote:
Eleima wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
Valmorian wrote:

Not so much, and if we can steer people away from using it in such a manner, all the better.

That's no different than the effort to try and steer people away from calling stuff "gay". It can be done :)

Just a quick off-topic question: I thought it was still okay to use "gay" as long as it was non-derogatory, such as in the sentence "I had a drink or two last night and left the bar totally gay." Or should we use "tipsy"? (thus losing the "happy" connotation I'd wanted to give it)

Yeah, I was referring to the derogatory usage (sorry that wasn't clear). No idea if it's socially acceptable to use the "happy" form of the term.

I think you'd have a tough time using it in a non-derogatory way, not through intent but through misinterpretation*.

[size=8]*Your cultural interpretation may vary.[/size]

Mimble wrote:

Do people still use the word 'rape' to mean to mean "large-scale, forceful robbery or destruction"? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

Well, not really. That's only an archaic meaning.

I was going far, far out of my way to make an oblique comparison that fell flat.

I apologize for the negative contribution.

Redwing wrote:

Using the word rape and saying it has other meanings is, to me, similar to people who use swastikas and say that they weren't only used by the Nazis. It's all about intent and context, and we know that some 14 year old white guy called xXsl4y3rXx playing Black Ops is almost certainly not a Jainist.

Plus I don't understand why you'd want to use that word anyway. Implying that you raped another team in a computer game isn't just inappropriate, it's icky. And it makes you sound like an arsehole. Everytime someone says that it makes me feel uncomfortable, and I've never been sexually assaulted. I can only imagine what it's like for someone who has.

For starters that's not what anyone (at least in this thread) has said. While i've occasionally heard someone stating that they're going to rape our team or me, and ya that is on the icky side, it's normally what i posted above and stating our team got raped or jokes along those lines like 'they didnt even use lube this time'. This also isnt just found in video games, but in teams sports venacular as well.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:
Mimble wrote:

Do people still use the word 'rape' to mean to mean "large-scale, forceful robbery or destruction"? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

Well, not really. That's only an archaic meaning.

I was going far, far out of my way to make an oblique comparison that fell flat.

I apologize for the negative contribution.

I don't think it was a negative contribution, the word has been used to mean something other than sexual assault - I took what you wrote a little too literally perhaps and, I was genuinely curious if there was still some usage of the word in that sense.

I agree though, using the word in any other context seems pretty icky given that (I think) most people take it to mean 'sexual assault'. I already said it, but, there are so many other words to choose from that would be more accurate and less upsetting to others.

Total anecdotal evidence here, but just a sobering thought that hit me last night when I was thinking about this thread: of the four women I have seriously dated in my life, three were raped at some point and the fourth was molested as a child.

Including my college years, I've had six women who I would consider very close friends at one point or another. Of them, two were raped and two were sexually assaulted during their college years.

To my knowledge, neither of my sisters has had to deal with sexual assault or rape, but my mother was raped as a teenager.

I seriously question whether that "one in six" statistic is too conservative.

Farscry wrote:

I seriously question whether that "one in six" statistic is too conservative. :(

I've heard up to 1 in 3. My anecdotal evidence felt more like 5 of 6 when I was in college. I'm not as close to as many of my female friends at this point so I'm not as sure anymore. Regardless, it's f*cking everywhere.

Farscry wrote:

Total anecdotal evidence here, but just a sobering thought that hit me last night when I was thinking about this thread: of the four women I have seriously dated in my life, three were raped at some point and the fourth was molested as a child.

At the risk of turning this into anecdata, that is absolutely my experience too.

"What's the biggest threat to women? Men. What's the biggest threat to men? ...Heart disease."

clover wrote:

"What's the biggest threat to women? Men. What's the biggest threat to men? ...Heart disease."

So women should feed men more bacon?

Nevin73 wrote:
clover wrote:

"What's the biggest threat to women? Men. What's the biggest threat to men? ...Heart disease."

So women should feed men more bacon?

No, men should start eating fewer women. Attack the problem from both sides, right?

Spoiler:

Are cannabalism jokes in bad taste?

Spoiler:

And if so, what about puns that draw on cannablism?

Jonman wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:
clover wrote:

"What's the biggest threat to women? Men. What's the biggest threat to men? ...Heart disease."

So women should feed men more bacon?

No, men should start eating fewer women. Attack the problem from both sides, right?

Spoiler:

Are cannabalism jokes in bad taste?

Spoiler:

And if so, what about puns that draw on cannablism?

Spoiler:

This is where a well-seasoned comedian would have an advantage over you.

Tanglebones wrote:
Jonman wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:
clover wrote:

"What's the biggest threat to women? Men. What's the biggest threat to men? ...Heart disease."

So women should feed men more bacon?

No, men should start eating fewer women. Attack the problem from both sides, right?

Spoiler:

Are cannabalism jokes in bad taste?

Spoiler:

And if so, what about puns that draw on cannablism?

Spoiler:

This is where a well-seasoned comedian would have an advantage over you.

Spoiler:

/rimshot

The Baltimore Sun[/url]]
After four days and more than 20 hours of relentless questions about her medical history and motivations, her dance moves and underwear, the 21-year-old midshipman who has accused three former Naval Academy football players of raping her pleaded on Saturday for a day off from testimony. It was granted by the hearing's presiding officer but not before the request triggered more antipathy from defense attorneys, who accused the young woman of faking her exhaustion.

"What was she going to be doing anyway?" asked Ronald "Chip" Herrington, one of the defense attorneys for Eric Graham, a 21-year-old senior from Eight Mile, Ala. "Something more strenuous than sitting in a chair? We don't concede there's been any stress involved."

Jonman wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Total anecdotal evidence here, but just a sobering thought that hit me last night when I was thinking about this thread: of the four women I have seriously dated in my life, three were raped at some point and the fourth was molested as a child.

At the risk of turning this into anecdata, that is absolutely my experience too.

At the risk of sounding crass, it could also be a 'luck of the draw' situation. There may be some folks who have had 20 close women friends in their lives and none of them have been victims of sexual assault.

I'm curious, is there any demographical data about rape? Like, does it happen in higher frequency in certain populations, or is that kind of info totally irrelevant?